Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

arnabmit

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@Kunal Biswas @Decklander

Why are we moving from Khastan-M to AK-630 on all our recent acquisitions? Isn't Khastan-M, specially with it's VSHORAD missiles, a much more potent CIWS platform than the AK-630?
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Khastan-M Production is closed, there are other CIWS in development ..

AK-630 are made in India so its spares and ammo are available within our country in cheap and fast..

@Kunal Biswas @Decklander

Why are we moving from Khastan-M to AK-630 on all our recent acquisitions? Isn't Khastan-M, specially with it's VSHORAD missiles, a much more potent CIWS platform than the AK-630?
 
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arnabmit

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Khastan-M Production is closed, there are other CIWS in development ..

AK-630 are made in India so its spares and ammo are available within our country in cheap and fast..
Is there anything coming after Kashtan-M? It was the best CIWS platform from what I read... much better than Phalanx+SeaRAM combo.

Maybe something based on the Pantsir?
 

Kunal Biswas

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Cannot say, I dont have much info now ..


Is there anything coming after Kashtan-M? It was the best CIWS platform from what I read... much better than Phalanx+SeaRAM combo.

Maybe something based on the Pantsir?
 

arnabmit

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Indian Navy fights with an ageing submarine fleet | idrw.org

The incident on board the Sindhurakshak is considered to be a big blow for the Indian Navy, considering the ageing fleet of submarines that the Navy operates with. The current condition is such that it very difficult or rather nearly impossible to have all the submarines in fully operational condition.

Naval officials said most of the existing fleet of Indian submarines were brought in the late 80's and are on the verge of being decommissioned. In 1999, the Cabinet Committee on Security had worked out a 30-year plan to build submarines for the navy.

According to the envisaged plan, 12 new submarines were to be inducted to the navy by 2012, and was to be supplemented with 12 more submarines by 2030. But the navy which soon went out of favour of the government's priority, coupled with red tape has seen that the Navy has not received a single new submarine since it commissioned INS Sindhurashtra in 2000.

The explosion on INS Sindhurakshak has made the alarm bells ring as the Scorpene project has been running way beyond schedule, and the Navy would soon have to retire its 10 Kilo class Russian and four German HDW submarines in a phased manner. Also the Rs.50,000 crore P-75I is yet to be approved, and would take at least another 12 years for the first submarine to be built, said sources in the Navy.

A senior navy officer, requesting anonymity said, "There are chances that India will have to operate with about six submarines by 2020." This figure is way less to the near 18 submarines that the Indian Navy needs to act as a deterrent to the ever growing naval capabilities of both China and Pakistan.
 

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I'm curious as to why there are no concrete plans for domestically manufactured SSNs. SSKs don't really have the legs to deal with China.
 

arnabmit

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India, Russia Discuss Submarine-Building – Source | idrw.org

SOURCE: RIA Novosti

An Indian military delegation has arrived in St. Petersburg to discuss military-technical collaboration in submarine-building, a Russian defense industry source told RIA on Thursday, days after a Russian-made sub in India's navy exploded.

"It is a routine meeting of a joint [Russian-Indian] working group that had been scheduled long before the explosion on the INS Sindhurakshak," the source said on condition of anonymity. "The Indian delegation is headed by the Indian navy's chief of materiel, Vice Admiral Nadella Niranjan Kumar."

The Sindhurakshak, one of 10 Russian-built Kilo-class submarines in service with the Indian navy, blew up and sank at its moorings in the port of Mumbai last week, killing 18 crewmembers.

The boat had been recently refitted in Russia and returned to service in January. Russia has offered to send a team of experts to assist India in the investigation of the accident.

According to the source, the agenda of the talks included the possibility of a second round of upgrading for India's Kilo-class (Project 877 EKM) diesel-electric submarines, as well as Russian participation in the Indian tender for six new diesel-electric subs and other issues aimed at boosting the development of India's submarine fleet.

