Indian Navy ASW discussion: capabilities, tactics and equipment

aditya g

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I am creating this thread to track and discuss Anti-Submarine Warfare in the Indian Navy. Arguably submarines are the biggest threat to our navy as we have a very capable surface warfare capability.

Let me start of with this well timed article by Rajit Ojha;

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/indian-navy-submarines-asw-helicopters-warfare/story/1/16446.html

Yes, the P-8I has significantly better ASW technology - sonobuoys and acoustic signal processing capabilities - than the legacy Soviet/Russian platforms in Indian inventory. The trouble is with only 12 P-8Is currently contracted that isn’t even a 1:1 replacement for the 13 aircraft (8 Tu-142s + 5 IL-38s) it intends to replace.

Also while unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) can plug some of the gaps in the maritime patrol role, they can’t kill submarines.

So what about the new towed array sonars on the latest ships like the Kolkata-class which promises radically improved detection ranges of hostile submarines? Embarrassingly, if these ships were to detect one at distance, they would not have an onboard ASW helicopter to kill it.

It is our botched procurement of ASW helicopters to both replace and expand the existing fleet that is at the crux of the ASW crisis. Purchases of 16 Sikorsky S-70B are stalled due to price escalation issues and a larger tender for multi-role helicopters capable of the ASW role stands derailed partly due to the Agusta scandal.

The lack of shipborne ASW helicopters is especially crippling in what is termed as “Blue water ASW” - when ships operate far away from territorial waters in international, and in times of war also enemy waters. Being far from their own bases limits the availability and time land-based aircraft like the P-8I can actually spend hunting for enemy submarines (“time on-station”).

The Navy recognised the importance of shipborne ASW helicopters way back in the 1970s when designing the Godavari-class frigate. It specified that the ship carry not one but two of the type, if so required. This requirement continued with the Delhi and Kolkata-class destroyers.


Major navies like ours have long held that the best way to hunt submarines - arguably the toughest mission in naval warfare - is through a complex choreography of planes, shipborne helicopters and surface ships with the odd submarine thrown in. By our procurement bungling however we have taken out a key member from the submarine killing team and shifted the odds decisively in the enemy submarine’s favour.

More intangible but equally damaging is the loss of proficiency in ASW among the naval personnel who are unable to train due to lack of modern ASW helicopters. Most analysts miss out on the skill erosion aspect, assuming that capabilities are purely a function of hardware and that personnel can be trained in a flash in this most specialised of disciplines.

The cold reality is that even if miraculously dozens of ASW choppers would be procured within the next couple of years, it would take the better part of a decade for the operators to reach the desired level of proficiency.
 

aditya g

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HAPP, Tiruchi develops indigenous version of RGB 60 for Indian Navy

STAFF REPORTER
TIRUCHI MARCH 18, 2010 18:51 IST
UPDATED: MARCH 18, 2010 18:52 IST



The HAPP (Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project), Tiruchi, has developed an indigenised version of the Russian Anti-Submarine Rocket Guided Bomb 60 (RGB 60), for catering to the needs of Indian Navy.

The 110 kg RGB 60 rocket developed through in-house Research and Development process within a duration of one year, has been designed to deliver a war head mass of 25 kg to a range of 5.8 km within ten seconds. The rocket is fired in formations from the RBU 6000 (Rocketnaya Bombometnaya Ustanovka) Rocket Depth Bomb Launcher mounted on ship.

The first batch of 20 indigenously manufactured and assembled RGB 60 rockets will shortly be despatched for test trials with support from the officers and staff of the NAI (Naval Armament Inspectorate) detachment of CINA (Chief Inspectorate of Naval Armaments), the HAPP General Manager M. Ravi told presspersons here on Thursday. The hardware manufactured by HAPP will be filed with high explosives and propellents, and the fully charged Rocket will be issued to the Navy by AF Khadki, a Sister Ordnance Factory, he said.

