Indian Economy: News and Discussion

[nongaddarliberal]

Anyone who thinks vietnam and bangladesh would overtake india even ten back or ten years in future are absolutely retards. Its waste of time to argue with them. Our Graduates quality and quantity, our Institutions(even with gutter level funds), our companies(even the screwdriver giri ones, some are genuinely doing r&d) calibre what-so-ever gutter level they are(compared to world leaders) would STILL absolutely maul these two much less all the ASEAN.

Vietnam is taking education very seriously. Their primary and secondary education is on average better than ours, so they have better fundamentals, and they're now actively working with the Koreans and Japanese for graduate and PG level STEM education. It's a country that has already achieved 4400 USD per capita income, and they have plenty of room to grow, considering most of their 100 million population hasn't entered the global supply chain labour force.

India's advantage is that our urban middle class alone is larger than the entire populations of Vietnam or Indonesia.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Vietnam is taking education very seriously. Their primary and secondary education is on average better than ours, so they have better fundamentals, and they're now actively working with the Koreans and Japanese for graduate and PG level STEM education. It's a country that has already achieved 4400 USD per capita income, and they have plenty of room to grow, considering most of their 100 million population hasn't entered the global supply chain labour force.

India's advantage is that our urban middle class alone is larger than the entire populations of Vietnam or Indonesia.

Deviations are too big if you don't normalize what it is that you are comparing including education, Vietnam can't match India's capabilities easily but their system is more functional and responsive and so is their society. Currently you are seeing these things working productively and taking advantage of global re alignments. There isn't much of employment there compared to India and a lot is driven based on its location being close to China, Korea and Thailand and so on but it has its limits. Percapita and GDP are misleading, Russia fighting entire NATO which has higher GDP on paper but can't match Russia's strengths....

 

[Krishnarjun]

Wonder where is Suzlon going to raise capital this massive from. In phases most probably, but they are still under significant debt with not so promising recovery since past few years.

 

[Atavistic]

'Maharashtra Bhawan' in Kashmir

Maharashtra becomes 1st Indian state to buy land in Kashmir

Maharashtra plans to build a tourist facility in Jammu and Kashmir's Budgam, becoming the first state to buy land in the union territory.

www.livemint.com

 

[Shuturmurg]

Anyone who thinks vietnam and bangladesh would overtake india even ten back or ten years in future are absolutely retards. Its waste of time to argue with them. Our Graduates quality and quantity, our Institutions(even with gutter level funds), our companies(even the screwdriver giri ones, some are genuinely doing r&d) calibre what-so-ever gutter level they are(compared to world leaders) would STILL absolutely maul these two much less all the ASEAN.

Ah yes, Vietnam not outpacing India :

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/IND/VNM

As far as education is concerned, in PISA they rank 34, all countries above them are developed countries. India ranked 72 in PISA and ran away from participating.

PISA Scores By Country 2024

www.datapandas.org

Why are Vietnam’s schools so good?

It understands the value of education and manages its teachers well

www.economist.com

 

[slayingheaven]

Ah yes, Vietnam not outpacing India :

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/IND/VNM

View attachment 244304

As far as education is concerned, in PISA they rank 34, all countries above them are developed countries. India ranked 72 in PISA and ran away from participating.

PISA Scores By Country 2024

www.datapandas.org

Why are Vietnam’s schools so good?

It understands the value of education and manages its teachers well

www.economist.com

Ah yes, all you can show is scores and shit. If PISA scores are so good, why aren't they coming up with their own weapons-can't come up with even a simple manpad but here we are landing rover on moon. Yes, self masturbation to PISA score, tell me one university of vietnam ahead of India's universities, one recent product innovation they came up with? . When we were in socialist gutter era of 1980s we are shipping supercomputers to russia,germany etc. Now we had our own indigenous supercomputing processor designed by c-dac. Yes, the retardest metric gdp-per-capita, iam not gonna argue further if you bring gdp per capita . do you think our graduates quality&quantity can be matched by vietnam even 10%? Tell me one vietnamese company that is in forefront of any Indian company in any sector? . If you cited South Korea, then I would shut my mouth because they the tiger they are not the ASEAN cats.

 

[sauntheninja]

Ah yes, all you can show is scores and shit. If PISA scores are so good, why aren't they coming up with their own weapons-can't come up with even a simple manpad but here we are landing rover on moon. Yes, self masturbation to PISA score, tell me one university of vietnam ahead of India's universities, one recent product innovation they came up with? . When we were in socialist gutter era of 1980s we are shipping supercomputers to russia,germany etc. Now we had our own indigenous supercomputing processor designed by c-dac. Yes, the retardest metric gdp-per-capita, iam not gonna argue further if you bring gdp per capita . do you think our graduates quality&quantity can be matched by vietnam even 10%? Tell me one vietnamese company that is in forefront of any Indian company in any sector? . If you cited South Korea, then I would shut my mouth because they the tiger they are not the ASEAN cats.