The discussion of the recent accident with Sindhurakshak may also be on the agenda, the source added.

Meanwhile, several Indian media outlets have speculated that the Indian navy may lease additional Kilo-class subs from Russia to maintain combat readiness of its submarine fleet.
 

arnabmit

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Indian Navy Requests New Patrol Aircraft | idrw.org

SOURCE: AION ONLINE

India's Ministry of Defense (MoD) has issued a request for proposal for nine medium-range maritime reconnaissance (MRMR) aircraft for the Indian Navy, plus 38 anti-ship missiles. The Navy has taken delivery of the first of eight Boeing P-8I Poseidon jets, and Boeing Harpoon anti-ship missiles. Although the new RFP seems to encourage smaller, lower-cost airframes and weapons, its terms may limit the bids.

The RFP states the aircraft must fly a transit of 400 nm at 300 knots and patrol 400 nm for four hours at a height of 10,000 feet, configured with two missiles with a range of about 50 nm. The MoD has called for a pre-bid meeting with the vendors in early October to clarify queries. "It is confusing. Does the Indian navy want turboprops or jets?" asked one potential vendor.

The RFP was sent to eight potential vendors: Airbus Military (for the C-295 MPA); Alenia (for the ATR 72 MPA); Antonov (for an MPA based on the An-70); Boeing; Elta (for an MPA based on the Bombardier Q400); Lockheed Martin (for the SC-130 version of the Hercules); Saab (for the 340 or 2000 MSAs); and Embraer (for anEMB-145-based MPA).

It is believed that as an alternative to more P-8Is, Boeing could propose its maritime surveillance aircraft (MSA) with the recently identified Bombardier Challenger 605 as the platform. This has the same sensor suite as already carried by the P-8A Poseidon, but could offer lower operating costs. "As [they do] elsewhere in the world, price matters and capability matters"¦we are in discussions with a number of Asia-Pacific countries, and there are several customers interested in [the MSA's] capabilities," Chris Chadwick, president of Boeing Military Aircraft, said at the Paris Air Show in June.

Some in the industry have questioned the logic of the Indian Navy's choosing the same platform for the MRMR as it did for the long-range requirement for which the P-8I was chosen. "Jets are not efficient doing patrol at low levels and dropping life rafts. Ideally, the navy needs three sizes of aircraft," said an official related to manufacturing.
 

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Submarine shock: Antony fast-tracks projects


NEW DELHI: Jolted by the sinking of submarine INS Sindhurakshak, the government is finally undertaking a three-pronged strategy to ensure the country's weakening underwater combat arm is not blunted any further.

With submarines being critical for neutralizing hostile warships, laying offensive mine-fields and blockading enemy harbours, the aim is to retain the "combat edge" over Pakistan and maintain "dissuasive defence" against China.

Sources said defence minister A K Antony has directed that top priority should be given to maintaining the "health" of the existing 13 conventional diesel-electric submarines - 11 of which are 20-27 years old -- through "faster" life-extension, upgrade and maintenance refits.

The Navy can currently deploy just seven to eight of its 13 aging submarines, which includes nine Kilo or Sindhugosh-class vessels of Russian-origin and four HDW or Shishumar-class boats of German origin, as was first reported by TOI last week.

Second, there should be no more slippages in the ongoing construction of six French Scorpene submarines at Mazagon Docks (MDL) in Mumbai, under the Rs 23,562 crore programme called 'Project-75', which is already running four years behind schedule.

Most importantly, Antony has now asked officials to "expedite" the 30-year submarine building plan, which was approved by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) way back in July 1999 but has been stuck in the doldrums for years.

It envisaged induction of the first dozen submarines - six each under Project-75 and 'Project-75India' with foreign collaboration - by 2012. Another 12 submarines with "totally indigenous design" were to be inducted in the 2012-2030 timeframe. But 14 years later, Navy is yet to induct even one of the 24 planned submarines.