One of the 41 Ordnance factories under the Director General of Ordnance Factories, Ordnance Factory Board, the HAPP, a production unit primarily engaged in the manufacture of High Kinetic Energy Anti Tank Projectiles of different calibers for use as Tank ammunition and various other ammunition items, successfully developed the smaller range RGB - 12 Rocket with 1.5 km range last year. Ten RGB 12 Rockets were now in advanced stage of test trials, Mr. Ravi said, exuding confidence that the bulk production of these two varieties of rockets could be started at the HAPP by this year-end. The indigenisation will reflect in enormous foreign exchange saving, he said.

On the on-going R & D initiatives and expansion plans, Mr. Ravi said the HAPP was in the process of manufacturing ammunition required for the shoulder-fired Carl Gustav rocket launcher, and co-production of125 mm IMI. The HAPP was one among the 12 ordnance factories where facilities will be expanded for scaling up manufacture of Pinaka rockets to the extent of fulfilling entire requirement of the Army, he said.

As part of celebration of the Ordnance Factories Day, Mr. Ravi earlier inaugurated an exhibition featuring the models of the RGB 60 and RGB12 and photos displaying various important events and milestones in the history of HAPP.
 

bipin

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On visiting http://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-submarines.asp you will find that India has small submarine fleet, compared to other countries. Given that India has a large coastline and depends on ocean waters for its economy, it needs to defend them well. And although no armed conflicts are happening in our waters now, to expect the same in future is just wishful thinking. So I ask few questions to the members:
  1. What is the ideal number of subs (nuclear/non-nuclear/total) in navy in future say in 2020, 2030, 2040 ? Things to consider - number of Pak subs, Chinese patrols/interference in IOR, ageing Indian subs etc.
  2. Best way to achieve that number ? How to do it - indigenous/ import/ allly patrols ? Considerations - SSBNs very expensive to import. Imports take longer.
Also discuss other possible roles for Indian Navy subs like positioning them in SCS, provide assistance to Taiwan, HongKong.
 

Srinivas_K

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100


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Shashank Sharma

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I think the ideal would be to have 50 subs. We should also have Naval overseas bases in Eastern Africa and South East Asia.
 

Cutting Edge 2

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On visiting http://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-submarines.asp you will find that India has small submarine fleet, compared to other countries. Given that India has a large coastline and depends on ocean waters for its economy, it needs to defend them well. And although no armed conflicts are happening in our waters now, to expect the same in future is just wishful thinking. So I ask few questions to the members:
  1. What is the ideal number of subs (nuclear/non-nuclear/total) in navy in future say in 2020, 2030, 2040 ? Things to consider - number of Pak subs, Chinese patrols/interference in IOR, ageing Indian subs etc.
  2. Best way to achieve that number ? How to do it - indigenous/ import/ allly patrols ? Considerations - SSBNs very expensive to import. Imports take longer.
Also discuss other possible roles for Indian Navy subs like positioning them in SCS, provide assistance to Taiwan, HongKong.
Ideally we need at around 35 to 45 subs to completely dominate Indian ocean. Around 27 to 35 conventional and 8 to 10 nuclear.

GOI's old 2030 plan is to reach 24 subs,18 conventional + 4 nuclear + 2 on lease. Last DM has indicated that this number is not enough so this can change.

Best way to achieve numbers is by investing lots of money in domestic shipbuilding industry and speeding up process of JV.


PN sub fleet is a joke. Growing presence of PLA N in IOR is our main concern.

Patrolling in SCS shouldn't be our priority. We have much greater role in IOR.

Taiwan is a vessel state of US and HongKong is part of China. They don't need our assistance.
 

IndianHawk

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Ideal number of submarine for us will be 2/3 of what PLAN have . That will be overwhelming for pakistan and also deterrence for china as Chinese won't be able to deploy more than half their fleet in Indian ocean at any given time.

Best way of course indigenization. But right now we need joint production with Russia / Germany/ Japan + domestic program to go on parallelly.
 

SanjeevM

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Japan should be our best friend at this moment. Modi has good repo with Japanese PM. Japan has good subs. If Modi can work on TOT, India can quickly get up To speed. We can build some subs for Japan as well.
 

