Indian Navy to equip it's aircraft carriers with EMALS
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Their new carrier has it
They are deploying it in nothing but the world's best aircraft carrier class. The Gerald R Ford class. look it up.
It is extremely awesome that we have a chance to have it on our own carrier. We should go with it at all costs.
Lions Of Punjab
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INS VISHAL : first CATOBAR aircraft carrier
With the recent visit of US President Barack Obama, India got great deals in its bag. One of them is the sophisticated and critical technology needed for our aircraft carriers. The new-generation catapult, Electro-Magnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) is featuring with our domestically built second aircraft carrier INS VISHAL or IAC II. We have got exactly what we needed, plus India may also buy V-22 Osprey aircrafts which are capable of Vertical Take Off and Landing (VTOL) and Short Take Off and Landing (STOL).
CATOBAR vs STOBAR :
In 1989 India announced a plan to replace its ageing British-built aircraft carriers, Vikrant and Viraat, with two new Aircraft Carriers. The first ship of the class, INS Vikrant also called as IAC I features a STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) configuration with a ski-jump. The "ski-jump" ramp in the carrier is to assist in the take off of conventional fixed-wing aircraft, and use "trap wires" to help an aircraft land. It is designed mainly for lighter aircrafts like Mikoyan Mig-29k and HAL Tejas Mark II. Generally, STOBAR carriers are easy to operate and easy to maintain, and have low operating cost.
As the ship is based on STOBAR, it has its own drawbacks. STOBAR aircraft carriers have to maintain speeds of 20-30 knots to generate wind over deck to support the mission. In other words, it can not support launch missions in still conditions. It is also difficult to operate bulky airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft using this system which can make the carrier very vulnerable during wartime. So the need is to find solutions for all these problems, and the answer is Catapult Assisted Take-Off, Barrier Assisted Recovery (CATOBAR).
CATOBAR uses "trap lines" to stop an aircraft while landing, and a catapult to help it launch. Initially there were reports that the Indian Navy is going with steam catapult for INS Vishal. A steam catapult uses more than 600 kg of steam to launch an aircraft. Plus there is a requirement of hydraulics and oils, water to break the catapult, and associated pumps, motors and control systems.
The result is a large, heavy, maintenance intensive system which requires more manpower. On the other hand, EMALS uses an approach analogous to an electromagnetic railgun results to accelerate the shuttle that holds the aircraft.
The United Stated navy is the most experienced player in CATOBAR carriers, but all their carriers feature steam catapult system. EMALS is featuring in their new Ford class carrier, Gerald R. Ford which costs around whooping $13 billion.
CATOBAR offers more options such as supporting operations of heavier fighters, AEW aircraft and, crucially, unmanned combat air vehicles (UCAVs), when compared with STOBAR systems. This will give Indian Navy an upper hand in the region by expanding their mission envelope with UCAVs, using the pilotless aircraft for high-risk reconnaissance and suppression of enemy air defences.
THE INS VISHAL :
INS Vishal is going to be expensive as compared to the other aircraft carriers we have. It is very hard to believe from the recent reports that it will be a conventional – powered aircraft carrier. INS Vishal is still 10 to 12 years away from reality, so India has enough time to go for a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. All US Navy's CATOBAR based Nimitz class aircraft carriers are nuclear powered. EMALS systems may need 60 MW of electricity at its peak and the 3 seconds in which one aircraft will be launched, that amount of energy could power 12000 homes.
A nuclear powered aircraft carrier is the most suitable option for the Indian navy, which will also give us outstanding power projection over a conventional aircraft carrier. We have gained some experience from INS Arihant in this field, though a submarine and an aircraft carrier are totally two different structures.
The designing of INS Vishal is also going to be a tough job for 'Directorate of Naval Design' (DND) of the Indian Navy.
Though DND has successfully designed INS Vikrant, but this is totally a new breed which needs sleek, precise and sophisticated design for faultless construction. It would be a boon for the DND if the United States could also assist India in designing of the aircraft carrier, INS Vishal. However there is nothing clear about the fighter aircraft, which will be deployed on INS Vishal.
