Indian nuclear submarines

[MonaLazy]

beautiful boat

Actually not. The outer hull should be smooth with no humps. Suffren class is a good example- & it is a mean feat of engineering to get that right.

Russians not being great designers opted for double hull designs which is to hide that inefficiency.


Any bumps/humps on surface distort water flow as it moves forward and when that interacts with propeller blades it creates noise which gives away your position to the enemy. No bump single hull submarine design is the gold standard of submarine engineering.

 

[fire starter]

Old system , they maybe are working on spherical sonar

Ultra low frequency conformal Array sonar has been developed along with flank Array and towed Array.

 

[InfinityWarrior Thanos]

The ‘K’ factor in the recent missile tests

India’s first SLBM provides the building blocks for new missiles allowing the DRDO self-sufficiency in missile technology

www.indiatoday.in

 

[InfinityWarrior Thanos]

The ‘K’ factor in the recent missile tests

India’s first SLBM provides the building blocks for new missiles allowing the DRDO self-sufficiency in missile technology

www.indiatoday.in

K 15 is now called B-5

 

[Gessler]

Since only 3 S5 are planned as of now . I don't think we will convert arihant to ssgn . Because using only 3 boats for deterrence is not sufficient. But this could change if more S5 class are ordered.

Yes but lot of factors go into this equation.

1) The number of hulls available at any given time
2) The frequency of refuel period (dependent on HEU enrichment level)

For example the new Dreadnaught class can make do with fewer missiles per boat than outgoing Vanguard due to life-of-type sealed reactors, which means the sub need not be taken out of service once every ~20 yrs or so for a 2-year period to refuel (or once every ~15 yrs or so in our case with 40% HEU).

3) The number of missiles per hull
4) The number of MIRVs per missile
5) The availability of other forms of deterrence

UK & France have no land based deterrence, while UK also doesn't have air-based one. We do. This also factors into the number of SSBNs required.

That said, I believe its too early to say whether S-5 class numbers could be 3 or 4 boats.

 

[Bhurki]

Imagine the last two submarines equipped with 16 K5 missiles carrying 96 MIRV. Enough for our bat munching neighbour.

The whole point of an SSBN force is to be survivable.

Why would you want to pack literally all nuclear warheads available with the navy to just one boat? Considering India has about 150 warheads in total.

It could meet an accident or an adversary hell bent on taking down this 1 boat to make sure the deterrant goes away.

All other countries packing 50+ warheads on a single boat either have done away with other legs of the triad (UK), have very limited use of these other legs (France - Asmpa making up less than 10%) or, either plan to have (China 400 and growing) or already have massive arsenals of warheads (US, Russia).

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Actually not. The outer hull should be smooth with no humps. Suffren class is a good example- & it is a mean feat of engineering to get that right.

View attachment 128566

Russians not being great designers opted for double hull designs which is to hide that inefficiency.


Any bumps/humps on surface distort water flow as it moves forward and when that interacts with propeller blades it creates noise which gives away your position to the enemy. No bump single hull submarine design is the gold standard of submarine engineering.

No you're wrong here. You are confusing SSNs with a SSBN. Those humps are a normal thing in a SSBN. SSBN's ICBM need those humps for structural support. Heck, even the britush Astute class SSNs have those humps. Here are some SSBNs (US, Russia, UK)

 

[Gessler]

So, when we do get the larger boats with 8 silos, rest assured we will let the world know. There should be ambiguity regarding our policy & intent, but not regarding our capabilities.

By the way, as I was saying.

 

[IndianHawk]

Yes but lot of factors go into this equation.

1) The number of hulls available at any given time
2) The frequency of refuel period (dependent on HEU enrichment level)

For example the new Dreadnaught class can make do with fewer missiles per boat than outgoing Vanguard due to life-of-type sealed reactors, which means the sub need not be taken out of service once every ~20 yrs or so for a 2-year period to refuel (or once every ~15 yrs or so in our case with 40% HEU).

3) The number of missiles per hull
4) The number of MIRVs per missile
5) The availability of other forms of deterrence

UK & France have no land based deterrence, while UK also doesn't have air-based one. We do. This also factors into the number of SSBNs required.