Tarun Kumar

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We need at least 50 subs and thanks to an incompetent military leadership we have only 12 while we have wasted 5 billion on that good for nothing Vikramaditya. Aircraft carriers are the most useless pieces of equipment today, but our top brass still insists on it.
 

Razor

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The plan is to have 24 submarines by 2030 out of which 6 will be nuclear powered.

Current strength is 15.
One of those, the largest sub in Indian Navy btw and the only nuclear sub in IN other than Arihant, is on lease from the Russian Navy.
The lease ends in about 4 years.
 

Razor

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... Aircraft carriers are the most useless pieces of equipment today, but our top brass still insists on it.
By that you mean the supercarriers, right?
Bang-for-buck-wise, I think you are right.

What do the defence experts think??
 

Tarun Kumar

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What is the purpose of an aircraft carrier. To launch air operations from sea if one does not have the geographic reach to attack a target. This works well for US in Iraq or any country that wants global expeditionary force. But what happens when the opposing side has fortified coastal defenses.Today even mid ranking powers like Pakistan and NK have it. Very few of those aircrafts will be able to return back. On the other hand, the cost of building and defending a carrier through a carrier battle group is so huge that we can buy several small warships or subs with it. Now equip those subs with long range cruise missiles land torpedoes like Russians have done and you get much more bang for the buck. Now Chinese are building aircraft carriers due to prestige battle with US but in real terms a russian yasen class sub can take out a whole CBG let alone a carrier . What we need are more warships and subs equipped with long range cruise missiles and torpedoes not waste billions on a useless piece of junk called Aircraft carrier to show off prestige. However navies like ours who have boundless ambition but much lesser capability along with a status conscious top brass ends up with disasters like Vikramaditya. The only purpose of that junk is to hold conferences with American officials to impress them, the real meat is in submarines where our scorpenes still lack a torpedo. But what can I say, man's stupidity has no bounds
 

aditya g

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http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ra-inducted-in-navy/printarticle/52974464.cms

NEW DELHI: Indigenously-built heavyweight anti-submarine torpedo Varunastra has been successfully inducted in the navy, making India one of the eight countries to have the capability to design and build such a system.

Developed by Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL), a premier laboratory of DRDO, the electric torpedo was today formally handed over to Indian Navy and the induction is set to be a "game-changer" boost for it.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said the programme is not only a boost to country's indigenous capability but also an opportunity for export to other countries.

Defence sources said sale of Varunastra, weighing around 1.25 tonnes that carries about 250 kg of explosives at a speed of around 40 nautical miles an hour, was also one of the issues that came up for discussion during Parrikar's recent visit to Vietnam.

Having almost 95 per cent indigenous content, Varunastra, costing about Rs 10-12 crore per unit, is capable of targeting quiet and stealthy submarines, both in deep and littoral waters in intense counter-measure environment.

"Successful induction of Varunastra into our navy will be a game-changer in favour of the warships in the sub-surface warfare. This landmark has put navy in elite club of navies across the globe that can boast of self-reliance in under water sensors and under water weapons," Navy chief Admiral Sunil Lanba said.


He however rued that the development of this torpedo had "indeed being long".

"We need to work towards a reasonable time-frame from concept to realisation to address our capability gap in time," he said.

On his part, DRDO chief S Christopher said the normal gestation period for development of such a technology was 10 years and they took a year extra as there were many issues since it was being done for the first time.

From availability of ships and submarines for testing to numerous aspects of technology, he listed a number of reasons that delayed the project.

Parrikar directed the DRDO not to have a hands-off approach now that they have developed the torpedo, and handed over the technology to BDL for production.

"You cannot be a hospital where a child is born. You will have to stay along at least till the child is able to stand up and run around," Parrikar said as he suggested placing a small DRDO team with state-run BDL for a limited period.

He rued that the light-wight torpedos did not come at par with the quality expectation of the navy.