The "draft CCS note" for the long-delayed Project-75I, under which the six stealth submarines will be armed with both land-attack missiles and air-independent propulsion (AIP) for greater underwater endurance, is now finally ready. "The note will be sent to CCS for approval within a month or so," said a source.

The fresh CCS nod is needed because the over Rs 50,000 crore Project-75I will see the first two submarines being directly imported from the foreign collaborator to save time, while three will be constructed at MDL, and the sixth at Hindustan Shipyard (HSL) in Visakhapatnam. The earlier CCS clearance was for all six vessels to be constructed in India.

Since it will take a decade for the first submarine to roll out under Project-75I, MoD is also stressing upon timely refits for ensuring operational availability of submarines. Two Kilo and two HDW submarines are stuck in prolonged "mid-life medium-refit cum upgrades" at HSL and Mumbai naval dockyard. Another two vessels are undergoing the relatively shorter "assistance maintenance" programmes. "One Kilo-class submarine, for instance, has been at HSL for several years," the source said.

The first Scorpene submarine, in turn, will now be delivered by November 2016. "MDL has assured MoD that one submarine will thereafter roll out every 10-11 months. All the six hulls are ready," he said.



Submarine shock: Antony fast-tracks projects - The Times of India
 

arnabmit

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Indian Navy’s quest for deep sea rescue vehicle almost over | idrw.org

SOURCE: INDIA TODAY

The Indian Navy's much delayed plan to acquire the Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle (DSRV), a pressurised capsule meant to rescue sailors from disaster-struck submarines at sea, has made some headway with the completion of technical evaluation of two contenders.

Two companies, one each from the United Kingdom and Russia, are in the fray for the project. Sources said the technical evaluation of both has been concluded, and the process is set to move forward pending the defence ministry's nod.

The navy is hopeful that the DSRV will be acquired within the next two years.The need to procure a DSRV has long been felt by the Navy, but the pursuit has gained a sense of urgency in the wake of the accident involving the INS Sindhurakshak which killed all 18 personnel on board.

INS Sindhurakshak was rocked by explosions when the submarine was berthed in the dockyard, but the danger of the navy's ageing fleet of underwater boats meeting a mishap in deep sea is frighteningly real.

India has 15 submarines, most of which are old. Apart from the nine Russian kilo class submarines equipped with land attack missiles, the navy operates four German type 209 attack submarines and a single nuclear powered INS Chakra, an Akula class submarine leased from Russia.

The process to acquire the DSRV was started more than five years ago, and bids invited in 2010. The navy is looking for a vehicle in the 3,000-tonne category and at the time, platforms still under development were also under consideration.

 

arnabmit

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Indian Navy’s dubious safety record worrisome for national security | idrw.org

In November 2011, the Indian Navy was particularly incensed with what a US naval lieutenant had posted on a blog. The unnamed lieutenant, who spent four days on destroyer INS Delhi in the Arabian Sea as part of an exchange programme, called the Indian crew "generally clueless", with "almost zero seamanship skills". This was one in a long, harsh critique of what he saw on the frontline warship. The blog was removed days after it was posted.


Did the blog touch a raw nerve? Just 10 months earlier, the naval frigate INS Vindhyagiri collided with a merchant tanker in Mumbai harbour sank. It was the fourth time a warship was completely written off in 23 years. Since 1990, the Indian Navy has lost one warship in peacetime every five years. Since 2004, it has lost one naval combatant every two years. Few global navies have such a dubious record. Five days after the August 14 explosion destroyed INS Sindhurakshak, killing 18 crew members, Defence Minister A.K. Antony told Rajya Sabha that "preliminary probe indicated the blast was due to possible ignition of armament". Armed with torpedoes and missiles, the submarine was fully fuelled and ready to sail for patrol early next morning.

