Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

WolfPack86

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Tata, Adani, Bharat Forge, Mahindra in race for Rs 25k-cr Navy chopper deal
Four Indian firms including Tata, Adani, Mahindra Defence Systems and Bharat Forge have been shortlisted by the Indian Navy as strategic partners for the project involving a deal worth Rs 25,000 crore for indigenous manufacturing of 111 Naval Utility Choppers.

Under the first project of the strategic partnership policy of the Narendra Modi government to develop indigenous industry's defence manufacturing capacity, 111 light helicopters have to be built indigenously through joint ventures between Indian and foreign firms.

"The four Indian firms will now need to partner with foreign original equipment manufacturers including European Airbus Helicopters which has offered two choppers, American Sikorsky-Lockheed Martin and Russian Rosoboronexport," sources in the Navy told ANI.


The Navy will now take the case to the Defence Acquisition Council with the shortlisted names of both Indian and foreign manufacturers for the ambitious project to get the approval from the government for its shortlist and take the process forward.

Sources said a total of eight Indian companies had shown interest in becoming strategic partners including a public sector undertaking but only four have been shortlisted by the force which will use the new choppers to replace its fleet of Cheetah/Chetak helicopters.

The Strategic Partnership model was first envisaged under the leadership of late Manohar Parrikar during his stint as defence minister and gained shape later under Nirmala Sitharaman.

The strategic partnership model envisages tie-up between Indian and foreign firms leading to the acquisition of niche technologies and setting up of modern production facilities in India.

Under the plan, the first 16 helicopters have to be delivered from the OEM's overseas production facility and the remaining 95 helicopters Are to be manufactured in India by the selected strategic partner form.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/T...n-race-for-Rs-25k-cr-Navy-chopper-deal-757933
 

WolfPack86

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Centre inks pact with Goa Shipyard for two Advance Missile Frigates
The Centre has signed a contract with the Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL) for construction of two advanced missile frigates for the Navy, Union Minister of State for Defence Shripad Naik said here on Thursday.

This is the state-run shipyard's largest order so far, he said.

The project will be a stepping stone for the Goa Shipyard to construct weapon-intensive and technologically advanced warships in future, and will bolster the 'Make In India' objective of the Union government, Naik said.


He was speaking at the launch of an offshore patrol vessel constructed by the GSL for the Indian Coast Guard.

Coast Guard's Director General Krishnaswamy Natrajan and Department of Defence Production Secretary Subhash Chandra were also present on the occasion.

"In recognition of the GSL's performance and capabilities, the Union government has signed a contract with it for construction of two advanced missile frigates for the Indian Navy," Naik said.

"This is the largest order in the history of GSL and I am confident that with the dedication of all workers and management, the shipyard will execute the project in a time- bound and effective manner," he said.

The project will ensure work opportunities for a large number of Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) in Goa, the minister said.

He said the government has been giving a lot of impetus to exports and a number of favourable policy changes have been made to promote export of defence products.

"I am pleased to see that PSU shipyards such as the GSL are actively involved in exports and closely interacting with a number of Asian and African countries," he said.

"Some of the projects are at advanced stages of conclusion. I urge you (GSL) to continue the momentum and increase your global footprint," the minister said.

He also said that the DefExpo 2020, which is scheduled to be held in Lucknow in February, will also offer an excellent opportunity to showcase the capabilities of India's defence and shipbuilding industry to foreign visitors and promote the export potential.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/C...pyard-for-two-Advance-Missile-Frigates-757973
 

sorcerer

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US okays big guns for Indian Navy worth $1 billion | India News - Times of India

