Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Kalkioftoday]

6.7 Bil$ for 5 Destroyers? 1.34 Bil$ per Destroyer?
Vishakapatnam costed 1.2 Bil$ per ship as of 2013 prices. Further it was "Cheap" because the design was based of Kolkata Class with not many changes.
Now they are saying,a completely new design, a bigger one of 10,000 tons+, as of 2025ish prices will be 1.34 Bil$ per ship?
Kaun hain yeh log? Kaha se aate hain? Matlab kuch bhi .

Underarm Destroyer cost billion, Underarm Frigate cost near billion, Torpedoless Submarine cost double billion plus. Ha Ha Ha. Lavde ka Indigenous. Lavde ka 'Indeginous weapons are affordable'. Lavde ka 'competeing with the american for the most expansive destroyer cuz heck we couldn't even compete against them over advance technology, let's comete against them over the most overpriced destroyer'. Lavde ka 'Russia se aur jyada ships kharid lo.


...
In a sane country they would've ripped their Navy, Shipyard and MOD guys for these kind of overpriced shit

 

[Kalkioftoday]

There's something very very wrong with our shipbuilding industry. Indeginisation ke naam par ga*d mari ja rahi ha taxpayers ki

 

[Lonewolf]

There's something very very wrong with our shipbuilding industry. Indeginisation ke naam par ga*d mari ja rahi ha taxpayers ki

Ever done a research on why this is being done , you would have saved your brain cells .

Hint: shipbuilding capabilities and pre manufacturing investment

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Ever done a research on why this is being done , you would have saved your brain cells .

Hint: shipbuilding capabilities and pre manufacturing investment

MDL is making navy ships for ages and after all these time if you say that they don't have capabilities or infra than it is your own brain cells that are fooling each other. And if you read carefully than you'll see i didn't just blame the shipyards only

 

[Lonewolf]

MDL is making navy ships for ages and after all these time if you say that they don't have capabilities or infra than it is your own brain cells that are fooling each other. And if you read carefully than you'll see i didn't just blame the shipyards only

Is naval shipbuilding is enough for a shipyard , make some intelligent comments please

 

[Gessler]

6.7 Bil$ for 5 Destroyers? 1.34 Bil$ per Destroyer?
Vishakapatnam costed 1.2 Bil$ per ship as of 2013 prices. Further it was "Cheap" because the design was based of Kolkata Class with not many changes.
Now they are saying,a completely new design, a bigger one of 10,000 tons+, as of 2025ish prices will be 1.34 Bil$ per ship?
Kaun hain yeh log? Kaha se aate hain? Matlab kuch bhi .

Price is impossible to accurately estimate at this point.

Kolkata class price escalated 200% over initial budget. Shivalik price escalated 260% from initial estimates.

These are just words to throw around at this point.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Price is impossible to accurately estimate at this point.

Kolkata class price escalated 200% over initial budget. Shivalik price escalated 260% from initial estimates.

These are just words to throw around at this point.

It's a sad situation. Sab saale critics mathardoch Tejas pe nishana daage baithe ha or yaha par ye log bakchodi pe lage ha. Why change the system when it's working as a MGNREGA for everyone. Ha Ha Ha

 

[THESIS THORON]

It's a sad situation. Sab saale critics mathardoch Tejas pe nishana daage baithe ha or yaha par ye log bakchodi pe lage ha. Why change the system when it's working as a MGNREGA for everyone. Ha Ha Ha

whatever, but at the end at last we have a solid warship. .

they should try for lcs kind of thing rather than making more talwar class.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Yes this is the same document we've seen a dozen times before. At this point in time (2018) its pretty obvious that the numbers were far from being firmed up - as they're giving number anywhere between 5 and 10 for both NGD & NGF combined which is a huge bracket.

With 5 (or most likely 6) ships now firmly required for NGD, the NGF number is unlikely to be less than 6.

Because NGF is significantly behind NGD in timeline, the first ship is unlikely to enter service before late 2030s. As such the NGF class will more than likely be the intended replacement for the first 6 Talwar-class frigates (first one commissioned 2003, and will be ~35 yrs old by that time, ripe for retirement).

The last 4 talwars (aka Tushil-class & Triput-class) which are now being built will serve into 2040s & beyond. But the first 6 will have to be decommissioned at some point in 2030s. If we go for a one-to-one replacement of hulls, that gives us a requirement of 6 FFGs under NGF program - that's gonna be the bare minimum requirement. Depending on finances & threat perception of the time, the number could increase.





