Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Prashant12]

Make in India: Government shipyards win Rs 12,000 crore deal to supply 16 ASW craft to Navy
Leaving private sector competitors behind, government shipyards -- Cochin Shipyard Limited and Garden Reach Shipyard Limited -- bagged the order to supply 16 anti-submarine warfare (ASW) craft to the Indian Navy.


Under Prime Minister Narendra Modi's 'Make in India' programme, government shipyards are moving ahead of their private sector rivals in warship building as they have emerged winners in a Rs 12,000-crore deal to supply 16 anti-submarine warfare (ASW) craft to the Navy.

"As tenders for the Rs 12,000-crore deal were opened, the shipping ministry's Cochin Shipyard Limited and defence ministry's Garden Reach Shipyard Limited (GRSE) emerged as the two lowest bidders," a defence ministry source told Mail Today.

This is the third open tender deal involving competitive bids in the recent past which has gone to public sector firms. Recently, the Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL) won the contract for building two diving support vessels (DSVs) worth Rs 2,020 crore after it emerged as the lowest bidder.

Under the ASW shallow water craft deal, CSL emerged as the lowest bidder and GRSE the second lowest. The second lowest bidder will have to build the eight crafts at the price offered by the lowest bidder as per the tender issued by the Navy.

As per the defence procurement procedure, the company offering the lowest price for a particular weapon system is given the contract among the firms which meet technical requirements specified in the tender document.

When the private sector firms were allowed to bid for defence contracts, it was felt that they would be quoting lower prices than government firms, but this has proved to be otherwise.

In the recent past, there have been cases where Navy and Coast Guard projects have been delayed by private shipyards and in some of the cases, the delay has been by many years.

In one such case, a Gujarat-based shipyard has been able to supply only one out of six survey vessels ordered by the Navy even 10 years after signing the deal. In another case, a major private shipyard has not supplied even a single patrol vessel out of the contract for five signed more than six years ago.

Some of the major private sector shipyards are facing serious financial constraints and were cleared by the government for receiving tenders only after conditional clearances were granted to them by the defence ministry's finance wing.

Due to the improved performance of defence shipyards, the Goa Shipyard Limited was nominated by the government for partnering with the Russians for manufacturing four Talwar-Class follow-on warships worth more than Rs 20,000 crore.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...to-supply-16-asw-craft-to-navy/1/1069446.html

 

[sthf]

Please elaborate. I can digest the fact that the IN does not have a platform like the Zumawalt Class. But "Arleigh Burke"? Seriously? Please elaborate because I am not getting the point.

Sure.
Arleigh Burke class has a wider beam than Vizag class (our latest), has better LOA/BOC ratio, thus a more stable platform. At the same time has longer range at higher speed.

It had the best radars and armament when it entered its service and will regain its top position when flight III will enter service with AMDR & SM-6.

 

[singhboy98]

Sure.
Arleigh Burke class has a wider beam than Vizag class (our latest), has better LOA/BOC ratio, thus a more stable platform. At the same time has longer range at higher speed.

It had the best radars and armament when it entered its service and will regain its top position when flight III will enter service with AMDR & SM-6.

1.) I thought the ships in question were mono-hull vessels. So I don't know how LOA/BOC ratio comes in the picture. A wider beam has its own shortcomings and is often decided (and I may be wrong here so correct me), IMHO, by the operating conditions in which the vessel is expected to operate. A wider hull may be more suitable for a vessel doing heavy duty load carrying but a destroyer is expected to be stable as well as agile. So, there has to be a trade-off somewhere. And moreover, though I am no naval engineer, is designing a vessel with a wider hull such a difficult task as such? My friends in the relevant department tell me that most of the designing and simulations are done on super-computers (or mainframes). So how does the beam of a vessel tell us the state of the IN design capabilities? Can't it be that the IN has designed its vessel according to its own needs?
2.) About the range. Isn't it more of a statement on the engines (of course the design of the ship is also responsible)? And there is not much of a difference anyway.
3.) On the radars, I believe we are close enough on that front. The armaments on the Visakhapatnam class are just fine IMHO.
I think that the supposed shortcoming of the IN vessels is more of a reflection of the IN operating philosophy. By that, I am referring to the fact that the current generation of IN vessels are designed more on the lines to overwhelm any hostile ships in the neighbourhood (China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia etc.). The USN is still not perceived to be a hostile (enough) force by the IN to spend more time and resources to build ships powerful enough to dominate over anything that the USN fields.