WASHINGTON: The Trump administration on Tuesday approved sale to India of up to 13 MK 45 naval guns and related equipment worth an estimated cost of $1.0210 billion.
The Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on November 19 after the State Department made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to India of the big naval guns and related equipment.
The MK 45 is a naval artillery gun designed for use against surface warships, anti-aircraft and shore bombardment to support amphibious operations. The gun mount features an automatic loader with a capacity of 20 rounds that can be fired under full automatic control, taking a little over a minute to exhaust those rounds at maximum fire rate.
The DSCA said in a statement that the Government of India has requested to buy up to thirteen (13) MK 45 5 inch/62 caliber (MOD 4) naval guns, three thousand five hundred (3,500) D349 projectile ammunition, plus other ammunition, spare parts, personnel training and equipment training, publications and technical data, transportation, US Government and contractor technical assistance and related logistics support worth $1.0210 billion.
The proposed sale will improve India's capability to meet current and future threats from enemy weapon systems, the DSCA explained, adding that the MK-45 Gun System will provide the capability to conduct anti-surface warfare and anti-air defense missions while enhancing interoperability with U.S. and other allied forces.
India will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense, it added.
This proposed sale, DSCA said, will support the foreign policy and national security of the United States by improving the security of a strategic regional partner. India will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defence, it added, while offering the standard caveat that the proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.
 

Wisemarko

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Someone asked this so explaining:
OTO Melara vs BAE Mk 45:
OTO 5/64 are heavier at 31 tons but more automated with option for complete autonomous operation. This increases complexity and risk for failure but provides faster reloading/ rate of fire. It also has longer range with standard ammunition due to longer barrel. Vulcan guided ammunition’s 100 km range sounds impressive on paper but real world utility is limited and it is very expensive.

BAE Mk 45 mod 4 has 20 clip ready to go in auto mode. Can fire that in under a minute. After that, needs to be reloaded manually which is a 5 person operation. It is lighter system, has more customers, cheaper to operate and extremely reliable. Interestingly, Japanese abandoned OTO 5” to use Mk 45 on their newest ships.

Italians are working on offering Vulcan ammunition for Mk 45 as well. Overall both are good options.
 

asianobserve

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US okays big guns for Indian Navy worth $1 billion | India News - Times of India

WASHINGTON: The Trump administration on Tuesday approved sale to India of up to 13 MK45 naval guns and related equipment worth an estimated cost of $1.0210 billion.
The Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on November 19 after the State Department made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to India of the big naval guns and related equipment.
The MK 45 is a naval artillery gun designed for use against surface warships, anti-aircraft and shore bombardment to support amphibious operations. The gun mount features an automatic loader with a capacity of 20 rounds that can be fired under full automatic control, taking a little over a minute to exhaust those rounds at maximum fire rate.
The DSCA said in a statement that the Government of India has requested to buy up to thirteen (13) MK 45 5 inch/62 caliber (MOD 4) naval guns, three thousand five hundred (3,500) D349 projectile ammunition, plus other ammunition, spare parts, personnel training and equipment training, publications and technical data, transportation, US Government and contractor technical assistance and related logistics support worth $1.0210 billion.
The proposed sale will improve India's capability to meet current and future threats from enemy weapon systems, the DSCA explained, adding that the MK-45 Gun System will provide the capability to conduct anti-surface warfare and anti-air defense missions while enhancing interoperability with U.S. and other allied forces.
India will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense, it added.
This proposed sale, DSCA said, will support the foreign policy and national security of the United States by improving the security of a strategic regional partner. India will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defence, it added, while offering the standard caveat that the proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The USN earlier this year tested firing 20 Highpervelocity Projectile (HPV) from a Mk 45 naval gun aboard USS Dewey.

It is reported that an HPV fired from a Mk45 gun travels at Mach 7.4 at sea level. HPV is more expensive than ordinary naval projectile but much much cheaper than missiles. HPVs could be used for Anti-ship, anti-air or target land based installations.

Some HPV shells under testing:
 

asianobserve

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That is the speed launched at the barrel of a railgun. It isn't nearly that fast launched with gunpowder.


Shot from the deck gun, the payload can travel as fast as Mach 7.4, or over 2,400 mph at sea level.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.up...t-hypersonic-speed-projectiles/4401547062105/

No US railgun has ever been installed on a ship although there are plans to install it on transport ships for experimentation. The only ship-based gun or deck gun where HPV has been fired until now is on the USS Dewey with the Mk45 Mod4.

