This is VC11184
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What do survey ships do? Are they like AEWACS to survey the air?
STAFF REPORTER
Here is the news about Project 17A (October 28)
I don't understand how the cost of choppers is 450 crore per unit. Even the upgrade of Ka28 is at 100 crore per unit.Facing Challenge At Sea, Navy Embarks On Long Road To Upgrade Chopper Fleet
Navy’s push for 24 multi-role helicopters worth Rs 10,000 crore is aimed at adding more air power
India came very close to hammering out a deal for 16 Sikorsky S-70B Seahawks a year ago but the negotiations fell through due to price issues.
The navy is preparing a fresh case for buying new multi-role helicopters (MRH) after failed attempts to fill a key area of deficiency in its capabilities, a senior navy officer said.
The MRH is expected to be the future mainstay of the navy’s anti-submarine, anti-ship warfare and airborne early-warning capabilities that have seen a worrying and persistent deterioration over the last decade.
The new push for 24 MRH worth over Rs 10,000 crore is aimed at replacing the Sea King 42/42A helicopters that were retired almost around two decades ago.
“The replacement is overdue. It was around 15 years ago that the navy moved a case to get new MRH. It’s a very crucial operational requirement,” said vice admiral (Retd) Shekhar Sinha, a naval aviator and former Western Naval Command chief.
The Sea King 42/42A models came with aircraft carrier INS Viraat. Bought from the UK, the Viraat was commissioned as the navy’s second carrier in 1987 and retired last year.
The navy came very close to hammering out a deal for 16 Sikorsky S-70B Seahawks a year ago, but the negotiations fell through, forcing the project to return to the drawing board. The takeover of Sikorsky Aircraft by Lockheed Martin affected price negotiations as the defence ministry’s commercial negotiation committee had to deal with a new management, navy sources said.
Shortage of MRH has forced the navy to ration its helicopter resources. “The navy has to beg, borrow and steal to keep the show going,” Sinha said.
It is unclear at this stage what course the navy will take to purchase the new helicopters — whether it will go in for a government-to-government (G2G) deal or float a global tender.
Sources said the US administration has offered the S-70B Seahawk to India under a G2G deal, also known as the foreign military sales programme.
A G2G deal is a contract between two governments that does away with the need to float a tender. Such transactions may be complicated in their conception and execution but are more transparent to financial scrutiny.
Apart from MRH, the navy needs to invest thousands of crores to buy naval utility helicopters (NUH) and naval multi-role helicopters (NMRH).
The navy requires 111 NUH to replace its outdated fleet of French-designed Chetak choppers. A fresh effort to buy these ship-borne utility helicopters got underway in October, with the defence ministry according its “acceptance of necessity” (AoN) to a Rs 21,738-crore programme to replace the Chetaks.
The AoN is only the first step towards buying a weapon or platform in a complex acquisition procedure that can sometimes take up to a decade to translate into a final contract.
“I don’t think AoN is a big deal. There are several programmes that were granted AoN years ago but we are nowhere close to buying those weapons and systems,” said another senior navy officer on condition of anonymity.
What’s worrying is that the majority of India’s 140 warships are operating without integral utility helicopters. These five-tonne class choppers are used for several purposes, including search and rescue operations, medical evacuation, anti-piracy and anti-terrorism operations, communication duties, humanitarian assistance and surveillance.
The US, European and Russian suppliers are expected to compete for the NUH programme by stitching up alliances with Indian firms under the government’s ‘strategic partnership’ model.
Sixteen of the choppers will be bought in flyaway condition from a foreign military contractor, and the remaining 95 will be locally built in partnership with an Indian firm.
Up in the Air
- Navy pushing case to buy new multi-role helicopters (MRH) worth more than Rs 10,000 crore
- The fresh push for 24 MRH is aimed at replacing Sea King 42/42A helicopters that were retired almost two decades ago
- Navy plans to induct 111 naval utility helicopters (NUH) to replace French-designed Chetaks at a cost of Rs 21,738 crore
- If India were to clinch the NUH deal today, the last of the 111 twin-engine choppers will still take 13 years to arrive
- The majority of India’s 140 warships are operating without integral utility helicopters
The navy had released two requests for information for 123 NMRH and 111 NUH this August, seeking details to build the helicopters in the country.