 

[Vinod DX9]

US to Release EMALS Technology for Indian Aircraft Carriers.

The US has decided to release the crucial Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System for the Indian Navy's future aircraft carrier, according to the Trump administration.

The decision comes ahead of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's visit to India. A formal date of the visit has not been announced yet.

The Trump administration has informed India of its decision.

India had sent a letter of request to the US government during the Obama administration for the Electromagnetic Launch System (EMLAS) built by General Atomics for aircraft carrier planned by the Indian Navy.

Due to its flexible architecture, EMALS can launch a wide variety of aircraft weights and can be used on a variety of platforms with differing catapult configurations.

The Trump administration sent a response to India on Monday about its decision to release this technology.

Aerospace expert Dr Vivek Lall, chief executive, US and International Strategic Development, of General Atomics had told earlier that General Atomics is planning to open an office in Delhi to support the Indian government's military requirements.

The Indian Navy plans to integrate the US-made EMALS catapults into its future supercarriers.

 

[sthf]

@singhboy98 Better LOA/BOC ratio provides higher initial stability which is very useful during evasive maneuvers.

Higher speeds and longer ranges matter quite a lot if you are a blue water navy. Primary role of destroyers is to provide air cover to ACs. This means they have to keep up and this is especially problematic with nuclear ACs. Also, theoretically if Arleigh Burke were to travel the same range (2000 nm) as Vizag class it will reach it's destination 25 hours earlier. That is a whole lotta time to do your thing and bug off.

I never said that Vizag class is bad. Infact it is great design for country like India and a proof that had IA or IAF possessed the same zeal towards desi maal things would have been very very different.

 

[binayak95]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/N...Rescue-Submarines-That-India-Is-Buying-444105


Twenty four officers and sailors from the navy are now training on the world's most advanced rescue submarines in Scotland with systems that India has sought for decades - state-of-the-art technology and equipment that can be used to save sailors trapped underwater in submarine catastrophes.

Last year, the government signed a 1,900-crore deal with a British firm for the supply of two complete submarine rescue systems and navy personnel have now begun training on the system in Fort William, Scotland before they are delivered to India next year. The submarine rescue kits which include two Deep Search and Rescue Vehicles (DSRV) or mini-submarines will be positioned in Mumbai and Visakhapatnam where the Indian Navy bases its 14 conventional and 2 nuclear powered submarines.

So far, the navy has relied on a 1997 contract with the US for help in case an Indian submarine has an accident underwater. In the event of such a crisis, the US Navy would fly out its own DSRVs on massive transport aircraft before they are transferred to a ship which would need to sail out to the site of the submarine accident, a time-consuming affair that could cost lives. Now, with its dedicated kit, the Indian Navy will be self-reliant and able to quickly deploy its submarine rescue systems on board ships or fly them out on the Indian Air Force's own C-17 heavy transport jets. According to James Fisher, the manufacturer of the UK submarines that India is buying, "The innovative design and tightly integrated components [of the system being sold to India] will ensure Time-to-First-Rescue - the time measured between deployment of the system and commencement of the rescue itself - is minimised. The systems are heavily optimised for ease of transport and speed of mobilisation to a Vessel of Opportunity."

The two rescue submarines are designed to dock with the hatches of a submarine in distress at depths upto 650 metres, more than three times the operating depth of the rudimentary rescue "bells" which are containers that can be lowered to the submarine in distress and which the navy can operate from its diving support ship, the INS Nireekshak. This ship was originally meant for offshore oil exploration work but was commissioned in 1989 by the cash-strapped navy for SOS operations.

Each "bell" can rescue only a handful of sailors in each rescue attempt. The new rescue submarines being acquired by the navy function independent of the mothership, can locate and engage in a rescue mission more effectively, and rescue a greater number of sailors in each operation.

In August 2013, the INS Sindhurakshak, a Russian built "Kilo" class submarine, sank at the Naval dockyard after an explosion on-board in which 18 sailors were killed. In February 2014, a pair of Lt. Commanders of the Indian Navy were killed after smoke engulfed a compartment of another Indian Navy "Kilo'' class submarine, the INS Sindhuratna, during a training mission off the coast of Mumbai. This prompted the then Navy Chief Admiral DK Joshi to resign while taking responsibility for other accidents in the navy during his watch.