HPV has been test fired on land via rail guns and 155mm howitzers.
 

Armand2REP

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No US railgun has ever been installed on a ship although there are plans to install it on transport ships for experimentation. The only ship-based gun or deck gun where HPV has been fired until now is on the USS Dewey with the Mk45 Mod4.

HPV has been test fired on land via rail guns and 155mm howitzers.
"An HPV round fired from a railgun leaves the barrel at Mach 7.5 (Mach 3 if fired from a conventional gun) "

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...nt-with-railguns-yield-a-useful-weapon-system
 

ladder

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uoftotaku

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lamo this is becoming soo true.
DTTI is proving to be a failure.
Because our approach is wrong altogether. We are trying to deal with US pvt sector companies with same prism as Indian DPSUs and trying to get them into collaboration together. Moreover, the kind of things we are asking for are so called crown jewels of technology which no pvt company with shareholders to answer to, will ever hand over willingly unless the price paid is worth it.

Therein comes the last and biggest problem, we are unwilling to hold up the "shared" part of the bargain which is equal if not majority investment in the joint development. As is seen in the Kaveri-Safran debacle, we want world class tech but balk at the cost required to actually get it.

Western tech is expensive, much more than Russian or indigenous, one can call it unreasonably expensive too but it is what it is and we still desire it since the capabilities are also worth the price. If there is no money available (which is not true) or we are simply being the usual baniya cheapskates trying to get a "deal" then we should not be in this industry at all. Here companies like LM who have a turnover greater than a lot of countries GDP hold a lot more leverage than us.

And despite what many jingos like to think about India being a "big market" for these companies, consider the fact that the Pentagon budget for 1 year is sufficient to cover Indian MoD's needs to a full decade. Boeing alone made $20B y-t-d 2019 on its defense division in the US which is more than our entire capital budget this year. So we are small fry in the big scheme of things, they treat us with the requisite amount of contempt.
 

Assassin 2.0

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Because our approach is wrong altogether. We are trying to deal with US pvt sector companies with same prism as Indian DPSUs and trying to get them into collaboration together. Moreover, the kind of things we are asking for are so called crown jewels of technology which no pvt company with shareholders to answer to, will ever hand over willingly unless the price paid is worth it.

Therein comes the last and biggest problem, we are unwilling to hold up the "shared" part of the bargain which is equal if not majority investment in the joint development. As is seen in the Kaveri-Safran debacle, we want world class tech but balk at the cost required to actually get it.

Western tech is expensive, much more than Russian or indigenous, one can call it unreasonably expensive too but it is what it is and we still desire it since the capabilities are also worth the price. If there is no money available (which is not true) or we are simply being the usual baniya cheapskates trying to get a "deal" then we should not be in this industry at all. Here companies like LM who have a turnover greater than a lot of countries GDP hold a lot more leverage than us.

And despite what many jingos like to think about India being a "big market" for these companies, consider the fact that the Pentagon budget for 1 year is sufficient to cover Indian MoD's needs to a full decade. Boeing alone made $20B y-t-d 2019 on its defense division in the US which is more than our entire capital budget this year. So we are small fry in the big scheme of things, they treat us with the requisite amount of contempt.
dealings are going on with private sector also. government is also pushing them
DTTI is not only for jet engine technology transfer it’s for collaboration in different fields till now there is no success
western technology is expensive i know but it’s not like india is not buying western products? we are buying weapons worth billions of dollars

i know pentagon budget is of billions and there sales is in billions too
but there was a reason why all these projects were started? because of strategic interests of both of the countries there was huge halla when obama started this when he was on his indian visit.

kaveri -safran if drdo itself doesn’t find need of pushing billions in a old project then i think it’s because they don’t find it productively or something else . but we should not forget that drdo itself have one of the brightest minds of india. they don’t like terms of saffron in changing the core . when you are the buyer you are the one who have big chips this how business works. if india is spending money then we should work to get best of it . doesn’t matter if we look like a baniya in the way of getting the best deal.
 