We do not know either of these for a fact. I've written in detail about what the NGD-NGF combine could look like, quoting from my post on another forum:

It seems unlikely that NGF will be limited to No.s 6 only replacing just Batch I and Batch II Talwar Class Frigates in the late 2030s.

We can add the Brahmaputra Class Frigates to the list which were commissioned in the early 2000s as well.

Seeing that P 17A was aound 7 units, a figure of 10+ conditional to finances and global threat perception is almost assured.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

whatever, but at the end at last we have a solid warship. .

they should try for lcs kind of thing rather than making more talwar class.

A warship is as good as it's weapons. All our new ships (frigates and destroyer) are underarmed. They are neither air defence platform, nor a strike platform. So i will think twice before calling them a solid platform.

 

[vampyrbladez]

A warship is as good as it's weapons. All our new ships (frigates and destroyer) are underarmed. They are neither air defence platform, nor a strike platform. So i will think twice before calling them a solid platform.

Add constructive case studies to support your arguments or stop rage baiting here.

Mods : @ezsasa @Dovah

 

[Longewala]

A warship is as good as it's weapons. All our new ships (frigates and destroyer) are underarmed. They are neither air defence platform, nor a strike platform. So i will think twice before calling them a solid platform.

The first sets built 20 years back were.

This generation is not underarmed, they have just left plenty of space for future expansion instead of packing them with useless weapons at the outset, Soviet style.

And yes, indigenous weapons would cost much more. Lower utilisation of manufacturing capacity, more labour intensive etc.

It's a choice of that or permanently importing "cheap" weapons and ships.

Just like Japan, we have chosen wisely. This investment will pay off in a few decades.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Our warships costs more coz almost every previous project has gone through some sort of delay leading to price over runs, it's an issue of project management and orde placement. AFAIK IN is very much a criminal in sense that various components for warships are ordered very late in project leading to delay. Base ship building time as of now is good but then outfitting takes like eternity. I mean you gotta have all parts on hand to make it operational asap.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Underarm Destroyer cost billion, Underarm Frigate cost near billion, Torpedoless Submarine cost double billion plus. Ha Ha Ha. Lavde ka Indigenous. Lavde ka 'Indeginous weapons are affordable'. Lavde ka 'competeing with the american for the most expansive destroyer cuz heck we couldn't even compete against them over advance technology, let's comete against them over the most overpriced destroyer'. Lavde ka 'Russia se aur jyada ships kharid lo.

...
In a sane country they would've ripped their Navy, Shipyard and MOD guys for these kind of overpriced shit

Each country designs their ships as per their respective naval doctrines, Americans need heavily armed destroyers coz they are going to be fighting across different oceans and continents.
In case of India, IN warships are going to be fighting in the IOR itself and rarely venture out of it.
Barak 8 is expensive and cant be packed onto an IN warship like its an arsenal ship, there has to be a balance, which VL-SRSAM will provide once its completes user trials with the Navy and becomes a part of their inventory.
The submarine you are talking about is getting the sub launched version of Varunastra, so there is no need to whine and cry.
Coming to tech advancement, the Brahmos, Barak 8, MFSTAR combination is as good as any cutting edge American tech of similar type if not better, so stop this BS of being technologically inferior like.
Dump that inferiority complex somewhere the sun does not shine.
We simply bought the Russian ex-Admiral Grigorovich class frigates coz we saw that as an opportunity to bump up our nos since those empty hulls were of no use once Russia-Ukraine relations soured post 2014.
Also, it gave us a 3rd frigate construction line at GSL which can now build such frigates in parallel with MDL and GRSE thanks to the 2 Tushil class frigate contract.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

There's something very very wrong with our shipbuilding industry. Indeginisation ke naam par ga*d mari ja rahi ha taxpayers ki

India don't have a "shipbuilding" industry. China had a shipbuilding industry which helps her to churn out warships each year. Only civilian industry could help our naval industry.
Shipbuilding is actually a good forex earner. Just like airplanes. We should have concentrated on it long back.

 

[Shuturmurg]

India don't have a "shipbuilding" industry. China had a shipbuilding industry which helps her to churn out warships each year. Only civilian industry could help our naval industry.
Shipbuilding is actually a good forex earner. Just like airplanes. We should have concentrated on it long back.

