Indian Economy: News and Discussion

tribendra bisoi.

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you are generalizing sir... there no holy cows in this world per se but only straight one's get targeted while babu's & Neta's themselves are busy converting their earning into solid gold.
Might be the reason we are importing so much gold 😅 .. We need to search gold mines . Otherwise we ll waste all our dollar reserve .
 

Roshan

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This guy appears to be doing well. His Income has multiplied since the last video of his I saw a few years back which I also found very interesting and educational. Many of our 'annadatas' need to take a leaf out of his book coz his landholding isn't that large either.
 

sauntheninja

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I don't agree with you.



Historically, China was the leading economy until more than 200 years ago.

What did the great Mr. Deng do right more than 40 years ago?

open to the outside world and market economy.
India and china were the leading economies before the industrial revolution because we had huge swathes of fertile lands and a huge population
 

SKC

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We have a little bit of everything here but we lack cutting edge technology.
Other problems is we don't make maximum component's by ourselves.
Example TBMs they are all brought in from Germany or Sweden each cost a about 15 to 50 million.
We already are making small TBMs tho.



This beast for example is license manufactured here.
All in all these things slip away from the bare eyes and we feel like we are manufacturing everything.

Bullet proof glass is imported from France, no Indian glass company has the capability to make one or even have R&D to do so.
So we are manufacturing the glass but not the special glass that makes bulk money.

How many ICE engine has Mahindra, tata, Asol leyland produced all together? Most tata engines are from Cummins and Volkswagen.
Maruti engine come from fiat.
Hell even cars front lights are imported.

So when You look at it only about 60% of the goods is locally manufactured and rest are imported or licensed. The licensed and imported goods usually have higher value share of the final goods.
100% localization is impossible in current world. Even chinese car companies import a lot of items from Japan, Germany and EU.

For the engines, there are only 2 independent architecture for diesel engine in the world and all diesel engines are based on either of these two types.
Maruti does not take engines from Fiat. They used to buy diesel from them but now all engines are their own.
Tata and M&M both got their Diesel engines designed by the same European country in late 1990s but they themselves improved them on their own. New M&M engines are marvel of technology.
 

SKC

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I know about that , but it's very Smol.. need multiple big Fabs worth of 10B each.
Also befor that we gotta snatch HDD market from S.E.A. , it's a sequential process. Can't jump directly to Semiconductor level Precision machines, first start with HDD manufacturing.
Bhai ek to ban jane de pehle. This is the Indian mentality ya to sare kaam ek sath ho jaye ya fir kaam shuru hi nahi karenge.
 

SKC

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This thread is going to its cycle of Depression.

Our Auto industries are well interconnected to Global supply chain. We are exporting auto components, importing auto components easily because of this supply chain. Eg. TVS Provides camshaft to BMW litre class bike.

Our auto industries is well developed within the max capability we have. We will not expertise and build ICE engines, since they are in their last leg with big uncertainty. Also we should understand our market.

Indian market put emphasis on fuel efficiency something both US and EU countries rarely worried about. Hence when we opened the market Japs and Koreans got great reception since their engines are pretty fuel efficient (Some obvious downgrade in build quality)
Lets have a look at our own Auto industry in 2022:

1. Maruti Suzuki - They used K family engines (Petrol). Suzuki Diesel engines are basically MJD series from Fiat. But now MSIL discontinued it due to BS6.

2. Hyundai - Using both Petrol and Diesel engines which is shared with KIA.

3. Mahindra - Mahindra for a long time have big diesel in the form M Falcon and now they have M stallion series of engines. Since entire Mahindra business model revolves around SUV they cannot outsource their engines hence they made investments and develop this family since their sales will be from Big SUV like Thar, Scorpio, XUV700 and followed by XUV300 , Marazzo.
View attachment 161572
Bolero, Scorpio, Marazzo, Thar, XUV300, XUV700. Basically compact SUV to True SUV with a single MPV.

4. Tata - Tata sells not only SUV but also Hatchback, Sedan, Compact SUV etc.
View attachment 161573
Tiago and Tigor are compact cars. Altroz and Punch are bigger than Tiago and Tigor and Nexon is an Compact SUV and finally we have Harrier and Safari.

Now lets check what engines are they using.
1. Tiago , Tigor, Altroz and Punch - Uses 1.2 L NA Revotron engine (Inhouse engine)
Altroz - Uses a 1.5 L Revotorq Diesel Engines.
2. Nexon - 1.2 L Turbocharged engine (Revotron) and 1.5 L Revotorq diesel Engine.
3. Harrier and Safari - 2.0 L Fiat sourced engine.

Now if you see the majority of Tata sales is from Tiago, Tigor, Nexon, Punch, Altroz and Nexon. Since Harrier twins are competing in a top most segment Tata decided to not invest on their powertrains. But this came with the downside with no Petrol engines since random milord decided to ban diesel cars in NCR. Hence Tata is working on one 1.5 L Petrol engine for Harrier Twins. This engine will do the duty in CURVV. Hence for our market they have own engine options.

VAG - Basically relies on 1.0 TSI and 1.5 TSI.