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Assassin 2.0

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Context
Fact Sheet: U.S.-India Defense Relationship
The United States is committed to a long-term strategic partnership with India. We respect India as a regional and emerging global power as well as a provider of regional security. We see a growing convergence with India on our strategic outlook for the Asia-Pacific region and India’s role in shaping the Asian landscape. The past decade has been particularly transformative in the bilateral relationship, culminating in President Obama’s successful January trip to New Delhi as the Chief Guest for India’s 66th Republic Day celebrations. The president’s visit resulted in several key defense outcomes, including finalizing the 2015 Framework for the U.S.-India Defense Relationship. This Framework provides our two nations with guiding principles for defense engagement for the coming decade, including our military exchanges and exercises, a promising outlook on defense trade, and increasingly close consultations on regional security issues and maritime security.
U.S.-India Defense Relationship: Recent Milestones
2005
 The United States and India sign the New Framework for the India-U.S. Defense Relationship, ushering in a decade of tremendous growth in the defense relationship and setting the U.S. and India on a path to increasingly broad, complex and strategic cooperation.
2012
 Secretary Panetta appoints then Deputy Secretary of Defense Carter to lead a bold, new initiative now known as the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI). DTTI, launched in 2012, is an unprecedented joint endeavor that brings sustained leadership focus to the bilateral defense trade relationship, creates opportunities for U.S.-India co-production and co- development, and fosters more sophisticated science and technology cooperation, all while ensuring that bureaucratic processes and procedures do not stand in the way of the progress.

2014
 President Obama and former Prime Minister Singh endorse the India-U.S. Declaration on Defense Cooperation, a document that reflects the United States' and India's commitment to a long-term strategic partnership, through which our countries cooperate to increase the security and prosperity of our citizens and the global community.
2015
 President Obama travels to India as Chief Guest for India's 66th Republic Day Celebrations. The visit results in key several defense outcomes, including:
o The completion of the 2015 Framework for the U.S.-India Defense Relationship, which will guide and expand our nations' bilateral defense and strategic partnership over the next 10 years;
o Agreement to pursue four pathfinder projects under the DTTI as well as cooperation on Aircraft Carriers and Jet Engine Technology; and
o Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region, which affirms the shared vision for promising prosperity and stability in the region.
Key Partnership Activities
Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI)
 The DTTI seeks to deepen defense cooperation between India and the United States by elevating dialogue on cooperative research & development and defense trade to the highest levels of government.
 As a key outcome from President Obama's January visit to India, the United States and India decided to pursue four pathfinder DTTI projects for possible co-development and/or co-production, as well as cooperation on aircraft carriers and jet engine technology. Since that time, the United States and India have reached agreement to implement two government-to-government DTTI projects: Mobile Electric Hybrid Power sources and Next Generation Protective Ensembles for chem-bio protection.

Maritime Security
 As strategic interests continue to converge in the Indian Ocean and Asia- Pacific regions, both President Obama and Prime Minister Modi have highlighted maritime security as a key area of cooperation.
 Naval engagements, such as the bilateral MALABAR exercise, improve the cooperation of U.S. and Indian maritime forces and contribute to both sides' ability to counter threats at sea, from piracy to violent extremism. These engagements also present opportunities to engage with other partners.
Knowledge Partnership in Defense Studies
 During President Obama's January trip to India, the president and Prime Minister Modi launched the U.S.-India Knowledge Partnership in Defense Studies. The leaders welcomed the initiative as a new area of defense cooperation that will serve to expand our bilateral defense relationship, build greater linkages in the field of professional military education, and strengthen our people-to-people ties.
 Building linkages in professional military education is a strategic priority recognized in the 2015 Framework for the U.S.-India Defense Relationship.
 

asianobserve

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This is a nice vedeo of a Mk45 Mod4 firing from an Arleigh Burke destroyer. Probably it's targetting a giant orange floating ballon practice target.


But on what ship will India stick its 11 Mk45s?
 

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