INS Vishal will be the future of a new brand of aircraft carriers. It will dominate the Indian ocean and give India a giant leap over the Chinese. From here you can see the Indian Navy become a formidable true blue water navy capable of projecting deadly force across the Indian ocean and beyond.
Defence News - INS VISHAL : India's 1st Catobar Aircraft Carrier
With the recent visit of US President Barack Obama, India got great deals in its bag. One of them is the sophisticated and critical technology needed for our aircraft carriers. The new-generation catapult, Electro-Magnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) is featuring with our domestically built second aircraft carrier INS VISHAL or IAC II. We have got exactly what we needed, plus India may also buy V-22 Osprey aircrafts which are capable of Vertical Take Off and Landing (VTOL) and Short Take Off and Landing (STOL).
CATOBAR vs STOBAR :
In 1989 India announced a plan to replace its ageing British-built aircraft carriers, Vikrant and Viraat, with two new Aircraft Carriers. The first ship of the class, INS Vikrant also called as IAC I features a STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) configuration with a ski-jump. The "ski-jump" ramp in the carrier is to assist in the take off of conventional fixed-wing aircraft, and use "trap wires" to help an aircraft land. It is designed mainly for lighter aircrafts like Mikoyan Mig-29k and HAL Tejas Mark II. Generally, STOBAR carriers are easy to operate and easy to maintain, and have low operating cost.
As the ship is based on STOBAR, it has its own drawbacks. STOBAR aircraft carriers have to maintain speeds of 20-30 knots to generate wind over deck to support the mission. In other words, it can not support launch missions in still conditions. It is also difficult to operate bulky airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft using this system which can make the carrier very vulnerable during wartime. So the need is to find solutions for all these problems, and the answer is Catapult Assisted Take-Off, Barrier Assisted Recovery (CATOBAR).
CATOBAR uses "trap lines" to stop an aircraft while landing, and a catapult to help it launch. Initially there were reports that the Indian Navy is going with steam catapult for INS Vishal. A steam catapult uses more than 600 kg of steam to launch an aircraft. Plus there is a requirement of hydraulics and oils, water to break the catapult, and associated pumps, motors and control systems.
The result is a large, heavy, maintenance intensive system which requires more manpower. On the other hand, EMALS uses an approach analogous to an electromagnetic railgun results to accelerate the shuttle that holds the aircraft.
The United Stated navy is the most experienced player in CATOBAR carriers, but all their carriers feature steam catapult system. EMALS is featuring in their new Ford class carrier, Gerald R. Ford which costs around whooping $13 billion.
CATOBAR offers more options such as supporting operations of heavier fighters, AEW aircraft and, crucially, unmanned combat air vehicles (UCAVs), when compared with STOBAR systems. This will give Indian Navy an upper hand in the region by expanding their mission envelope with UCAVs, using the pilotless aircraft for high-risk reconnaissance and suppression of enemy air defences.
THE INS VISHAL :
INS Vishal is going to be expensive as compared to the other aircraft carriers we have. It is very hard to believe from the recent reports that it will be a conventional – powered aircraft carrier. INS Vishal is still 10 to 12 years away from reality, so India has enough time to go for a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. All US Navy's CATOBAR based Nimitz class aircraft carriers are nuclear powered. EMALS systems may need 60 MW of electricity at its peak and the 3 seconds in which one aircraft will be launched, that amount of energy could power 12000 homes.
A nuclear powered aircraft carrier is the most suitable option for the Indian navy, which will also give us outstanding power projection over a conventional aircraft carrier. We have gained some experience from INS Arihant in this field, though a submarine and an aircraft carrier are totally two different structures.
The designing of INS Vishal is also going to be a tough job for 'Directorate of Naval Design' (DND) of the Indian Navy.
Though DND has successfully designed INS Vikrant, but this is totally a new breed which needs sleek, precise and sophisticated design for faultless construction. It would be a boon for the DND if the United States could also assist India in designing of the aircraft carrier, INS Vishal. However there is nothing clear about the fighter aircraft, which will be deployed on INS Vishal.
