Indian Human Spaceflight Program (HSP)

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,277
Likes
56,182
Country flag
Please watch the C-53 post launch press conference which I posted earlier in ISRO thread and also read that annual report, they clearly said there will be 2 inflight abort tests this year, only now they pushed the 1st test to dec
This year having 2 unmanned demonstrations was a 6 months old announcements essentially that was dismissed itself by officials in first quarter even if it has continued in C-53 assessment and annual report which were planned and drafted beforehand.
I don't think they care about their credibility. Its a government organization after all, whether they deliver or not, their jobs are guaranteed and pensions as well. Besides COVID has been a great help, can blame any late schedule on it.
Off course, supply chain and production don't mean anything. ISRO despite COVID strangulated all the vendors and suppliers, could have made rockets out of thin layer. Seriously, do people even barely know anything about launch vehicle fabrication?
Or even how long does it take to human-rate and prepare systems to execute a human mission just after getting ready for it?
 

Blademaster

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
9,351
Likes
27,267
No it is the ISRO being irresponsible. They have missed so many deadlines and look at the rate of progress by China. ISRO looks like a bunch of clowns at the moment.
 

TopWatcher

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2022
Messages
1,676
Likes
4,504
Country flag
It is pertinent to note that ISRO's Gaganyaan mission envisages undertaking the demonstration of human spaceflight to Low Earth Orbit (LEO) in the short term and to lay the foundation for a sustained Indian human space exploration programme in the long run.

Here you talking about Indian Space Station ?
 

DEV1729

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
3,265
Likes
16,010
Country flag
I am afraid of these noobs at PMO forcing the mission before 2024 elections. I was already unhappy with the way Modi announced this mission. It forced so many compromises, such as relying on Russians for crew training, no new launch pad, etc. Not that its clear that we won't even have a single unmanned flight this year and even one of the PAD abort tests have been pushed back to next year, these politicians are still irresponsibly claiming that the manned mission will happen by next year when its clear it won't happen even before 2024 elections.
Imagine how much pressure they will be putting on ISRO behind the scenes if this is what they are doing in public.
I hope isro must resist the bjp forcing timelines for political posturing like the ussr did which resulted in the death of vladimir komarov.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,277
Likes
56,182
Country flag
Man, its so frustrating tbh, they earlier said that there would be 2 inflight abort tests this year....1st test was supposed to happen this month followed by the 2nd one in oct....later this was changed to 1st test in sept & 2nd test in December....now they pushed the 1st test to December.....why can't they announce the launch date when they are fully ready, instead of this "end of the month or beginning of next month", " End of this year or early next year", " mid next year", "end of next year" statements....it's just bad PR and makes people to lose confidence in them & destroys their credibility.
I don't think they care about their credibility. Its a government organization after all, whether they deliver or not, their jobs are guaranteed and pensions as well. Besides COVID has been a great help, can blame any late schedule on it.
Government doesn't measure it's "credibility" in terms of approvals from online ill-informed opinion makers, that don't make any difference.
It's a large eco-system consisting of government PSUs, private vendors thousands of employees and a complete supply chain.
There many things like delayed release of funds (may be required for government for somewhere else first), shifting priorities like satellite bands, natural factors like weather & floods, sickness or even death of leading staff, failure of experiments that were expected to pass, fabrication delay which is nearly unavoidable in every non-automatic workshop, breakdowns of machines, similar reasons on part of vendor, supplier or foreign vendor for same reason, people taking tenders to court or environmental activists harrassinf with NGT, and so forth.
Beyond all these things, it's a first for ISRO so they will discover a new requirement at the end of every experiment that would need to include in.

As far as aerospace sector is concerned, even longer delays than India's aren't a strange thing even in Japan since it's not a mass production bolting thing like automotives. Except for having a mass production fabrication industry for rockets and planes like USA, you can have nothing on time.

Pushing anything for the sake of PR won't give any other output than burnt dead bodies of astronauts. So it's better that ISRO is working as per requirements without giving two hoots about online opinions of few minions.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,277
Likes
56,182
Country flag
No it is the ISRO being irresponsible. They have missed so many deadlines and look at the rate of progress by China. ISRO looks like a bunch of clowns at the moment.
Not really, human spaceflight was any easy task for known. China had trying to send humans into space since early 70s. Even after finalising a brand new program in 1993 like ISRO did in 2018, it took them 10 years (2003) for first manned spaceflight. And it still remains very limited till date.
 

_merlin_

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
52
Likes
146
Country flag
This year having 2 unmanned demonstrations was a 6 months old announcements essentially that was dismissed itself by officials in first quarter even if it has continued in C-53 assessment and annual report which were planned and drafted beforehand.

Off course, supply chain and production don't mean anything. ISRO despite COVID strangulated all the vendors and suppliers, could have made rockets out of thin layer. Seriously, do people even barely know anything about launch vehicle fabrication?
Or even how long does it take to human-rate and prepare systems to execute a human mission just after getting ready for it?
What is the launch rate for China/EU/SpaceX? They don't have vendors and suppliers I suppose. Its high time we called out delays from ISRO side due to excuse of COVID and not try to hide behind stupid gyan of rockets, thin air, etc. Not all of us were born yesterday.
 

