Indian Economy: News and Discussion

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Chapter VB of the Industrial Disputes Act, 1947 that deals with the provisions related to layoffs, retrenchment, and closure in industrial establishments.

This regulation makes it difficult to scale up or scale down the work force in response to changing market dynamics.

This provision is circumvented for most part by using contract labor. But contract labor do not feel attached to the company and champion its quality and brand. So, there are limitations. It is better to have flexible labor laws itself.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

They don't fall under the purview of labor laws; these laws are applicable to industrial units and not to IT companies.

And this is exactly why IT took off in India. Investors simply did not want to invest in manufacturing but in IT/ITeS. This is why we have so much services but not enough manufacturing. Pretty stupid actually.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Depends on scale. Does JIO have enough demand for the tracker to effectively produce in India? When they do, they will localize.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Saar which stonks to invest, can you please to inform

Just invest in the index.

 

[jai jaganath]

Depends on scale. Does JIO have enough demand for the tracker to effectively produce in India? When they do, they will localize.

There are many Indian vts available
They could have sourced from Indian manufacturers and stick jio on it
No problem

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

There are many Indian vts available
They could have sourced from Indian manufacturers and stick jio on it
No problem

Cost differential? JIO is a private company. They will do things that benefit their shareholders. Indian government can always impose duties on such electronic imports if the CCP heavily subsidizes its production to dump in India.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Innovations do come from Indian manufacturers after multi year R&D. Here is Hero’s Surge S32 - 2W+3W combo.

 

[Crazywithmath]

Ye but they are legit employees in China.

Yes, they have very relaxed hiring regulations in place (one of the most relaxed in the world). But I am mentioning the "temps" only. Following are some musings;

For its latest report, CLW said undercover investigators worked in Foxconn’s Zhengzhou plant in China, including one who was employed there for four years. One of the main findings: Temporary staff, known as dispatch workers, made up about 50% the workforce in August. Chinese labor law stipulates a maximum of 10%, CLW noted.

In late 2017, Apple found Foxconn had employed high school students who worked illegal overtime to assemble the iPhone X. Apple sent specialists to the facility to work with management on systems that ensured appropriate standards were followed.

On December 12, 2018, hundreds of temporary workers at Foxconn’s Zhengzhou plant protested over non-payment of wages by the recruitment agencies that employed them. The workers were promised cash bonuses amounting to 6,000 yuan per person if they worked 55 days and were recruited on temporary contracts by the agencies (South China Morning Post). They took to the streets when recruitment agencies failed to pay their bonuses. In January, the same year, the factory had come under fire when one of the dispatch workers jumped to his death from a building, raising concerns about poor working conditions of dispatch workers in the electronics industry (The Telegraph). Dispatch workers, a form of informal labour, are employed by labour dispatch agencies for a short-term under the promise of regular pay for work and bonus. According to a report by China Labour Watch (2018), dispatch workers in Foxconn’s Zhengzhou plant accounted for more than half of its total workforce in 2018, throwing light on a rampant violation of labour laws. Many are employed on a temporary contract or even lack a formal labour contract. Unpaid wages, poor working conditions, long work hours, lack of employment contract, social insurance, training or rest days etc. are commonplace among informal workers. Instances such as these have only aggravated in the wake of an economic slowdown with employers trying to save labour costs by employing dispatch workers.

This is a factory that manufactures Amazon Echo Speakers;

About 40 percent of the factory’s employees are dispatch workers, paid about $2.30 an hour during regular work hours if they meet monthly attendance targets. They can make more than regular workers, up to $473 a month, in part because they don’t have pay into health insurance, pensions, and other social insurance programs.

Factories where Hasbro, Disney and Mattel toys are made employing thousands of dispatch workers;

In peak production season, employees were working up to 175 overtime hours per month. Chinese labour law restricts monthly overtime to 36 hours per month, but the report alleged factories would often ask local governments to implement a "comprehensive working hour scheme" to override existing legislation.

They too have a very informal labor force;

Informality has become the defining feature of urban employment in China since the implementation of economic reforms. The International Labor Organization (ILO) estimate for informal employment in China today is around 54.4%, of which informal employment in urban areas accounts for 36.2%. A definition of informal economy is absent in the Chinese context despite the fact that more than half of the urban employment in China is informal (ILO). This is significant as it implies a lack of recognition of informality by the government and thereby, a lack of formal mechanism to determine the nature and scale of informality in China. Explaining the rationale behind such an approach, some scholars argue that the government recognition of informality would testify to its “failure in assisting the vulnerable and the limits of government control” (Song, Appleton and Liang). Given the absence of a standard and official definition of informal economy or informal employment, the rights of informal workers still remain a neglected terrain in the government idiom.