INS Vishal will be the future of a new brand of aircraft carriers. It will dominate the Indian ocean and give India a giant leap over the Chinese. From here you can see the Indian Navy become a formidable true blue water navy capable of projecting deadly force across the Indian ocean and beyond.
Defence News - INS VISHAL : India's 1st Catobar Aircraft Carrier
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how much does it costs?
Lions Of Punjab
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India to get US military tech in 3 key areas
India and the US have agreed to jointly develop and produce cutting-edge military equipment to enhance the reach and muscle of the Indian military.
The Pentagon has agreed to share with New Delhi the electro-magnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS), hot engine and extended battery man pack technologies under the defence trade and technology initiative, government sources said Monday.
The world's biggest importer of weapons, India is looking to promote its domestic arms industry and sharing of technology is a vital part of it.
The deal will be inked when US under secretary for acquisition, technology and logistics Frank Kendall arrives in the Capital on February 24. He was in India in January as well to give final touches to defence issues ahead of US President Barack Obama's Republic Day visit.
Currently being developed by General Atomics, EMALS technology will replace the steam catapults used to launch jets from aircraft carriers. The technology was offered by Obama to Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his Washington trip in September.
EMALS will not only allow more sorties and reduce the thermal signature of an aircraft carrier but will also provide launch capability for unmanned aerial vehicles, sources said. The system is low on maintenance and energy consumption. India's two aircraft carriers — INS Viraat and INS Vikramaditya — use steam catapults.
General Electric's hot-engine technology permits fighter jets to operate in hot weather conditions without any possibility of an engine failure. This next generation technology is needed in the hot and dry climate of Rajasthan and Gujarat as well as parts of Haryana and Punjab.
Extended battery packs increase the survivability of ground troops and enhances their effectiveness as platoons remain in touch with commanders for extended periods of time without fear of batteries running out. The battery pack has been developed by General Dynamics, an American aerospace and defence company.
Boosting defence production through foreign investors and technology is part of Modi's ambitious Make in India initiative.
India, which buys 65% of its weapons from abroad, is expected to spend an estimated $250 billion in the next decade to modernise its military. The US has edged out Russia and Israel to emerge as India's biggest arms supplier in the last three years — 2011-14.
India to get US military tech in 3 key areas | idrw.org
India and the US have agreed to jointly develop and produce cutting-edge military equipment to enhance the reach and muscle of the Indian military.
The Pentagon has agreed to share with New Delhi the electro-magnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS), hot engine and extended battery man pack technologies under the defence trade and technology initiative, government sources said Monday.
The world's biggest importer of weapons, India is looking to promote its domestic arms industry and sharing of technology is a vital part of it.
The deal will be inked when US under secretary for acquisition, technology and logistics Frank Kendall arrives in the Capital on February 24. He was in India in January as well to give final touches to defence issues ahead of US President Barack Obama's Republic Day visit.
Currently being developed by General Atomics, EMALS technology will replace the steam catapults used to launch jets from aircraft carriers. The technology was offered by Obama to Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his Washington trip in September.
EMALS will not only allow more sorties and reduce the thermal signature of an aircraft carrier but will also provide launch capability for unmanned aerial vehicles, sources said. The system is low on maintenance and energy consumption. India's two aircraft carriers — INS Viraat and INS Vikramaditya — use steam catapults.
General Electric's hot-engine technology permits fighter jets to operate in hot weather conditions without any possibility of an engine failure. This next generation technology is needed in the hot and dry climate of Rajasthan and Gujarat as well as parts of Haryana and Punjab.
Extended battery packs increase the survivability of ground troops and enhances their effectiveness as platoons remain in touch with commanders for extended periods of time without fear of batteries running out. The battery pack has been developed by General Dynamics, an American aerospace and defence company.
Boosting defence production through foreign investors and technology is part of Modi's ambitious Make in India initiative.