 

[binayak95]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...tprint-in-the-vast-Indian-Ocean-Region-444095

India aggressively expanding Naval footprint in the vast Indian Ocean Region

Highlights

• There are 12 to 15 destroyers, frigates, corvettes and large patrol vessels on long-range deployments in the IOR.
• The plan is to deploy “mission-ready warships” and aircraft along critical sea lanes of communications as well as “choke points”.
• This will be done on a 24x7 basis round the year.

The Navy is ramping up its new "mission-based deployments" in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) stretching from the Persian Gulf to the Malacca Strait, with warships on round-the-clock patrols to meet any operational eventuality from conventional threats and maritime terrorism to piracy and humanitarian disaster relief.

There are 12 to 15 destroyers, frigates, corvettes and large patrol vessels on long-range deployments in the IOR at any given time now, which are backed by naval satellite Rukmini (GSAT-7) and daily sorties by Poseidon-8I maritime patrol aircraft to keep tabs over the vast oceanic expanse.

The plan is to deploy "mission-ready warships" and aircraft along critical sea lanes of communications as well as "choke points" ranging from the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Aden to the Malacca Strait and Sunda Strait. "This will be done on a 24x7 basis round the year, with the warships being sustained and turned around on station. The Indian Navy has emerged as the net security provider and first responder in the region," said a senior officer.

If a Shivalik-class stealth frigate is currently patrolling the Bay of Bengal towards Bangladesh and Myanmar, then a Teg-class frigate is in the vicinity of Madagascar, Mauritius and Seychelles. Similarly, while frigate INS Trishul is deployed for anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf of Aden, a Kora-class corvette is prowling around the Andaman Sea.

This "rebalancing of deployments", of course, is also in response to China sending its warships and submarines into the IOR on a regular basis over the last few years. At least three nuclear and four conventional Chinese submarines, for instance, have been tracked in the IOR since December 2013, as earlier reported by TOI.

The Indian Navy, which currently has 138 warships and 235 aircraft and helicopters, incidentally has plans in place to become a 212-warship and 458-aircraft force by 2027 to protect the country's huge geostrategic interests.

"The four-day naval commanders' conference under Admiral Sunil Lanba, which kicked off on Tuesday, will review and fine-tune this mission-based deployment policy to enhance its effectiveness," said another officer.

"The Navy is pursuing the PM's vision of 'Sagar' (security and growth for all in the region) in a deliberate manner through security cooperation and capacity building initiatives with other nations in the region," he added.

Apart from slowly upgrading military infrastructure in the strategically-located Andaman and Nicobar archipelago, which straddles major global trade routes and can be used as a pivot to counter Chinese moves in the IOR, the Indian Navy is also stepping-up its cooperation with other navies in the region through a series of exercises, coordinated patrols, training exchanges as well as supply of equipment.

Patrol vessel INS Sukanya, for instance, reached Belawan in Indonesia on Tuesday to take part in a coordinated patrolling and bilateral exercise there. India has also offered to train Indonesian Navy in submarine warfare operations, on the lines of training already being provided to the Vietnamese Navy.

Under the "Act East" policy, the intention is to progressively expand military ties with Japan and ASEAN countries like Singapore, Vietnam, Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. "The Indian approach of providing equipment and training is increasingly finding favour in the region. The idea that there can be no growth without security is well understood," said another officer.

 

[MKM]

Naval Group shows support to MDL partnership for stealth submarines

BY SHAURYA KARANBIR GURUNG, ET BUREAU | UPDATED: OCT 24, 2017, 10.09 PM IST


NEW DELHI: French defence major, Naval Group, which in collaboration with an Indian government shipyard, Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL), is producing advanced Scorpene class submarines for India, today strongly supported partnering with MDL again for manufacturing India’s future generation of stealth submarines. Naval Group, which is in the fray with three other foreign firms for providing these new submarines, in a conversation with ET explained that MDL has the requisite team, management, infrastructure and capability to produce these submarines, in comparison to any other shipyard in India.

The development is in relation to the Project 75 (I), which is the follow-on submarine program of the earlier one, Project 75, whose six submarines are being currently produced by MDL through technology transfer from Naval Group, formerly known as DCNS. In mid-July this year, the Indian Navy issued a Request for Information (RFI) for the Project 75 (I) program to six Original Equipment Manufacturers- Naval Group, Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Sweden’s Saab, Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation, Japan’s Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Spain’s Navantia. Sources added that Japan and Spain are out of the fray.

Bernard G Buisson, the Managing Director of Naval Group in India, told ET that on October 16 the firm responded to the RFI, stating that it is compliant with the navy’s requirements. This includes the maximum usage of indigenous content, transfer of technology and weapon systems.