Former southern naval chief Vice Admiral K.N. Sushil (retired) cautions it is too early to conclude it sank due to negligence. Evidence points to a blast in an oxygen-powered torpedo, he says. "The Navy must do a forensic examination to pinpoint the cause," he says.

What is worrying is that with each warship loss, key maritime capabilities are being lost. The Sindhurakshak had returned from Russia four months ago, and after a two-and-a-half year refit, was the Navy's most potent conventional submarine. The frigate INS Vindhyagiri was the only warship that could control spy drones far out at sea.

Peacetime losses of warships are not uncommon. Since the World War II, the US Navy has lost 16 warships in accidents. Russia's nuclear submarine Kursk sank in August 2000 after a faulty torpedo exploded during a training exercise. But in case of the smaller Indian Navy-it only has 30 frontline warships and 14 submarines-they point to a far disturbing trend, of human rather than technical error. The Prahar and Vindhyagiri collided with lumbering merchant vessels. The INS Agray was cut into half in 2004 when a crew member tossed a misfired anti-submarine rocket overboard. The spate of accidents comes at a time when the fleet is expanding in both size and complexity. Last year, it acquired INS Chakra, its first nuclear-powered attack submarine from Russia. It is set to induct its largest ship, the 44,000-tonne aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, from Russia this year. Former eastern naval commander Vice Admiral A.K. Singh (retired) slams the Government's apathy. "The Navy is operating vessels long past their service years of 25 and 30 years as the government doesn't sanction new ones in time," he says.

Ageing ships alone do not explain other accidents and collisions. Naval officials say there are a series of smaller mishaps that point to Standard Operating Procedures (sops) not being followed. The August 2009 collision of the missile corvette INS Kuthar with destroyer INS Ranvir in the Bay of Bengal was traced to a rudder failure, compounded by a flawed manoeuvre. In 2010, three crew men on destroyer INS Mumbai were instantly killed when an AK-630 Gatling gun went off as safety drills were not followed. The submarine INS Sindhughosh collided twice; once with a fishing boat in 2006 and once with a merchant vessel in 2007. "The Navy has put in place multiple, institutionalised methods and procedures towards enhancing safety," a naval spokesperson said, responding to a questionnaire. "Each type of unit has a Safety Class Authority that oversees safety aspects and guides safety related policy. On completion of major repairs, all units undergo a safety audit, prior joining respective formations."

"The problem is that we aren't empowering our young officers," admits a senior naval officer, echoing what the US navy blogger said. Experience levels have suffered as there is a mismatch between number of warships and officers. Each year, 60 captain-ranked officers vie for the command of 15-20 warships. "A decade ago, a captain got two 18-month long sea tenures, allowing him to build up experience; today he gets only one," says a naval officer.

"Adequate sea tenures are provided to all concerned," a naval spokesperson said.

In 2006, then defence minister Pranab Mukherjee pulled Navy brass up after a spate of accidents. Accidents have however continued despite 'safety stand down' procedures performed on all warships every quarter, and court-martials. The loss of the Sindhurakshak has now pushed them to unacceptable levels.
 

dealwithit

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India should have full fledged university on Marine Technology.. should not be in Mumbai.
It is more important now as skill set in each field is so poor..
 

dealwithit

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India to fast track multiple submarine deals

After losing INS Sindhurakshak in a fire last week which gutted the submarine killing all 18 several crew members. India is fast tracking many deals to lease , purchase or import submarines to reinforce depleting submarine fleet of Indian navy . Loss of INS Sindhurakshak was a big blow to Indian Navy , not only was it recently upgraded submarine but also one of the youngest ( 16 years) submarine in Naval arsenal .

The request for proposals (RFPs) for the $11.8-bn Project 75-I submarines of the Indian Navy is expected to be issued shortly. But Navy has made some changes and Two submarines would be acquired from a selected foreign shipyard and the remaining four would be built by the state-owned Mazagon Dock and Hindustan Shipyard. Apart from plans to allow private local shipbuilders to participate in this project.