India, which buys 65% of its weapons from abroad, is expected to spend an estimated $250 billion in the next decade to modernise its military. The US has edged out Russia and Israel to emerge as India's biggest arms supplier in the last three years — 2011-14.
India to get US military tech in 3 key areas | idrw.org
sorcerer
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Navy Jets Carrying Extra Fuel Can't Launch from New Aircraft Carrier
The high-tech catapult system on the United States Navy's newest aircraft carrier causes too much wear to the top warplanes if the aircraft are carrying fuel tanks needed to extend their flight range, prohibiting the Navy from launching the jets at all.
Until it is corrected, the deficiency would "preclude the Navy from conducting normal operations" on the USS Gerald R. Ford, Air Force Maj. Eric Badger, spokesman for the Pentagon's testing office, said in an email to Bloomberg News.
In addition to troubles with the catapult system, there are also flaws in the ship's landing system. Even more needed improvements are being delayed until after the ship is delivered, which must happen by March 2016 to stay within a $12.9 billion cap on construction costs imposed by Congress.
The USS Gerald R. Ford is the first in a new class of aircraft carriers being built by Newport News, Virginia-based Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc.
The tanks that make extended flights possible for two models of the F/A-18 – the Super Hornet fighter and the Growler jamming aircraft – can carry an extra 480 gallons of fuel.
But the aircraft carrier's electromagnetic launch system puts more stress on the tanks than older steam-powered catapults, and that would cause premature damage to the planes, according test office and Navy documents obtained by Bloomberg.
According to a September 5 report by the Naval Air Systems Command, "the overstress condition will eliminate the employment of external fuel tanks" that are "an essential element" of combat loads for many Super Hornets and most Growler jammer jets.
The three-vessel Ford class is the first major new design for a carrier since the 1960's-era Nimitz class and is projected to cost $40 billion. The launch system is estimated at an additional $3.2 billion, Bloomberg reported.
New launch system software is designed to reduce wear on the tanks by adjusting the power exerted during launch, the Navy said. But that software will not be installed and tested onboard the Ford until after the ship is delivered in March of next year.
"It's a big deal to fix it, but the Navy thinks it can be done," Mark Gunzinger, an air-power analyst with the nonpartisan Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington, said in an e-mail to Bloomberg.
Although the Pentagon for at least six months has been aware of deficiencies in the launch system – one in a list of shortcomings for the class of ships – the problems are just now being made public.
In a February 23 memo, Michael Gilmore, the Pentagon's test director, warned Frank Kendall, the Defense Department's weapons buyer, that the launch system deficiency "and possible solutions could significantly limit the carrier's" required rate for launching and recovering aircraft.
The issue, however, will not delay a scheduled April 8 Pentagon meeting to review awarding a potential $4 billion construction contract to Huntington Ingalls for the next carrier, the John F. Kennedy, an anonymous defense official told Bloomberg.
Read more: Navy Jets Carrying Extra Fuel Can't Launch from New Aircraft Carrier / Sputnik International
The high-tech catapult system on the United States Navy's newest aircraft carrier causes too much wear to the top warplanes if the aircraft are carrying fuel tanks needed to extend their flight range, prohibiting the Navy from launching the jets at all.
Until it is corrected, the deficiency would "preclude the Navy from conducting normal operations" on the USS Gerald R. Ford, Air Force Maj. Eric Badger, spokesman for the Pentagon's testing office, said in an email to Bloomberg News.
In addition to troubles with the catapult system, there are also flaws in the ship's landing system. Even more needed improvements are being delayed until after the ship is delivered, which must happen by March 2016 to stay within a $12.9 billion cap on construction costs imposed by Congress.
The USS Gerald R. Ford is the first in a new class of aircraft carriers being built by Newport News, Virginia-based Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc.
The tanks that make extended flights possible for two models of the F/A-18 – the Super Hornet fighter and the Growler jamming aircraft – can carry an extra 480 gallons of fuel.
But the aircraft carrier's electromagnetic launch system puts more stress on the tanks than older steam-powered catapults, and that would cause premature damage to the planes, according test office and Navy documents obtained by Bloomberg.