“In a parallel process, the government has to select the Strategic Partner (an Indian firm), but as far as we know this has not started. We are waiting for this selection,” said Buisson.

On being asked if Naval Group sees itself partnering with MDL again for the Project 75 (I) program, Buisson said yes adding that, “Although we are open to collaborating with any shipyard selected by the MOD and navy, but today MDL have proved that they can build submarines. So the investment in this regard is done. They have the team, management and infrastructure to build more submarines. They can build 11 submarines at different stages of construction in Mumbai. They have the same standard as a French shipyard. We will be pleased to continue our strong cooperation with MDL.”

He added, “It will be sad if MDL loses this competency to build submarines if they have no more work beyond the Project 75 program. It has
happened earlier.”

The Project 75 (I) program is the first project under the Defence Procurement Procedure’s Strategic Partnership model, which aims at enhancing indigenous defence manufacturing capabilities through the private sector. When asked if selection of MDL- a government shipyard- would be a loss to the private shipyards- of L&T and Reliance Naval Engineering Limited- in regard to the procurement model, Buisson said, “It is a good thing to increase the capability of the private industry, but it is also important to maintain what has been created. The Defence Ministry should find a win-win situation of how private companies can be incorporated in this approach.”

Meanwhile, French Defence Minister Florence Parly will visit MDL facility in Mumbai and view Kalvari, the first Scorpene class submarine which is likely to commissioned by end of this year. “She will be given a briefing by the Western Naval Command,” said Buisson. Parly is also likely to discuss the two submarine programs with her counterpart, Nirmala Sitharaman.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.comhttps://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/naval-group-shows-support-to-mdl-partnership-for-stealth-submarines/printarticle/61208614.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[Kalki_2018]

Scorpene or any mod is out for P-75I. It will be between the Russian sub and German one.

 

[Armand2REP]

Scorpene or any mod is out for P-75I. It will be between the Russian sub and German one.

Actually the French offer will automatically win as lowest bidder since the infrastructure investment will be subtracted from the cost.

 

[NeXoft007]

It seems this is the final design of Project 17A frigate

 

[porky_kicker]

It seems this is the final design of Project 17A frigate
View attachment 21321

just saying.....

why does it look familiar to a british frigate especially the integrated mast

and the CIWS looks like the german rhienmetal mantis gun system

and the main gun dont look like the oto malera gun which would have been the obvious choice

 

[NeXoft007]

why does it look familiar to a british frigate especially the integrated mast

and the CIWS looks like the german rhienmetal mantis gun system

We are spending a freaking 1 Billion $ per frigate. Why would one expect non-surprising things onboard P17As?

 

[porky_kicker]

We are spending a freaking 1 Billion $ per frigate. Why would one expect non-surprising things onboard P17As?

money spent need not necessarily translate into potency

anyways personally i am disappointed if thats the final design , becz there was another drawing floating around which was much better atleast from my perspective.

i am no expert so lets leave at that

besi mathamari labhe ase ni , theak kolune na nai

anyways where did u source it from

any additional info

 

[ash2win]

It seems this is the final design of Project 17A frigate
View attachment 21321

Thats Thales I-Mast. Very unlikely to be on P17A.

 

[NeXoft007]

money spent need not necessarily translate into potency

anyways personally i am disappointed if thats the final design , becz there was another drawing floating around which was much better atleast from my perspective.

i am no expert so lets leave at that

besi mathamari labhe ase ni , theak kolune na nai

anyways where did u source it from

any additional info

GRSE Annual Report 2015-16. This is their latest publication of Annual Report.

Apuni okhomiya hoi ne nohoi?

 

[aditya g]

Totally facepalm advert by GRSE. The design looks like a copy paste of several designs.... but surely is not a Project-17A as MF-STAR and Oto Melara guns are confirmed.

 

[NeXoft007]

Photoshop Alert!
A Twitter user informed me that's a photoshopped pic of this 4 year old German Design. Didn't expect GRSE to publish a photoshopped pic of P17A

 

[porky_kicker]

GRSE Annual Report 2015-16. This is their latest publication of Annual Report.

Apuni okhomiya hoi ne nohoi?

thanks

moi okhomiya hoi aru nohoi :biggrin2:

kintu moi janu moi manhu hoi :biggrin2:

 

[R A Varun]

i dont think this is thir design as 6000 tonne frigate doesnt seems look like this so,