- Plans to buy 123 naval multi-role choppers still on the drawing board
Naval helicopters come with special modifications such as foldable blades for shipboard storage, wheeled landing gear and airframe resistant to salt water corrosion.
Building capability can take years and if decisions are not taken on time, the military suffers. If India were to clinch the NUH deal today, the last of the 111 twin-engine choppers will still take 13 years to arrive.
An older plan to import 56 NUH was scrapped as the government wanted to pursue the programme under the Make in India banner. Besides, the navy had modified its requirements.
Similarly, a previous NMRH tender for 126 helicopters was withdrawn to power the Make in India plan. The NMRH project is expected to move forward under the ‘strategic partnership’ model at a later juncture. The NMRH mission range covers anti-submarine warfare, anti-ship warfare, electronic warfare and carrying marine commandos — roles performed by the navy’s Sea King 42B/42C variants.
Naval helicopter programmes have to be accelerated to overcome shortcomings and keep the force mission ready, said BS Randhawa, a retired vice admiral.
“Remember submarine and surface activity, including Chinese presence, has risen sharply in the Indian Ocean region,” Randhawa said.
“If a warship is not armed with choppers, it’s a serious capability gap. These choppers are a potent part of a vessel in terms of extending its range and overall capabilities for anti-submarine and anti-ship warfare,” a top navy officer said.
The navy also operates a mix of 20 Russian-made Kamov-28 and Kamov-31 helicopters for anti-submarine warfare and electronic warfare respectively. The Kamov-28 fleet is undergoing a midlife upgrade at a cost of Rs 2,000 crore.
Source>>
Indiandefense News at Sunday, December 17, 2017
Is there a alternative HAL helicopter unit can provide to the Indian Navy or is there any thing planned to stop the future capabilities concern....Facing Challenge At Sea, Navy Embarks On Long Road To Upgrade Chopper Fleet
Navy’s push for 24 multi-role helicopters worth Rs 10,000 crore is aimed at adding more air power
India came very close to hammering out a deal for 16 Sikorsky S-70B Seahawks a year ago but the negotiations fell through due to price issues.
The navy is preparing a fresh case for buying new multi-role helicopters (MRH) after failed attempts to fill a key area of deficiency in its capabilities, a senior navy officer said.
The MRH is expected to be the future mainstay of the navy’s anti-submarine, anti-ship warfare and airborne early-warning capabilities that have seen a worrying and persistent deterioration over the last decade.
The new push for 24 MRH worth over Rs 10,000 crore is aimed at replacing the Sea King 42/42A helicopters that were retired almost around two decades ago.
“The replacement is overdue. It was around 15 years ago that the navy moved a case to get new MRH. It’s a very crucial operational requirement,” said vice admiral (Retd) Shekhar Sinha, a naval aviator and former Western Naval Command chief.
The Sea King 42/42A models came with aircraft carrier INS Viraat. Bought from the UK, the Viraat was commissioned as the navy’s second carrier in 1987 and retired last year.
The navy came very close to hammering out a deal for 16 Sikorsky S-70B Seahawks a year ago, but the negotiations fell through, forcing the project to return to the drawing board. The takeover of Sikorsky Aircraft by Lockheed Martin affected price negotiations as the defence ministry’s commercial negotiation committee had to deal with a new management, navy sources said.
Shortage of MRH has forced the navy to ration its helicopter resources. “The navy has to beg, borrow and steal to keep the show going,” Sinha said.
It is unclear at this stage what course the navy will take to purchase the new helicopters — whether it will go in for a government-to-government (G2G) deal or float a global tender.
Sources said the US administration has offered the S-70B Seahawk to India under a G2G deal, also known as the foreign military sales programme.
A G2G deal is a contract between two governments that does away with the need to float a tender. Such transactions may be complicated in their conception and execution but are more transparent to financial scrutiny.
Apart from MRH, the navy needs to invest thousands of crores to buy naval utility helicopters (NUH) and naval multi-role helicopters (NMRH).