That said, I believe its too early to say whether S-5 class numbers could be 3 or 4 boats.

UK and France do not face direct adverseris in their backwaters . Our SSBN will be tracked by both porkistan and china regularly. Chinese will have access to large parts of Arabian sea as they will be present on pork naval bases ( might even operate new porky submarines built by chin).

In bay of Bengal too chinese will spy with Myanmar subs and Bangladesh subs in future.

So we might require more SSBN to disperse deterrence far and wide.

As chinese develope missile defence we will need even more warheads means even more missiles with mirv to keep threat proportional lest they feel overconfident. So requirement for more missiles and boats will go up with time not less untill we develop hypersonic nuke delivery methods.

Our air bases deterrence is good for porkistan but can't hit eastern chinese population centres. We need SSBN for that.

So all in all I believe we will need atleast 6-8 SSBN at the very least .

 

[Vamsi]

Actually not. The outer hull should be smooth with no humps. Suffren class is a good example- & it is a mean feat of engineering to get that right.

View attachment 128566

Russians not being great designers opted for double hull designs which is to hide that inefficiency.


Any bumps/humps on surface distort water flow as it moves forward and when that interacts with propeller blades it creates noise which gives away your position to the enemy. No bump single hull submarine design is the gold standard of submarine engineering.

Bro , this is first time we build a Nuke boat bro, we will improve next time ,our S-5 class will be even more beautiful

 

[IndianHawk]

The whole point of an SSBN force is to be survivable.

Why would you want to pack literally all nuclear warheads available with the navy to just one boat? Considering India has about 150 warheads in total.

It could meet an accident or an adversary hell bent on taking down this 1 boat to make sure the deterrant goes away.

All other countries packing 50+ warheads on a single boat either have done away with other legs of the triad (UK), have very limited use of these other legs (France - Asmpa making up less than 10%) or, either plan to have (China 400 and growing) or already have massive arsenals of warheads (US, Russia).

Our arsenal is constantly growing. By external estimates which are pretty conservative to begun with we are adding 10-20 warheads per year. Let's stick with lower number and add just 10 warheads per year.

An SSBN takes almost 6-8 years to build and enter service. First S5 will enter service by 2030 all three will be in service only by 2035-40. In those 20 years we will add 200 warheads to our inventory very conservatively. So we can pack all 3 S5 class with 50+ nukes easily. While still additing more warheads to arihant class by mirv.

BTW now our uranium reserves equal to that of usa thanks to discovery in Andhra Pradesh. So with growing economy we can build more and more warheads if required.

 

[Vamsi]

Our arsenal is constantly growing. By external estimates which are pretty conservative to begun with we are adding 10-20 warheads per year. Let's stick with lower number and add just 10 warheads per year.

An SSBN takes almost 6-8 years to build and enter service. First S5 will enter service by 2030 all three will be in service only by 2035-40. In those 20 years we will add 200 warheads to our inventory very conservatively. So we can pack all 3 S5 class with 50+ nukes easily. While still additing more warheads to arihant class by mirv.

BTW now our uranium reserves equal to that of usa thanks to discovery in Andhra Pradesh. So with growing economy we can build more and more warheads if required.

But uncle Sam is trying very hard to sabotage our plans to mine uranium in nalla mala forests in the name of EnVirOnMeNtaL protests .

 

[IndianHawk]

But uncle Sam is trying very hard to sabotage our plans to mine uranium in nalla mala forests in the name of EnVirOnMeNtaL protests .

That's why we keep buying russian uranium for nuke plants. And uncle Sam keeps crying about it .

 

[MonaLazy]

Those humps are a normal thing in a SSBN.

May be these can help you refine your taste, validation for everything i said can be found in here (why double hulls are poor design and why surface should be smooth) and these are people that know what they are talking about, not someone posting outdated submarine pictures from the internet:



Ohio class-

Typhoon

Look ma, no hump!!