The ccp gormint puts a 10% cap on "temps" but almost nobody abides by it. Their labor codes are quite stringent too but again, rarely enforced.

 

[jai jaganath]

Cost differential? JIO is a private company. They will do things that benefit their shareholders. Indian government can always impose duties on such electronic imports if the CCP heavily subsidizes its production to dump in India.

Not sure how much cost differential exists as are making vts for more than a decade now
I will post something I read about it few years ago
But cost difference certainly not that huge for jio to opt Chinese ones
It's their intent and lack of trust on Indian vts maybe which I think is bogus

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Not sure how much cost differential exists as are making vts for more than a decade now
I will post something I read about it few years ago
But cost difference certainly not that huge for jio to opt Chinese ones
It's their intent and lack of trust on Indian vts maybe which I think is bogus

Publicly listed companies don’t take decisions based on trust alone. They get the products, test them out and then introduce in markets, as failed products can be hugely expensive. This is basic electronics. So JIO would Source from India if they could as transportation costs would be lower and they would have more control over supply chains.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Yes, they have very relaxed hiring regulations in place (one of the most relaxed in the world). But I am mentioning the "temps" only. Following are some musings;





This is a factory that manufactures Amazon Echo Speakers;



Factories where Hasbro, Disney and Mattel toys are made employing thousands of dispatch workers;



They too have a very informal labor force;



The ccp gormint puts a 10% cap on "temps" but almost nobody abides by it. Their labor codes are quite stringent too but again, rarely enforced.

China started as a sweatshop and was one for decades. They were the largest processor of world’s toxic waste. They have done some real environmental damage, killed thousands due to polluted waters and cancer villages, made people work horrible number of hours for low pay, used slave labor from occupied Tibet etc to get where they are. India is never going to do it this way. And we should definitely not do it this way. It is better to tell the world that our manufacturing costs would be higher due to ethical practices and basic human rights protection - and it is on you if you purchase from unethical countries like China. Blood diamonds from Africa were cut down this way.

 

[jai jaganath]

Publicly listed companies don’t take decisions based on trust alone. They get the products, test them out and then introduce in markets, as failed products can be hugely expensive. This is basic electronics. So JIO would Source from India if they could as transportation costs would be lower and they would have more control over supply chains.

But they haven't maybe in future they might Collab with Indian industry and get their vts but right now it seems they just want to take their share of market with Chinese ones

 

[shade]

There are many Indian vts available
They could have sourced from Indian manufacturers and stick jio on it
No problem

This is one meme assumption people make.
I mean it's for narrative peddling but still.

Everyone, whether it's some fuck huge baniya conglomerate, the mango man or the IAS Babu lusting for L1 tender, all go for the cheap stuff if it satisfies their "quality" metrics.

One mongrel prince once said that "We can't even made a needle in India, even that is imported from China"
It is not that "we can't", but it is that ours is more expensive than imported Chinese maal, even if it's domestically produced and the quality difference is negligible.

The Chinky VT was probably cheaper, of acceptable quality and was delivered quickly in the amount ordered than an Indian manufacturer would be able to do.

It is a sad state of events but true, and Govt is trying to ameliorate this but it's not full spectrum, like only mobile phones for now.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

This is one meme assumption people make.
I mean it's for narrative peddling but still.

Everyone, whether it's some fuck huge baniya conglomerate, the mango man or the IAS Babu lusting for L1 tender, all go for the cheap stuff if it satisfies their "quality" metrics.

One mongrel prince once said that "We can't even made a needle in India, even that is imported from China"
It is not that "we can't", but it is that ours is more expensive than imported Chinese maal, even if it's domestically produced and the quality difference is negligible.

The Chinky VT was probably cheaper, of acceptable quality and was delivered quickly in the amount ordered than an Indian manufacturer would be able to do.

It is a sad state of events but true, and Govt is trying to ameliorate this but it's not full spectrum, like only mobile phones for now.

The point is we can never match Chinese costs as there is a lot of human rights violations and unethical/illegal business practices behind such unit costs. Better to compete on quality/brand and China+1 strategy. We should never set expectations that our costs will be ever as low as China’s.