India is also Negotiating with Russia on leasing Second Akula II class 'Nerpa' Nuclear submarine . under Project 75 India will get first Scorpene submarine which will join Indian Navy only in 2015 or later due to four years delays faced in the project . on event of loss of INS Sindhurakshak India is considering leasing two Diesel powered Kilo submarines from Russia , but according to Defence Analysts current Kilo submarines in Russian fleet are not upgraded to latest standard and it is unlikely that Russian Navy will have extra kilo submarines to spare .

According to Naval sources India may ask winner of Project 75-I for leasing of such submarines from their fleet if Russia cannot provide Kilo submarines , Foreign companies, including Rosoboron export's Amur 1650 (Russia), DCNS's Scorpene (France), HDW Type 214 (Germany) and Navantia's S-80 (Spain) were the possible candidates for the P75-I $11.8-billion project. However, officials said the Spanish company has withdrawn its technical specifications due to weight issues with their submarine.

Under Project 75-I Diesel Submarines are going to be a bigger submarine than Scorpène and will be equipped with both tube-launched missiles for land-attack capabilities as well as AIP (air-independent propulsion) for enhanced underwater capability, SLCM BrahMos will also be a standard fitment in this submarines .
 

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In November 2011, the Indian Navy was particularly incensed with what a US naval lieutenant had posted on a blog. The unnamed lieutenant, who spent four days on destroyer INS Delhi in the Arabian Sea as part of an exchange programme, called the Indian crew "generally clueless", with "almost zero seamanship skills". This was one in a long, harsh critique of what he saw on the frontline warship. The blog was removed days after it was posted.
The supposed 4 day stay in the Indian navy frigate has been proved to be a complete fake one and was removed by red.edit....
 

arnabmit

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India to fast track multiple submarine deals | idrw.org

After losing INS Sindhurakshak in a fire last week which gutted the submarine killing all 18 several crew members. India is fast tracking many deals to lease , purchase or import submarines to reinforce depleting submarine fleet of Indian navy . Loss of INS Sindhurakshak was a big blow to Indian Navy , not only was it recently upgraded submarine but also one of the youngest ( 16 years) submarine in Naval arsenal .

The request for proposals (RFPs) for the $11.8-bn Project 75-I submarines of the Indian Navy is expected to be issued shortly. But Navy has made some changes and Two submarines would be acquired from a selected foreign shipyard and the remaining four would be built by the state-owned Mazagon Dock and Hindustan Shipyard. Apart from plans to allow private local shipbuilders to participate in this project.

India is also Negotiating with Russia on leasing Second Akula II class 'Nerpa' Nuclear submarine . under Project 75 India will get first Scorpene submarine which will join Indian Navy only in 2015 or later due to four years delays faced in the project . on event of loss of INS Sindhurakshak India is considering leasing two Diesel powered Kilo submarines from Russia , but according to Defence Analysts current Kilo submarines in Russian fleet are not upgraded to latest standard and it is unlikely that Russian Navy will have extra kilo submarines to spare .

According to Naval sources India may ask winner of Project 75-I for leasing of such submarines from their fleet if Russia cannot provide Kilo submarines , Foreign companies, including Rosoboron export's Amur 1650 (Russia), DCNS's Scorpene (France), HDW Type 214 (Germany) and Navantia's S-80 (Spain) were the possible candidates for the P75-I $11.8-billion project. However, officials said the Spanish company has withdrawn its technical specifications due to weight issues with their submarine.

Under Project 75-I Diesel Submarines are going to be a bigger submarine than Scorpène and will be equipped with both tube-launched missiles for land-attack capabilities as well as AIP (air-independent propulsion) for enhanced underwater capability, SLCM BrahMos will also be a standard fitment in this submarines .
 