According to a September 5 report by the Naval Air Systems Command, "the overstress condition will eliminate the employment of external fuel tanks" that are "an essential element" of combat loads for many Super Hornets and most Growler jammer jets.
The three-vessel Ford class is the first major new design for a carrier since the 1960's-era Nimitz class and is projected to cost $40 billion. The launch system is estimated at an additional $3.2 billion, Bloomberg reported.
New launch system software is designed to reduce wear on the tanks by adjusting the power exerted during launch, the Navy said. But that software will not be installed and tested onboard the Ford until after the ship is delivered in March of next year.
"It's a big deal to fix it, but the Navy thinks it can be done," Mark Gunzinger, an air-power analyst with the nonpartisan Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington, said in an e-mail to Bloomberg.
Although the Pentagon for at least six months has been aware of deficiencies in the launch system – one in a list of shortcomings for the class of ships – the problems are just now being made public.
In a February 23 memo, Michael Gilmore, the Pentagon's test director, warned Frank Kendall, the Defense Department's weapons buyer, that the launch system deficiency "and possible solutions could significantly limit the carrier's" required rate for launching and recovering aircraft.
The issue, however, will not delay a scheduled April 8 Pentagon meeting to review awarding a potential $4 billion construction contract to Huntington Ingalls for the next carrier, the John F. Kennedy, an anonymous defense official told Bloomberg.
Read more: Navy Jets Carrying Extra Fuel Can't Launch from New Aircraft Carrier / Sputnik International
Lions Of Punjab
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US says would back India buying US aircraft carrier technology
The US government would support selling General Atomics` electromagnetic launching system for aircraft carriers, and other key technologies, to India, the Pentagon`s chief weapons buyer told Reuters on Friday.
Defense Undersecretary Frank Kendall, who heads a joint U.S.-India defence trade and technology effort, said he was optimistic about the two countries` efforts to cooperate on a planned aircraft carrier for India.
"I`m optimistic about cooperating with them on that," Kendall told Reuters in an interview, when asked about the possibility of India acquiring the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) built by privately held General Atomics, which is based in San Diego, California.
"They're going to have to make their own decision about what technology they want, but I don`t see any fundamental obstacles to them acquiring some of our carrier technologies, if they want them," he said.
India wants to use state-of-the-art U.S. technology to boost the range and potency of a planned aircraft carrier, in a move that would deepen cooperation between both countries and counter China`s military influence in the region.
General Atomics, which has also proposed selling the system to Brazil, says selling the system to foreign countries could help lower the cost of installing the system on the new Gerald R. Ford class of U.S. Navy aircraft carriers being built by Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc .
The new system helps jets launch off a flat deck at a faster rate and with less fatigue to the aircraft.
Kendall said the issue would be addressed by a new working group that is being set up by the two countries.
The Pentagon recently appointed Rear Admiral Thomas Moore, the Navy`s two-star program executive officer for aircraft carriers, to lead the U.S. part of the working group, said Pentagon spokeswoman Maureen Schumann.
Moore will work with his Indian counterpart, Rear Admiral-select Surendra Ahuja, a former Indian test pilot, to set up the first meeting of the group in the next couple of months.
US says would back India buying US aircraft carrier technology - idrw.orgidrw.org
The US government would support selling General Atomics` electromagnetic launching system for aircraft carriers, and other key technologies, to India, the Pentagon`s chief weapons buyer told Reuters on Friday.
Defense Undersecretary Frank Kendall, who heads a joint U.S.-India defence trade and technology effort, said he was optimistic about the two countries` efforts to cooperate on a planned aircraft carrier for India.
"I`m optimistic about cooperating with them on that," Kendall told Reuters in an interview, when asked about the possibility of India acquiring the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) built by privately held General Atomics, which is based in San Diego, California.
"They're going to have to make their own decision about what technology they want, but I don`t see any fundamental obstacles to them acquiring some of our carrier technologies, if they want them," he said.
India wants to use state-of-the-art U.S. technology to boost the range and potency of a planned aircraft carrier, in a move that would deepen cooperation between both countries and counter China`s military influence in the region.