_merlin_

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
52
Likes
146
Country flag
Government doesn't measure it's "credibility" in terms of approvals from online ill-informed opinion makers, that don't make any difference.
It's a large eco-system consisting of government PSUs, private vendors thousands of employees and a complete supply chain.
There many things like delayed release of funds (may be required for government for somewhere else first), shifting priorities like satellite bands, natural factors like weather & floods, sickness or even death of leading staff, failure of experiments that were expected to pass, fabrication delay which is nearly unavoidable in every non-automatic workshop, breakdowns of machines, similar reasons on part of vendor, supplier or foreign vendor for same reason, people taking tenders to court or environmental activists harrassinf with NGT, and so forth.
Beyond all these things, it's a first for ISRO so they will discover a new requirement at the end of every experiment that would need to include in.

As far as aerospace sector is concerned, even longer delays than India's aren't a strange thing even in Japan since it's not a mass production bolting thing like automotives. Except for having a mass production fabrication industry for rockets and planes like USA, you can have nothing on time.

Pushing anything for the sake of PR won't give any other output than burnt dead bodies of astronauts. So it's better that ISRO is working as per requirements without giving two hoots about online opinions of few minions.
Let ISRO stop giving out dates if they can't meet them. If it takes 2025 before anyone can fly, so be it. Stop giving out dates you know you can't meet. Not hard to understand now, is it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SKC

Blademaster

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
9,351
Likes
27,267
Let ISRO stop giving out dates if they can't meet them. If it takes 2025 before anyone can fly, so be it. Stop giving out dates you know you can't meet. Not hard to understand now, is it?
No we need dates as a way to obtain accountability and measure of improvement and productivity.
 

Vamsi

New Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
4,858
Likes
29,459
Country flag
I am afraid of these noobs at PMO forcing the mission before 2024 elections. I was already unhappy with the way Modi announced this mission. It forced so many compromises, such as relying on Russians for crew training, no new launch pad, etc. Not that its clear that we won't even have a single unmanned flight this year and even one of the PAD abort tests have been pushed back to next year, these politicians are still irresponsibly claiming that the manned mission will happen by next year when its clear it won't happen even before 2024 elections.
Imagine how much pressure they will be putting on ISRO behind the scenes if this is what they are doing in public.
ISRO chairman made it clear in the C-53 press conference that the 1st unmanned flight will only be in mid-2023, I'm sure he won't say this to media without informing PMO 1st.The compromises are not worst as you may think. Only initial training is done in Russia, while mission specific & spacecraft specific training are happening India right now,while the Chinese for their 1st mission are trained fully in Russia, there spacecraft is also enlarged copy of soyuz, while ours is more than 90% Indian including the ECLSS. Present max possible launch capacity of SDSC with 2 LPs is 26 launches, they aren't even utilising 50% of that capacity,what will they do with TLP. Modifying 2nd LP is actually reducing costs. They will eventually build TLP is future. I'm not supporting mudi here,but if mudi really wants Gaganyaan for election stunt,then he would have done same for CY-2 in April 2019 too,but he didn't.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,277
Likes
56,182
Country flag
What is the launch rate for China/EU/SpaceX? They don't have vendors and suppliers I suppose.
They are largest section of private aerospace manufacturers, certain government agencies only backed by private suppliers and account for 70 to 75% global aerospace. In US, there is barely anything in aerospace that doesn't have private vendors and suppliers, China essentially operates all suppliers under state control which operate like private vendors (also doesn't change that they still have one of largest number of private aerospace players which even rank among largest firms).

That explains the, high heavy+medium launch rate of US with 50% of global aerospace industry and EU (low launch rate for heavy launchers) and China (high launch rates for medium and small launchers).

Its high time we called out delays from ISRO side due to excuse of COVID and not try to hide behind stupid gyan of rockets, thin air, etc. Not all of us were born yesterday.
Trust me, gyan is never stupid. Only thing what you should call stupid is unwarranted and unknowledgeable fan opinion.

You or entire Janata "calling out" ISRO doesn't make any kind of positive or negative rise contribution to ISRO since your opinion is nothing more than an angry fan rant and is completely free of any kind of arguments analysed of facts or reasonable analysis (sorry).
Let ISRO stop giving out dates if they can't meet them. If it takes 2025 before anyone can fly, so be it. Stop giving out dates you know you can't meet. Not hard to understand now, is it?
ISRO doesn't have a assembly line like production of spacecrafts nor they have budget. Every spacecraft is different, tailor made on specific requirements and hence needs rigorous experiments and new equipments which obviously would call delays. I would call it perfectly fine. Estimated dates for executing missions have been given and revised often for public information and not PR.

ISRO isn't an automotive company with production rates on mind today and idle tomorrow. It's a research agency which it should always stick too.