Toyota - Have big Diesel engines but they will use the Suzuki engines for India.

Surprisingly Fiat have a big customer list in India for their engines
2.0 L MJD
1. Harrier
2. Safari
3. MG Hector
4. MG Hector Plus
5. Jeep Compass
6. Jeep Meridian.

This segment never put sales on fire. Hence all companies took this conservative approach.


Lets look at Truck business (Major players)
1. TATA - Uses a combination of Cummins and In house engines.
2. ASHOK LEYLAND - Have their in house engines.
3. Mahindra - Uses their in house engines.


Lets see our 2W markets.
Our market primarily run on 100CC to 150CC scooters. Since our market is slowly moving upwards our manufactures now already developed necessary capabilities (< 300 CC). Our 2W brands have great reputation something we failed to leverage. Once all of them consider our 2W companies will fold due to arrival of Chinese Bikes but still we have massive dominance in this field even today.

1. Hero - Big Exporter. Actively working on their 300 CC mill. Have partnership with HD regarding Sales.
2. Bajaj - Nearly owning KTM. Having Technical partnerships . Currently working with Triumph. Capable to manufacture upto 400 CC
3. TVS - Great exploits in Racing. This gives them lot of real R&D. Have technical partnership with BMW. Have an 313 CC engine with BMW. They own Norton.
4. Royal Enfield - They are just getting praised all over the world. Have both 350CC and 650 CC mill with another 450 CC Liquid cooled engine
5. JAWA, Yezdi - Not a chart busters but still uses modern single cylinder liquid cooled engine from Mahindra.

We are still few decades away to move middle weight class like 500 - 700 CC.


So we are big in this field for some time. Maybe streamlining taxes in Cars will be helpful in additional sales and also forcing auto components manufacturer to produce parts in India if their usage is becoming common. Something like Infotainment systems, Sunroof and Airbags should be made here since they are becoming very common now.

Our luxury market is not big now. Don't know the reason. Either taxes is killing them or Germans jacked up the price too much.


So crying about semiconductor fab is useless is nothing but waste of time, we are actively calling all form of electronics manufacturers. Once the PLI starts the investment and production starts then GOI will fine tune and attract more players.

Stop RR = just chill and enjoy the day.
Bajaj is earning more from export than from sales of bikes in India since last 3-4 years now.
 

SKC

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Woah Mahindra have their own engines. Didn't knew. M Hawk engine which is in Scorpio is in house or imported?
The engine was initially designed by an European firm. Same firm designed the Tata equivalent engine too. But that happened 2 decades back.
Both Tata and M&M developed on their engine themselves. M&M's current diesels are one of the best in the field.
 

Kumata

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blame the news media for ensuring own citizens do not know about our own strengths, by focusing only on negatives.
Common nibba...

Mahindra makes good diesels.. no doubt on that but calling them best is far fetched.. they have just refined / fine tuned it better .. it's a still a collboration aka borrowed one at the end of day... AVL Austria .
 

Kumata

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at some point in the future, there needs to be a study on how much damage the "dark decade" (2004-2014) did to Indian economy.
But MMS said , history will judge him kindly ... Perhaps stable owner do not know his own horses... :D
 

Kumata

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Thanks for the youtube video.... we here practice old farming ways ( Alternate between Wheat & corn aka makka as it's called here, with occasional colocasia & veggies) and as i near retirement, i am thinking of transforming the fields... it's going to be a tough shift from cushy corporate chair to sweat belting one..


let us see what future holds for me...
 

ezsasa

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Common nibba...

Mahindra makes good diesels.. no doubt on that but calling them best is far fetched.. they have just refined / fine tuned it better .. it's a still a collboration aka borrowed one at the end of day... AVL Austria .
it's a bit nuanced obviously, there are certain categories of engines that EU(and probably US) have stopped manufacturing by making certain forging methods illegal. 20-30 years ago those manufacturing units shifted to India among other countries. the companies who benefitted from this are Kalyani, Mahindra and force motors.
 

Varzone

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you are generalizing sir... there no holy cows in this world per se but only straight one's get targeted while babu's & Neta's themselves are busy converting their earning into solid gold.
Everyone should be targeted for anti-corruption but there is no one law or action that can do that.
Many powerful people are also landlords who will get into the tax system and ITD can pursue their sources of wealth if required.
 

NutCracker

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blame the news media for ensuring own citizens do not know about our own strengths, by focusing only on negatives.
It's not like Mahindra tried to tell us in any ads that they are making in-house engine.
 

Kumata

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it's a bit nuanced obviously, there are certain categories of engines that EU(and probably US) have stopped manufacturing by making certain forging methods illegal. 20-30 years ago those manufacturing units shifted to India among other countries. the companies who benefitted from this are Kalyani, Mahindra and force motors.
Correct, Think this was the time when the woke , librandu aka climate activists started getting the traction across Europe / US .

Modern diesels all use CRDI / TDI with variations here & there ... believe tata's are still stuck with old tech for trucks though since CRDI et all pushed the costs way too high... If i know correctly TATA PRIMA Are CRDI Engines while your LP series is Old school tech at work...
 

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