Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Bleh

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Slip to where? P8is and romeo copters would be hunting them along with surface fleet.
Dude, don't waste time reply to this joker... Rat-eater has no technical understanding whatsoever. See the stuff he was saying in the INS Vikrant thread.

Here;
 

lixun

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Slip to where? P8is and romeo copters would be hunting them along with surface fleet.
Anti-submarine warfare is not something you can solve with a few P8Is. The best way is to find it when the submarine leaves the port. Otherwise, it will be difficult to find a few submarines in the vast Indian Ocean. How many naval forces did the Pakistani navy contain in the Second India-Pakistan War?
 

flanker99

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This yard is cursed anyway , plus this is anil ambani reliance .
Why it will affect national security.
Infact india should buy that bayraktar drone.too
vai this yard's infrastructure is on par with many chinese and Sk yards with proper management and incentives it is our ticket to "big boys club" in shipbuilding
it also has 3 opv hulls sitting there 1 almost complete,the new owner will own and can properly analyse those design and hulls ...thats definitely not desirable
 

flanker99

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In case of a war, before starting any "violent" offencive ops, IN could have spend a while on naval blockade taking away a lot of their war fighting capabilities before International pressure Intensifies. Starting the naval blockade with missile strike will make all geopolitical fence sitters talk and maybe even make us look like the aggressor.
im not talkig about blockade just saying that we wont need ships out in the oceans to sink porky ships
 

Bleh

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im not talkig about blockade just saying that we wont need ships out in the oceans to sink porky ships
Yes. Their surface treat will be taken out by the IN Air arm & IAF Su-30's Brahmos...

IN's main job is to stop the Paki sub from sneaking out to the south.
For that we have a shitton of assets there, from Kamorta Corvettes to P-8, and anti submarine helicopters on most warships, plus the new toed-array sonars.
Actually unless the subs are exiting from Gwadhar port, they'd be in range of these upcoming shallow water anti-sub crafts too.

SMART has all of a sudden increased the anti submarine reach of every IN ship by 600kms!.. No possibility of them slipping away after confirmed detection-location, like PNS Ghazi once did, due to no allied ships being nearby.

So 1-2 off the noisy chink crap might slip out, but we'll probably get most of them... and the ones that get out would be able to do any damage.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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Yes. Their surface treat will be taken out by the IN Air arm & IAF Su-30's Brahmos...

IN's main job is to stop the Paki sub from sneaking out to the south.
For that we have a shitton of assets there, from Kamorta Corvettes to P-8, and anti submarine helicopters on most warships, plus the new toed-array sonars.
Actually unless the subs are exiting from Gwadhar port, they'd be in range of these upcoming shallow water anti-sub crafts too.

SMART has all of a sudden increased the anti submarine reach of every IN ship by 600kms!.. No possibility of them slipping away after confirmed detection-location, like PNS Ghazi once did, due to no allied ships being nearby.

So 1-2 off the noisy chink crap might slip out, but we'll probably get most of them... and the ones that get out would be able to do any damage.
Rishi ji, I agree with what you wrote here.
But don't you think it will ve more difficult to sink their ships in the harbour ,plus their cruise missiles like raad can ve a trouble for our ships?
 

Okabe Rintarou

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I’m not sure about the Turkish frigate. If you’re talking about MP-750 radar, first of all, what is the relationship between the first blind speed and whether the radar can detect BrahMos, and I think BrahMos is more like a high-speed flight MIG21,
More importantly, there is an AESA on the 054AP
And there are 8 YJ12 supersonic anti-ship missiles, Mach 2-4, 400 km range,
Unless you are covered with underwater sonar around Karachi, 039B submarines will still slip away under your feet.
1.) Your current Type 054 has no AESA, its got a Type 345 radar for its HQ-16 SAM system.
2.) Above first blind speed, a pulse doppler radar can't measure the radial velocity. So no FCR solution can be calculated an no SAM launched for interception.
3.) No confirmation that the missile they are getting is the YJ-12. But even if we assume its the YJ-12, what then? Its going to be an export version limited below 290km of range and will still be slower than the BrahMos. Indian Navy will still outrange the Paki ships. Add to that, we have a credible defence against these missiles in the form of our MF-STAR AESA, Barak-8 and the cooperative engagement capability of our new ships. If our ships are part of a carrier strike group, we will have an AEW&CS chopper that would detect these missiles incoming from a long distance away, sea skimming won't help that much. But I will agree that if the Pakis get YJ-12, they will be a bit harder to beat in surface warfare. But then again, there is no proof that they are getting it, is there?
4.) Type 039B are not the quietest submarines in the world. Indian Navy are investing in a lot of AUV and airborne assets to track these submarine. Type 39B will have lower serviceability and be louder than Kalvari class. Add to it the drones and ASW aircraft that Indian Navy has and the surface fleet including the likes of Kamorta class, all these assets can interface to form an array the blocks Pakistani submarines from entering into the deep seas. Littorals are the only areas where they can stay safe. And in the littorals, India is deploying 16 ASW-SWC that can make a literal wall near Gujarat to ensure Paki subs are unable to penetrate. Add to it the SMART missile, if any active or passive sensor distributed across the hundreds of AUVs or underwater gliders or passive sonobuoys detect the Paki submarine, SMART missile can be launched from the shore to destroy the submarine and an ASW drone or aircraft can be over that location confirming the kill within minutes.