Humps could be normal but the physics is same no? I understand that hunter killer SSNs need to do business in super contested waters where rival subs are prowling. But SSBNs operate in areas of very less traffic- operationally they only need to hide their location to maintain deterrent and fulfill their mission. Also that ICBMs are tall and may not fit in smaller dia hull of host sub. But these are all compromises over the ideal shape. I'm trying to get across is what a good sub design might be. SLBMs must be miniaturised to achieve that ultimate solution. Even an SSBN benefits from stealth resulting from smoother hull- can easily transit busy sea lanes undetected otherwise vulnerable when exiting home port and at natural choke points in the sea.

Bro , this is first time we build a Nuke boat bro, we will improve next time ,our S-5 class will be even more beautiful

C'mon! I'm the last person to discourage our own R&D and products. Very appreciative of the efforts of IN & GoI here- just saying there's many miles to go. Besides, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder!

 

[MonaLazy]

But uncle Sam is trying very hard to sabotage our plans to mine uranium in nalla mala forests in the name of EnVirOnMeNtaL protests .

Why we are letting Uncle slap us inside our house is beyond me! Maybe we need to be more assertive with our national interest?

 

[Kalkioftoday]

May be these can help you refine your taste, validation for everything i said can be found in here (why double hulls are poor design and why surface should be smooth) and these are people that know what they are talking about, not someone posting outdated submarine pictures from the internet:



Ohio class-
View attachment 128632

Typhoon
View attachment 128633

Look ma, no hump!!

Humps could be normal but the physics is same no? I understand that hunter killer SSNs need to do business in super contested waters where rival subs are prowling. But SSBNs operate in areas of very less traffic- operationally they only need to hide their location to maintain deterrent and fulfill their mission. Also that ICBMs are tall and may not fit in smaller dia hull of host sub. But these are all compromises over the ideal shape. I'm trying to get across is what a good sub design might be. SLBMs must be miniaturised to achieve that ultimate solution. Even an SSBN benefits from stealth resulting from smoother hull- can easily transit busy sea lanes undetected otherwise vulnerable when exiting home port and at natural choke points in the sea.



C'mon! I'm the last person to discourage our own R&D and products. Very appreciative of the efforts of IN & GoI here- just saying there's many miles to go. Besides, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder!

Ohio class-

Bruh The first picture of of my previous reply is a ohio class ssbn and it has a hump. The picture you've shared also has a hump you can clearly see that but it's not that clearly visible because of the camera angle. And also the Yasen- M is a SSN, not a SSBN. And for the typhoon, the ICBM tubes are supported by the two living compartment tube(marked in red). Whereas in a normal SSBN where the width of the SSBN is not even close to the typhoon, the ICBMs tubes are in the same(living) compartment and so to support those ICBM's enormous thrust they have humps

 

[MonaLazy]

Bruh The first picture of of my previous reply is a ohio class ssbn and it has a hump. The picture you've shared also has a hump you can clearly see that but it's not that clearly visible because of the camera angle. And also the Yasen- M is a SSN, not a SSBN. And for the typhoon, the ICBM tubes are supported by the two living compartment tube(marked in red). Whereas in a normal SSBN where the width of the SSBN is not even close to the typhoon, the ICBMs tubes are in the same(living) compartment and so to support those ICBM's enormous thrust they have humps

View attachment 128646

There is a basic mistake in your assumptions. The primary reason for hump is not structural support to missile tubes- it is the length of the SLBM itself for that awesome '0000s of kms range. What I'm saying is- that's a compromise situation and can be bettered with miniaturisation with better propellent etc etc to achieve the ideal SSBN shape- smooth like Hema Malini's cheeks. If after seeing those two videos you still don't get it then I'm not sure how i can help.

SSBN/SSN are man made distinctions that are not respected by underwater physics. You have to be stealthier by design to increase survivability which is key for relatively slow moving SSBN. So what's good for SSN is good for SSBN too.

 

[THESIS THORON]

defance exfart anal-ysis

he thinks ssbn is of 12000 ton disp

 

[Vamsi]

defance exfart anal-ysis

he thinks ssbn is of 12000 ton disp

Each passing day he is becoming more & more like the abdul in PeeDeeEff

 

[THESIS THORON]

Each passing day he is becoming more & more like the abdul in PeeDeeEff

he is talking about upsizing the 80mw reactor to 200mw
exfart doesn't know that it will need totally different design

it is like making kaveri from manik engine