General Atomics, which has also proposed selling the system to Brazil, says selling the system to foreign countries could help lower the cost of installing the system on the new Gerald R. Ford class of U.S. Navy aircraft carriers being built by Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc .
The new system helps jets launch off a flat deck at a faster rate and with less fatigue to the aircraft.
Kendall said the issue would be addressed by a new working group that is being set up by the two countries.
The Pentagon recently appointed Rear Admiral Thomas Moore, the Navy`s two-star program executive officer for aircraft carriers, to lead the U.S. part of the working group, said Pentagon spokeswoman Maureen Schumann.
Moore will work with his Indian counterpart, Rear Admiral-select Surendra Ahuja, a former Indian test pilot, to set up the first meeting of the group in the next couple of months.
US says would back India buying US aircraft carrier technology - idrw.orgidrw.org
Illusive
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Why Naval fighters like Mig29K cant take off from catapults, it has a strong undercarriage, just need to modify the front landing gear to accommodate the hook. And if the reason is complete redesign issue, why wasn't it taken into consideration into 1st place, given India wanted to field multiple carriers in the future.
Did our planners think Mig29k would be obsolete by the time Vishal comes?
Did our planners think Mig29k would be obsolete by the time Vishal comes?
pmaitra
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I was under the impression that INS Vishal was meant to carry LCA and AMCA. We have no sight of AMCA, so it is unclear whether MiG-29K will be part of the mix. There is no confirmed news as to what, along with LCA, will be on INS Vishal.
Illusive
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LCA would be Catobar? Anyways this is sheer shortsightedness, Navy should be proactive and plan for NAMCA, there has been no mention on that regard yet. The only other option could be RafaleM which should not be our goal.
pmaitra
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Nope. LCA would not be CATOBAR, at least from what I know. Generally, the ship moves forward while the planes take-off, thus giving an additional push to get the planes some extra speed, and thereby, extra lift. With favourable winds blowing from bow to stern (front to back), the ship could be stationary and the planes could still take off.
I think, for LCA, it can take off from INS Vishal even if it is not moving and there is no wind in any direction.
Illusive
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If LCA is also not catobar, then we'd be looking into scenario like RN where the carrier is ready and no aircrafts to fly. Anyways my question was can Mig29k or NLCAmk2 be converted to catobar aircrafts in a short period if the necessity arises. I mean the undercarriage is already strong , all you need to do is modify the front gear, or is there something i am missing.
pmaitra
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Illusive
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We need it if Vishal is catobar or Emals which seems to be the case given how closely IN is working with USN for catobar training.
pmaitra
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Let's see the numbers:
INS Vishal length: 980 ft.
Sukhoi-27 takeoff length: 640 ft ground roll @ 70,990lb T-O weight with 15kn WOD.
MiG-29K take off length: 640 ft ground roll @ 49,400lb T-O weight.
P.S.: Got it from another forum but cannot link another forum.
I wouldn't call it short-sightedness. The designers could not have predicted India would be getting such technology from the US. Therefore, they based their designs on the assumption that India will not have access to such technologies. If India is getting CATOBAR technology now, then it is an added bonus, but that the designers assumed there would be no CATOBAR, indicates that they played it safe and I applaud them for that.
Note that steam CATOBAR is simpler but is easier to operate if the powerplant is a nuclear reactor. For conventionally powered ACs, a steam catapult is a luxury, and an electromagnetic catapult is technologically challenging.
akshay m
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i think,
the question is when can we expect the vishal.
i think not before 2030.
one source said that the IN doesn't expect it by 2033
mig29k will be obselete by that time.
even the Vikrant is delayed again
Saurav Jha who visited CSL said that it won't be possible for the carrier to venture out for sea trials by 2016 end, for the carrier to be commisioned by atleast the end of 2017.
he said that it is doubtful that she will be commisioned even in 2018 -2019.
on the positive side the propellers will be fitted out by the end of this year,
and the russians will deliver the arresting gear and related hydraulics by mid 2016
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