VL-SRSAM may not be available for every ship. Instead, we can use Rotating Missile launchers for smaller vessels like new anti submarine warfare Corvettes or patrol ships like Saryu class.
Agreed. For smaller vessels like OPVs and ASW-SWC, we can equip them with Point-defence, something similar to the American Rolling Airframe Missile based on the DRDO MDPMS (whenever that finishes development). It would have about the same range as Barak-1.

But for other ships like the Kamorta or maybe even the NGMV, we can add the VL-SRSAM. Those ships have the space and the mission profile to require it.

VL-SRSAM is short-range AD in same class as Sea Ceptor (CAMM)/ CAMM-ER or Aster-15. We should replace the Shtil-1 on Talwar and Shivalik as well as Barak-1 on Shivalik with VL-SRSAM. And Project-15 A/B also seem to have some space for four 8-cell launchers of VL-SRSAM. Even in Delhi-class destroyers, we should replace Shtil-1 with eight 8-cell VL-SRSAM launchers for a total of 64 missiles.

This would increase our destroyer loadout to 64 VLS for SAM and 16 for BrahMos (total 80 VLS). In P-15 A/B it would be 32 VLS for Barak-8 LRSAM and 32 VLS for VL-SRSAM. Quite similar to the loadout of the Royal Navy's Daring class after it receives its own SRSAM upgrade.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Yes. Their surface treat will be taken out by the IN Air arm & IAF Su-30's Brahmos...

IN's main job is to stop the Paki sub from sneaking out to the south.
For that we have a shitton of assets there, from Kamorta Corvettes to P-8, and anti submarine helicopters on most warships, plus the new toed-array sonars.
Actually unless the subs are exiting from Gwadhar port, they'd be in range of these upcoming shallow water anti-sub crafts too.

SMART has all of a sudden increased the anti submarine reach of every IN ship by 600kms!.. No possibility of them slipping away after confirmed detection-location, like PNS Ghazi once did, due to no allied ships being nearby.

So 1-2 off the noisy chink crap might slip out, but we'll probably get most of them... and the ones that get out would be able to do any damage.
Exactly. I forgot the Su-30 MKI an BrahMos combo. We've got so many counters to this Paki fleet its hard to keep track.
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One thing though, our ASW-SWC don't need to go into the waters near Paki ports. They only need to stay close to Gujarat coastline and guard the littorals. Littorals are the best place for the Paki submarines to hide. Which is why I think Indian Navy is creating dedicated ASW force for littorals using ASW-SWC class and Dornier-228 MPAs and separate dedicated ASW force for the high seas comprising of Kamorta, Romeos, P-8I MPAs, Il-38 MPAs and Sea Guardian drones. AUVs and underwater gliders would also be ubiquitous. So many sensors above the surface Kalvari class below the surface, all watching everything from the littorals to the high seas and any ping on these sensors would mean SMART missiles raining and trapping the Paki sub. And all this is just our first line of defence. If a lone Paki submarine even manages to slip past this, there will be more littoral specific ASW force near each major naval base and a general ASW effort in the Arabian sea using drones and MPAs and maybe even some Surface Action Groups.
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At this point, it may be overkill, but I think Navy should work on a undersea hydrophone sensor array similar to the one we've deployed against China in the Nicobar area.
 

Bleh

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Rishi ji, I agree with what you wrote here.
But don't you think it will ve more difficult to sink their ships in the harbour ,plus their cruise missiles like raad can ve a trouble for our ships?
Brahmos don't differentiate between open sea or harbour... Ra'ad could be an issue, that's why the strike element must be Sukhoi-30, not ships.
 

Bleh

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It will be easier ..as ships in harbor will be without crew to man its weapons
Unlikely.The major reasons of keeping ship in the harbour are they often don't have enough depth to properly sink and only capsize... And they are will be defended by coastal firepower.
But thankfully for the Pakistani coast especially the eastern half, is overlapping action area of both IAF & IN.