Parrikar also said that DRDO should also rope in a private company for future projects so that there is a good competition.
 

aditya g

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http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=526&q=More-Teeth-For-Indian-Navy-s-Il-38-Fleet

January 11, 2016: With plans to beef up anti-submarine warfare doctrines in the coming year, the Indian Navy, as part of a comprehensive modernisation plan, has decided to draw in all platforms for an rapid ramp-up in capabilities. In line with this, the Indian Navy has revived its interest in procuring 1,000 Passive Directional Sonobuoy systems to hunt submarines for its Il-38SD maritime surveillance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft fleet.

The sonobuoys are primarily intended as an aid for search, surveillance and localisation of submarines using the sonobuoy receiver system already integrated on the Il-38SD aircraft. The navy has stipulated that the sonobuoys should be passive directional and should be capable of being operated with the sonobuoy receiver system of Il-38SD stationed at INS Hansa, Goa. The sonobuoy should have a minimum detection range of 6 km and it should be able to operate for minimum 2 hours post deployment. The sonobuoy should have the facility to select depths at which the hydrophones can be deployed with the maximum depth that the hydrophone of the sonobuoy should be able to operate being not less than 300 metres. The Navy's Il-38s are expected to participate in a series of maritime exercises scheduled for 2016-17 with South East Asian and Western nations.
 

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Published on May 10, 2016
Maareech Advanced Torpedo Defence System (ATDS) is a state of the art indigenous system for torpedo detection and countermeasures used by the Indian Navy. The system offers a complete solution to detect and locate an incoming torpedo and to apply countermeasures to protect naval platform against torpedo attack. Maareech was developed as a joint project of the Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), Kochi and the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL), Visakhapatnam.

It is an anti-torpedo system with towed and expendable decoys. The system is capable of detecting, confusing, diverting and decoying the incoming torpedoes. The decoy helps in exhausting the energy of the torpedo by running the later through long and ineffective course and prevents them from homing in to the targeted platform with its advanced counter-measure capabilities.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Published on May 11, 2016
Anti-Torpedo Defence System(ATDS) is a new generation Torpedo Defence System for the Indian Navy. The Naval Ships installed with this new defence system is capable of firing the decoy for the purpose of detonationg and distracting the incoming torpedoes.

The Launch Control Panel(LCP) installed on this system is designed and developed to remotely control the torpedo decoy launchers to fire the decoy so as to achieve the ATDS functionality. With differnet modes of firing options like Remote, Local and Emergency, the LCP provides the necessary operational requirements in unforeseen situations encountered by our Indian Navy.

This footage is part of the professionally-shot broadcast stock footage archive of Wilderness Films India Ltd., the largest collection of HD imagery from South Asia. The collection comprises of 150, 000+ hours of high quality broadcast imagery, mostly shot on HDCAM / SR 1080i High Definition, Alexa, SR, XDCAM and 4K. Write to us for licensing this footage on a broadcast format, for use in your production! We are happy to be commissioned to film for you or else provide you with broadcast crewing and production solutions across South Asia. We pride ourselves in bringing the best of India and South Asia to the world...
 

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Kavaratti, the last of the four anti -submarine warfare class stealth corvettes being built for India under Project 28, will be launched here next week. Designed by the Directorate of Naval Design and built by Garden Reach Ship Builders and Engineers, the contract for the construction of four P28 ships was signed in June, 2012, with the project priced at Rs 7,800 crore. The corvette, with a displacement of 3,300 tonnes, has a lenght of 109.1 metres and measures 13.7- m at beam. The ship is propelled by four diesel engines to achieve speeds in excess of 25 knots and has an endurance of more than 3,400 nautical miles. Defence sources said that about 90 per cent of Kavaratti is indigenous and the ship is "well equipped" to fight in nuclear, chemical and biological warfare conditions. INS Kamorta, the first ship under this project, was commissioned by the Navy last year. Kadmatt and Kiltan are scheduled for delivery between 2015-2017. Launching of a ship means transferring the vessel to water.

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She is 90% indigenous, In time her torpedoes will be varunastra ..
 

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