We are barely anything in aerospace especially in terms of volume even if we have gained some technological gains since 90s. We can't maintain high launch rates with accurate launch dates for 8 to 10 years more at least.
ISRO chairman made it clear in the C-53 press conference that the 1st unmanned flight will only be in mid-2023, I'm sure
He did.
That's what I'm saying that mission may be pulled here in 2022 itself.
Present max possible launch capacity of SDSC with 2 LPs is 26 launches, they aren't even utilising 50% of that capacity,what will they do with TLP.
You are only accounting reconditioning time of launch pads. You again are ignoring the availability of VABs and obviously fabrication delays caused due to process or design/experiments.

Third launch pad is being made for dedicated experimental missions, is big enough to accommodate heavy and super heavy launchers, manned and reusable rockets. It's about facilities to accommodate rockets and communication.

New Spaceport in Kulsekaripattinam is for SSLV and small launchers, may be for private vendors.
 

Vamsi

New Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
4,858
Likes
29,459
Country flag
You are only accounting reconditioning time of launch pads. You again are ignoring the availability of VABs and obviously fabrication delays caused due to process or design/experiments.

Third launch pad is being made for dedicated experimental missions, is big enough to accommodate heavy and super heavy launchers, manned and reusable rockets. It's about facilities to accommodate rockets and communication.

New Spaceport in Kulsekaripattinam is for SSLV and small launchers, may be for private vendors.
That 26 launches per year capacity was revealed by ISRO itself and I'm sure they would have accounted LP refurbishment time, VAB availability, human resources,fuel production capacity, manufacturing capacity of each LV
 
  • Like
Reactions: SKC

Vamsi

New Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
4,858
Likes
29,459
Country flag
He did.
That's what I'm saying that mission may be pulled here in 2022 itself.
Let me repeat again, Chairman ISRO, made it clear that there will be 2 Inflight Abort Tests in 2022 itself ,while the 1st unmanned orbital flight G1 will only be in Mid-2023....

Now are you sure that you haven't confused b/w Inflight Abort Tests & G1 flight....
 
  • Like
Reactions: SKC

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,277
Likes
56,182
Country flag
That 26 launches per year capacity was revealed by ISRO itself and I'm sure they would have accounted LP refurbishment time, VAB availability, human resources,fuel production capacity, manufacturing capacity of each LV
If you are so sure about it, I'm sure that you too might be having some mathematical calculations for it. Care to explain us since making even 26 PSLV CA is impossible to fabricate since one rockets takes multiple months and even if they are produced somehow by adding more vendors, it's impossible for VAB integration. A single rocket assembly takes weeks. Theoretically speaking, given the budget and load of ISRO, manpower will run out of work in 2 years if this is achieved though.

Two launch pads and two VABs is what we have so we would go 10 to 12 launches an year at our very very best, provided no fabrication delays, fund delays or weather issue. Third launch pad (with a new VAB required) may add some launches though.
Let me repeat again, Chairman ISRO, made it clear that there will be 2 Inflight Abort Tests in 2022 itself ,while the 1st unmanned orbital flight G1 will only be in Mid-2023....

Now are you sure that you haven't confused b/w Inflight Abort Tests & G1 flight....
May be, my bad.
 
Last edited:

Vamsi

New Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
4,858
Likes
29,459
Country flag
If you are so sure about it, I'm sure that you too might be having some mathematical calculations for it. Care to explain us since making even 26 PSLV CA is impossible to fabricate since one rockets takes multiple months and even if they are produced somehow by adding more vendors, it's impossible for VAB integration. A single rocket assembly takes weeks. Theoretically speaking, given the budget and load of ISRO, manpower will run out of work in 2 years if this is achieved though.

Two launch pads and two VABs is what we have so we would go 10 to 12 launches an year at our very very best, provided no fabrication delays, fund delays or weather issue. Third launch pad (with a new VAB required) may add some launches though.
1st LP itself can handle Max 15 PSLV launches a year....they can simultaneously assemble 2 PSLVs at 1st LP, (one at Mobile Service Tower & 2nd one at PIF i.e PSLV Integration Facility).

They can simultaneously assemble either 3 GSLV-MK2s one each at VAB, SSAB, SVAB
or
2GSLV-MK3s i.e one at VAB+ SSAB & and another one at SVAB.

So they can launch total of 3Mk2s + 2Mk3s a year i.e 5 rockets.

Also SVAB is actually meant for TLP
 
  • Like
Reactions: SKC

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,277
Likes
56,182
Country flag
1st LP itself can handle Max 15 PSLV launches a year....they can simultaneously assemble 2 PSLVs at 1st LP, (one at Mobile Service Tower & 2nd one at PIF i.e PSLV Integration Facility).

They can simultaneously assemble either 3 GSLV-MK2s one each at VAB, SSAB, SVAB
or
2GSLV-MK3s i.e one at VAB+ SSAB & and another one at SVAB.

So they can launch total of 3Mk2s + 2Mk3s a year i.e 5 rockets.

Also SVAB is actually meant for TLP
Still you are not accounting that producing a PSLV takes around 5 weeks minimum to even 3 months alone and LVM3 notification comes even 6 months earlier.

The timeline of payload fabrication, manpower for other activities and so forth.
You are only accounting serviceability of a launch pads (and this degree of complete utilisation of launch cannot not be done even by a western agency).
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top