There Chinese anti-ship missiles have less range than ours & aeroballistic missiles are more interceptable... for now.
 

Akula

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My god the turks are bidding for rnaval shipyard ...itll be a bloody disaster for our national security if we let those lot get their hands on that shipyard.
Reliance shipyard has played a bad role in delaying Indian Navy's LHD procurement.
 

Tridev123

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Pakistanis are adding a lot of assets to its fleet. Power difference b/w the IN and PN is the biggest compared to AF and Army. Will this advantage be lost too!? IN will be incapable of enforcing a Naval blockade of pakistan.
Opinions!?
There is no reason to believe that India will not be able to comfortably deal with any new naval acquisition by Pakistan.
But I wouldn't laugh off the capabilities of the new platforms proposed to be acquired by the Pakistan Navy.
The Chinese are trying to be the new United States in Asia. Trying to play the role of a Super Power which can change regional military equations by supplying supposedly potent weapon platforms to its allies.

Remember the mandatory statement that comes out of Washington before any military sale to any nation
'the proposed sale will not alter the basic military balance in the region'

The Chinese long cherished objective is to tie down India to South Asia and get India obsessed with Pakistan. India should be made busy countering the threat from Pakistan. So the military capability of Pakistan is sought to be elevated by supplying state of the art weapon systems (as China would have the world to believe) and hoping that India will desperately try to match Pakistan.

And thereby allowing China to exercise its power in all of Asia without being hindered by India.

In other words they do not want India as a challenger in Asia.

But their plans have gone for a six. India has not only pulled away from Pakistan in economic and military power but is also posing a credible threat to Chinese power in Asia.

There is no comparison between the 8000 plus tonnes heavy destroyers of India and any naval ship in the Pakistani inventory. Just one example. In fact our lead in naval power over Pakistan is the greatest compared to the other two services, the Army and the Air Force.

That doesn't mean that the 8 new submarines and 4 new frigates to be supplied by China should be dismissed as shit.

Let them come. Let us guage their capabilities. I think nobody should have any doubt that India will find suitable answers to them. We will outmatch them in technological capability.

Let us not get too bothered about Pakistan. We are aiming to first match China and later surpass them both economically and militarily.
 

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‘JOINT GUIDANCE FOR THE AUSTRALIA – INDIA NAVY TO NAVY RELATIONSHIP’ SIGNED BETWEEN INDIAN NAVY & AUSTRALIAN NAVY


Posted On: 18 AUG 2021 7:24PM by PIB Delhi



A ‘Joint Guidance for the Australia – India Navy to Navy Relationship’ document was signed between the Indian Navy and Royal Australian Navy today, 18 August 2021. The signing ceremony was held virtually between Adm Karambir Singh, Chief of the Naval Staff, Indian Navy and Vice Admiral Michael J Noonan, Chief of Navy, Australian Navy.


The document is aligned to the ‘2020 Comprehensive Strategic Partnership’ agreed by the Prime Ministers and aims to ensure shared approached to regional and global security challenges. The Joint Guidance would serve as a guideline document to showcase the intent of both the Navies to work together bi/ multi-laterally. The broad scope of the guidance is focussed on developing mutual understanding, cooperate for regional security, collaborate in mutually beneficial activities and to develop interoperability.


The highlights of document include close cooperation in regional and multilateral fora, including Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS), Western Pacific Naval Symposium (WPNS), Indian Ocean Rim Association (IORA)and Expert Working Groups subordinate to the ASEAN Defence Ministers' Meeting Plus framework.


Bilateral defence relations between India and Australia have strengthened over the years. ‘Comprehensive Strategic Partnership’, Mutual Logistics Support Agreement, conduct of trilateral Maritime Security Workshop and RAN participation in Exercise MALABAR are significant milestones which underline the role played by both Navies in bolstering this relationship in recent times. The document would be pivotal in consolidating the shared commitment to promote peace, security, stability and prosperity in the Indo - Pacific region.
 

Anandhu Krishna

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No. Most of their fleets is of the 70/80s, they plan on keeping using some of the vintages & retiring some. Only the dozen-odd Turkish and Chinese, frigates and corvettes are not Brahmos fodder (they are, but due to 7-1 numerical superiority, not tech)... All of their subs are/will be subpar too.

Read what i said & you'll agree with this if you do better research:
Conflict is not between IN & PN. Its western fleet vs PN. Numerical superiority is challenged with their new inductions. Every asset navy have to commit to counter pakis is one less asset against the chinese. and if pakis are inducting YJ12, that is another matter.
 

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