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Naval met analysis centre inaugurated

Giving a major fillip to weather prediction, a vital factor in Naval operations' planning, the Indian Naval Meteorological Analysis Centre (INMAC) was inaugurated at the Naval Base here on Friday.

Vice-Admiral Pradip Kumar Chatterjee, Deputy Chief of Naval Staff, inaugurated the facility in the presence of Vice-Admiral Satish Soni, Commanding-in-Chief of Southern Naval Command.

INMAC will synergise the advantages of different methodologies of forecasting -- synoptic, climatology-persistence and numerical weather prediction techniques, with advanced satellite data processing techniques, to ensure speed and objectivity in forecasts.

INMAC, on reception of meteorological data from Indian Meteorological Department, will disseminate this to meteorological offices of the Navy across the country through intranet, after due analysis, plotting and processing. The distribution and dissemination of data is facilitated through a propriety software provided by Wipro, the executor of the project, through Corobor MESSIR systems.

The forecasts, for any location across the globe would be available to Navy's operation rooms, platforms and aircraft.
Naval met analysis centre inaugurated - The New Indian Express
 

arnabmit

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@Kunal Biswas Dada! I guessed right! Now just need to wait and watch if MoD has enough sense to go for them for IN ships...

Russia to Arm Warships With Pantsir Air Defense System | idrw.org
SOURCE: RIA Novosti

A naval variant of the Pantsir short-range air defense system will enter service with the Russian Navy in about two years, one of the system's developers said Wednesday.

"The Defense Ministry showed great interest in the naval variant of the Pantsir. It has been decided that several destroyers and other large warships will be modernized to accommodate the system," said Dmitry Konoplev, managing director of the KBP Instrument Design Bureau.

"I think that it will be done in the near future, in the next year or two," Konoplev said.

The ground version of the Pantsir is a combined gun-missile air defense system featuring a wheeled vehicle mounting a fire-control radar and electro-optical sensor, two 30-mm cannons and up to a dozen 57E6 radio-command-guided short-range missiles.

The system is designed to take on a variety of targets flying at low level, including cruise missiles and aircraft, and can effectively engage targets at up to 20 kilometers.

A maneuverable track-bearing variant is currently being developed by Russia's High Precision Weapons corporation, to be put in service with the Russian Ground Forces and Airborne Troops in the near future.

Meanwhile, the High Precision Weapons corporation has started work on the development of a next-generation Pantsir system, expected to be completed in 2017.

"I think we will see a completely new Pantsir in about three years. Its technical characteristics will be absolutely superior to those that the existing system has," the company's general director, Alexander Denisov, told RIA Novosti.

@Kunal Biswas @Decklander

Why are we moving from Khastan-M to AK-630 on all our recent acquisitions? Isn't Khastan-M, specially with it's VSHORAD missiles, a much more potent CIWS platform than the AK-630?
Khastan-M Production is closed, there are other CIWS in development ..

AK-630 are made in India so its spares and ammo are available within our country in cheap and fast..
Is there anything coming after Kashtan-M? It was the best CIWS platform from what I read... much better than Phalanx+SeaRAM combo.

Maybe something based on the Pantsir?
Cannot say, I dont have much info now ..
 
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arnabmit

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[video=youtube_share;AdGZ5y8aEyI]http://youtu.be/AdGZ5y8aEyI[/video]

[video=youtube_share;ywcnw8r-CAo]http://youtu.be/ywcnw8r-CAo[/video]

God knows when we will get the naval variant for IN Ships, and the S1 variant to replace the vintage 9K22 Tunguska systems...

Russian Pantsir-S1 gun-missile air defense system shot down real cruise missile firing test

Once we get them, Babur and Raad bye bye!

But trust MoD to drag its feet... even after this: 'Pakistan cruise missiles pose key challenge to India'
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Such system shoot down drones, If media report such things its either lack of understanding or Russian PR for there products ..

Barak are more accurate and faster than these, combine with AK-630 they are more than enough for sub sonic ASHM ..

 

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