 

[shade]

The point is we can never match Chinese costs as there is a lot of human rights violations and unethical/illegal business practices behind such unit costs. Better to compete on quality/brand and China+1 strategy. We should never set expectations that our costs will be ever as low as China’s.

This is not competing.
This is

For a range of products people go for what is cheapest and of acceptable quality.
Take the mobile phone market, in this very country people mostly buy (((value for money))) chinkphones, then kpop-phones and finally the iPhones by volume.

Perhaps you can argue the iPhones are the best quality etc, but the vast majority of people don't buy those.

For better or for worse, the homosexual relationship of the soulless, profit-maxing Keynes,Adam Smith and Ayn Randi devotees of the West and the 2000 year vision CCP assholes have resulted in this randikhana of bottom barrel ultra cheap products, it has become the total standard in today's world.

If we have to compete even within our own country, we have to out-cheap the chinky, atleast the govt can help us by duty-maxxing and putting all kinds of non-trade barriers, I mean they are pr0s now at making the avg citizen's life, setting up businesses etc very hard, i'm sure they have some soycialist babus who can be put to such a task

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

This is not competing.
This is

For a range of products people go for what is cheapest and of acceptable quality.
Take the mobile phone market, in this very country people mostly buy (((value for money))) chinkphones, then kpop-phones and finally the iPhones by volume.

Perhaps you can argue the iPhones are the best quality etc, but the vast majority of people don't buy those.

For better or for worse, the homosexual relationship of the soulless, profit-maxing Keynes,Adam Smith and Ayn Randi devotees of the West and the 2000 year vision CCP assholes have resulted in this randikhana of bottom barrel ultra cheap products, it has become the total standard in today's world.

If we have to compete even within our own country, we have to out-cheap the chinky, atleast the govt can help us by duty-maxxing and putting all kinds of non-trade barriers, I mean they are pr0s now at making the avg citizen's life, setting up businesses etc very hard, i'm sure they have some soycialist babus who can be put to such a task

Someone said competing on costs is a race to the bottom. I think India needs to ban imports or levy duties of all Chinese products that are produced below a certain cost threshold. EU is going to impose duties on mass subsidized EV car dumping. I am not talking about very high quality. But Chinese shove in products of extremely low quality and even toxic ones. Of course these will be cheap. But we should cut those off.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

Someone said competing on costs is a race to the bottom. I think India needs to ban imports or levy duties of all Chinese products that are produced below a certain cost threshold. EU is going to impose duties on mass subsidized EV car dumping. I am not talking about very high quality. But Chinese shove in products of extremely low quality and even toxic ones. Of course these will be cheap. But we should cut those off.

That wont work and will give our parasitic traders class an even bigger venue to scam the public with overinflated prices. The opposite should be done. The government should give heavily discounted electricity and land vouchers to companies to set up large scale factories + industrail parks in all these targeted components until Indian companies can compete on price. India needs state owned/backed large companies in all these sectors where existing PSU laws don't apply, if private companies do not invest.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

Uttar Pradesh: Thousands Of Youth Apply For Jobs In Israel Despite Ongoing Conflict

People have lined up in the recruitment centre in Lucknow – some ready to go for their children while others are ready to risk their lives because they are "berozgar".

www.freepressjournal.in

I wonder if this will end up like pakis in turkey. These Haryana/UP men behave exactly like Pakis when it comes to women.

 

[Jimih]

I wonder if this will end up like pakis in turkey.

Well Mallus didn't ended up like Pakis in Gulf (pronounced Gelf)

These Haryana/UP men behave exactly like Pakis when it comes to women

Well Haryana and UP ranks lower than atleast 3 southern states when it comes to Domestic Violence.

This is not a north-south debate but atleast don't be biased and regionalist (chhetrawaadi) in your statements.

 

[SKC]

Uttar Pradesh: Thousands Of Youth Apply For Jobs In Israel Despite Ongoing Conflict

People have lined up in the recruitment centre in Lucknow – some ready to go for their children while others are ready to risk their lives because they are "berozgar".

www.freepressjournal.in

I wonder if this will end up like pakis in turkey. These Haryana/UP men behave exactly like Pakis when it comes to women.

I am sorry that men in your family are that bad!
But please have counselling for them in that case and not bother us with your sad story.