Check the quality of the bottom 50% percentile instead of the top 10% they smoke us

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Ah yes, all you can show is scores and shit. If PISA scores are so good, why aren't they coming up with their own weapons-can't come up with even a simple manpad but here we are landing rover on moon. Yes, self masturbation to PISA score, tell me one university of vietnam ahead of India's universities, one recent product innovation they came up with? . When we were in socialist gutter era of 1980s we are shipping supercomputers to russia,germany etc. Now we had our own indigenous supercomputing processor designed by c-dac. Yes, the retardest metric gdp-per-capita, iam not gonna argue further if you bring gdp per capita . do you think our graduates quality&quantity can be matched by vietnam even 10%? Tell me one vietnamese company that is in forefront of any Indian company in any sector? . If you cited South Korea, then I would shut my mouth because they the tiger they are not the ASEAN cats.

Only first world countries can be ahead of India in original technology at the stage we're at. When we say overtake regarding other developing countries, it means productivity per worker, average income, average access to Healthcare and education, urban infrastructure, manufacturing growth rate, agricultural productivity per hectare, time to set up a business, consumption and savings per person, access to services for an average citizen, and other measures of development.

Vietnam with a population of 100m is neither a tiny country that can breeze through with just 1-2 sectors, nor a behemoth that can make its own industrial and scientific ecosystem in today's age. By most developmental measures they have overtaken us and displayed better economic discipline, largely due to the nature of their governance system and proximity to East Asian economies.

 

[slayingheaven]

Check the quality of the bottom 50% percentile instead of the top 10% they smoke us

Then where is that smoking? Something should be reflected in right? Any University, any Company, any product, any innovation, any military program?. Iam not gonna argue further, if you bring up useless metrics instead of real world examples of where they are ahead in. If you wanna compare bottom 50% then compare Kerala and TamilNadu's bottom 50% where they still come at top. Again bro Iam kindly asking you in what sector are they gonna smoke us? If self-masturbation of bottom 50% is useful then why isn't that reflected in real life.

 

[ezsasa]

Ah yes, Vietnam not outpacing India :

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/IND/VNM

View attachment 244304

As far as education is concerned, in PISA they rank 34, all countries above them are developed countries. India ranked 72 in PISA and ran away from participating.

PISA Scores By Country 2024

www.datapandas.org

Why are Vietnam’s schools so good?

It understands the value of education and manages its teachers well

www.economist.com

last time when GoI signed PISA MOU with OECD in 2019, and a bunch of articles started appearing guilt tripping India, naturally i got curious and started digging.

2009 pisa test was done in two states, TN and himachal, number of students who participated 5000.
if i remember correctly, in one of the states either power or internet connection was gone while the test was happening.

either way student sample of 5000 for India is too low for a country of 120 crore people at that time.
Indonesia allows almost 13000 students to take pisa test for country of 27 crore.
in U.S, 4500 students take PISA test.

maybe some day India will participate, but this test is not a judgment on an entire country as it is made out to be.

yet to figure out, who selects the schools, i suppose it is done by the country's govt themselves. then the system can be gamed too.

 

[Shuturmurg]

last time when GoI signed PISA MOU with OECD in 2019, and a bunch of articles started appearing guilt tripping India, naturally i got curious and started digging.

2009 pisa test was done in two states, TN and himachal, number of students who participated 5000.
if i remember correctly, in one of the states either power or internet connection was gone while the test was happening.

either way student sample of 5000 for India is too low for a country of 120 crore people at that time.
Indonesia allows almost 13000 students to take pisa test for country of 27 crore.
in U.S, 4500 students take PISA test.

maybe some day India will participate, but this test is not a judgment on an entire country as it is made out to be.

yet to figure out, who selects the schools, i suppose it is done by the country's govt themselves. then the system can be gamed too.

Brother, forget PISA, even the percentage of 5th graders who can read and write in India is pathetic. Making excuses doesn't fix that. Also, PISA schools and states were selected by govt. to maximize score.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Here is A good survey done to assess which states generate the most industrial output.

Tamil Nadu has the highest number of factories but lags in industrial output, Gujarat leads the pack

Tamil Nadu leads in number of factories, but Gujarat tops in industrial output, with high capital investment.

www.thehindubusinessline.com

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Brother, forget PISA, even the percentage of 5th graders who can read and write in India is pathetic. Making excuses doesn't fix that. Also, PISA schools and states were selected by govt. to maximize score.

Yes. We have to accept that school education in India is not up to standards. Simply going to school so kids can eat the free meals won’t be enough. Hopefully the NEP which focuses more on skills based education will fix that.
But you also have to admit that states like Gujarat with only moderate educational scores is blazing when it comes to industry and commerce. The link between higher education and money making is not very clear. In fact if you educate yourself too much in India, you may not get a job where your aspirations are met. India is at a stage where vocational skills are what is most needed to being poor people to middle class en masse. Chasing useless degrees would be counterproductive for us at this stage. People must go into highly skilled jobs or become entrepreneurs.