That is correct. Also, having a civilian industry helps enormously in building military ships. Take example of aircraft, US and Europe dominate civilian aircraft industry. So massive profits from civilian aircrafts can be re-invested into research for better materials and engines which in turn bleed into fighter jets tech and vice-versa.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Each country designs their ships as per their respective naval doctrines, Americans need heavily armed destroyers coz they are going to be fighting across different oceans and continents.
In case of India, IN warships are going to be fighting in the IOR itself and rarely venture out of it.
Barak 8 is expensive and cant be packed onto an IN warship like its an arsenal ship, there has to be a balance, which VL-SRSAM will provide once its completes user trials with the Navy and becomes a part of their inventory.
The submarine you are talking about is getting the sub launched version of Varunastra, so there is no need to whine and cry.
Coming to tech advancement, the Brahmos, Barak 8, MFSTAR combination is as good as any cutting edge American tech of similar type if not better, so stop this BS of being technologically inferior like.
Dump that inferiority complex somewhere the sun does not shine.
We simply bought the Russian ex-Admiral Grigorovich class frigates coz we saw that as an opportunity to bump up our nos since those empty hulls were of no use once Russia-Ukraine relations soured post 2014.
Also, it gave us a 3rd frigate construction line at GSL which can now build such frigates in parallel with MDL and GRSE thanks to the 2 Tushil class frigate contract.

Barak 8 is expensive and cant be packed onto an IN warship like its an arsenal ship, there has to be a balance, which VL-SRSAM will provide once its completes user trials with the Navy and becomes a part of their inventory.
The submarine you are talking about is getting the sub launched version of Varunastra, so there is no need to whine and cry.

Ha Ha Ha. Isn't this the story of every defence enthusiast drunk on Hopium? VL-SRSAM is still in trial phase, it'll take years before they install it's operational version in our warships. And forget sub launched Varunastra, cuz the last time i check we were conducting the trial for ship launched version in Issyk-Kul lake in Kyrgyzstan before the scientists contruct covid 19 there and IAF had to evacuate them all and some twitter fools thought we were evacuating our RAA agents who according to them were spying on china and also there's a reason why we unban Leonardo.
Unless those ships get the real weapon they are still underarm, 'trial chal raha ha', 'jaldi ayega' will work for people like you not for the actual navy guys who have to do the fighting.
If a conflict start today i hope the navy send you to the chinese side to explain them how our ships will get the new weapons "soon" and can the chinese side stop the further escalation till our ships get their weapons.

Coming to tech advancement, the Brahmos, Barak 8, MFSTAR combination is as good as any cutting edge American tech of similar type if not better, so stop this BS of being technologically inferior like.
Dump that inferiority complex somewhere the sun does not shine.

It looks like the sun also doesn't shine in your brain too. To think that we can surpass the Aegis and SM6 equipped american with export version of MF-STAR and Barak seeker is extremely moronic.
Our competition with the american hasn't even started yet. When we start using our own desi MF-Star, from than the competition will begun.

We simply bought the Russian ex-Admiral Grigorovich class frigates coz

Coz the desi alternatives were expansive as hell. Instead of writing ten line, you could've wrote this in one line

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Our warships costs more coz almost every previous project has gone through some sort of delay leading to price over runs, it's an issue of project management and orde placement. AFAIK IN is very much a criminal in sense that various components for warships are ordered very late in project leading to delay. Base ship building time as of now is good but then outfitting takes like eternity. I mean you gotta have all parts on hand to make it operational asap.

You're right. It's a cancerous cycle. There were times where the navy gave the late order and there were times when the OEM took months to deliver. I saw a interview once where a retired navy personal were saying that isreali company took months to deliver a critical component for the radar system and for which shipyard also had to wait months before fitting out the ship

 

[THESIS THORON]

Unless those ships get the real weapon they are still underarm, 'trial chal raha ha', 'jaldi ayega' will work for people like you not for the actual navy guys who have to do the fighting.
If a conflict start today i hope the navy send you to the chinese side to explain them how our ships will get the new weapons "soon" and can the chinese side stop the further escalation till our ships get their weapons.

the sheer dumbness of this shocks everyone .

you are ranting as if there is no ADS on those ships.

and calling ship under-armed as if chinks have got the tech for intercepting supersonic sea skimming cruise missile.

 

[Lonewolf]

View attachment 132933


the sheer dumbness of this shocks everyone .

you are ranting as if there is no ADS on those ships.

and calling ship under-armed as if chinks have got the tech for intercepting supersonic sea skimming cruise missile.

Next phase of trial of vlsrsam will be from a ship .