The navy requires 111 NUH to replace its outdated fleet of French-designed Chetak choppers. A fresh effort to buy these ship-borne utility helicopters got underway in October, with the defence ministry according its “acceptance of necessity” (AoN) to a Rs 21,738-crore programme to replace the Chetaks.
The AoN is only the first step towards buying a weapon or platform in a complex acquisition procedure that can sometimes take up to a decade to translate into a final contract.
“I don’t think AoN is a big deal. There are several programmes that were granted AoN years ago but we are nowhere close to buying those weapons and systems,” said another senior navy officer on condition of anonymity.
What’s worrying is that the majority of India’s 140 warships are operating without integral utility helicopters. These five-tonne class choppers are used for several purposes, including search and rescue operations, medical evacuation, anti-piracy and anti-terrorism operations, communication duties, humanitarian assistance and surveillance.
The US, European and Russian suppliers are expected to compete for the NUH programme by stitching up alliances with Indian firms under the government’s ‘strategic partnership’ model.
Sixteen of the choppers will be bought in flyaway condition from a foreign military contractor, and the remaining 95 will be locally built in partnership with an Indian firm.
Up in the Air
- Navy pushing case to buy new multi-role helicopters (MRH) worth more than Rs 10,000 crore
- The fresh push for 24 MRH is aimed at replacing Sea King 42/42A helicopters that were retired almost two decades ago
- Navy plans to induct 111 naval utility helicopters (NUH) to replace French-designed Chetaks at a cost of Rs 21,738 crore
- If India were to clinch the NUH deal today, the last of the 111 twin-engine choppers will still take 13 years to arrive
- The majority of India’s 140 warships are operating without integral utility helicopters
The navy had released two requests for information for 123 NMRH and 111 NUH this August, seeking details to build the helicopters in the country.
- Plans to buy 123 naval multi-role choppers still on the drawing board
Naval helicopters come with special modifications such as foldable blades for shipboard storage, wheeled landing gear and airframe resistant to salt water corrosion.
Building capability can take years and if decisions are not taken on time, the military suffers. If India were to clinch the NUH deal today, the last of the 111 twin-engine choppers will still take 13 years to arrive.
An older plan to import 56 NUH was scrapped as the government wanted to pursue the programme under the Make in India banner. Besides, the navy had modified its requirements.
Similarly, a previous NMRH tender for 126 helicopters was withdrawn to power the Make in India plan. The NMRH project is expected to move forward under the ‘strategic partnership’ model at a later juncture. The NMRH mission range covers anti-submarine warfare, anti-ship warfare, electronic warfare and carrying marine commandos — roles performed by the navy’s Sea King 42B/42C variants.
Naval helicopter programmes have to be accelerated to overcome shortcomings and keep the force mission ready, said BS Randhawa, a retired vice admiral.
“Remember submarine and surface activity, including Chinese presence, has risen sharply in the Indian Ocean region,” Randhawa said.
“If a warship is not armed with choppers, it’s a serious capability gap. These choppers are a potent part of a vessel in terms of extending its range and overall capabilities for anti-submarine and anti-ship warfare,” a top navy officer said.
The navy also operates a mix of 20 Russian-made Kamov-28 and Kamov-31 helicopters for anti-submarine warfare and electronic warfare respectively. The Kamov-28 fleet is undergoing a midlife upgrade at a cost of Rs 2,000 crore.
Source>>
Indiandefense News at Sunday, December 17, 2017
There is one under development - IMRH.
Naval Dhruv can be a possibility as NUH.
These costs are not just the fly away cost of each helicopter. Included are maintenance contract, spares, weapons and supplies and training for Indian crew.
The IN and the ICG love the Dhruv. Especially the Rudra variant for its advanced sensors and weapons package. The Dhruv is thoroughly reliable and was extensively used (still being used ) for SAR off the Western coast recently for Op Sahayam.
So once it's blades are made foldable,it could be used for other roles as well.
Automatically folded blades mean that they're powered hydraulically. A serviceman doesn't have to get a crane to manually fold them. Doing that on land where you have all the space you need is okay. Onboard ship, on the helo deck, with perhaps a sea state 4/5, that's just asking for trouble.
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