 

[ezsasa]

Brother, forget PISA, even the percentage of 5th graders who can read and write in India is pathetic. Making excuses doesn't fix that. Also, PISA schools and states were selected by govt. to maximize score.

since "pathetic" has been used, source of the data? preferably latest.

 

[Shuturmurg]

since "pathetic" has been used, source of the data? preferably latest.

ASER 2022 finds sharp drop in children’s reading ability

The report details for the first time how the Covid-19 pandemic affected learning among schoolchildren.

www.hindustantimes.com

Also from the economist article i posted earlier :

 

[Shuturmurg]

Yes. We have to accept that school education in India is not up to standards. Simply going to school so kids can eat the free meals won’t be enough. Hopefully the NEP which focuses more on skills based education will fix that.
But you also have to admit that states like Gujarat with only moderate educational scores is blazing when it comes to industry and commerce. The link between higher education and money making is not very clear. In fact if you educate yourself too much in India, you may not get a job where your aspirations are met. India is at a stage where vocational skills are what is most needed to being poor people to middle class en masse. Chasing useless degrees would be counterproductive for us at this stage. People must go into highly skilled jobs or become entrepreneurs.

Gujarat has GDP per capita of 5000 USD. That is pretty low, so it has plenty of room to grow without additional spending on education, as there is plenty of low handing fruit.

For eg:
If 2 crore of Gujarat population has high levels of education and gets to 30k USD per capita GDP.
Rest 4 crore have poor education and can potentially only get to 5k USD per capita.

Then total GDP per capita will be :
((2 cr * 30k) + (4cr * 5k))/6cr = (600 billion USD + 200 billion USD)/6 cr = 800billion/6cr ~ 13k USD (middle income trap with high income inequality)

Now, if those 4 cr. people's income goes to 15k USD instead of 5k USD (due to better education), GDP becomes : 1.4 trillion USD, GDP per capita ~ 23k USD (solidly into high income and much lower income inequality).

 

[ezsasa]

ASER 2022 finds sharp drop in children’s reading ability

The report details for the first time how the Covid-19 pandemic affected learning among schoolchildren.

www.hindustantimes.com

Also from the economist article i posted earlier :

View attachment 244335

this old trope again, it seems to be the case folks who frequently have pessimistic view of India seem to share same information sources, on this forum and maybe even the larger social media and internet. by inference, information sources determine one's outlook on India/world.

my response when someone used this survey last time.

as far as i am concerned, don't care about foreign NGO funded reports.

if the discussion is about what gormint is doing, National Education policy 2020 is what they are doing, they say they want to focus on learning outcomes and skilling. like any govt policy in this country, to see nationwide results, it takes atleast 15-20 years.

if the discussion is about skilled manpower for industry, from a policy perspective manufacturing was not a priority ten years ago. now that manufacturing is in focus, we can hope that industry workforce demand will drive changes in education requirements as well.

as far as china comparisons is concerned, or comparisons with other countries selectively on topics are concerned, i disagree with such comparisons. it usually ends up being a India bashing exercise.

 

[Shuturmurg]

this old trope again, it seems to be the case folks who frequently have pessimistic view of India seem to share same information sources, on this forum and maybe even the larger social media and internet. by inference, information sources determine one's outlook on India/world.

my response when someone used this survey last time.

If 30%-40% of your population is poorly educated , stunted and hence mentally retarded, you can never achieve full potential of your population.

As the saying goes "Facts don't care aout your feeling". All countries that became developed, solved these problems in their developing phase.

 

[AnantS]

I think coding guys will see an impact along with QA/QC and so on with advancements and refinements in this domain. Wonder if programming languages itself can come with built in AI Assists eliminating paying for some of these things

there are already ai code assist plugins available for various IDE.

 

[ezsasa]

If 30%-40% of your population is poorly educated , stunted and hence mentally retarded, you can never achieve full potential of your population.

As the saying goes "Facts don't care aout your feeling". All countries that became developed, solved these problems in their developing phase.

there is a difference between the outlook. there is a difference between those who see preferred data points as another stick to beat the "other" with, and those who recognise that the change in practical terms is going to be slow in a continental sized country.

as far as "Facts don't care aout your feeling" goes, whose facts? at a time when there is greater awareness among Indian public that facts and perceptions on India are selectively curated by special interest groups.

in this case, just a few days ago, we had this trend "what's wrong with India" on SM, what was it essentially? it was symptom of a global phenomenon where one's perspective is determined by where you are accessing your internet and social media from. and on top of it there are basic human traits like confirmation bias.

by extension, even people of Indian origin who live in different countries, are victims of algorithmic and information bias. even people living in India are not immune to algorithmic and information bias.