Indian Counter Terror Operations Pictures & Discussions

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Chinmoy

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yeah, I understand what you are saying but basics such as handling a gun ,posture etc could have been taught by anyone before presenting them to Israelis ,it's just embarrassing . But leave it ,we are better now I am just curious does NSG conduct real time operations or it's just training ?
:):):):)

Yeah, but even you have to see what weapons are carried in that way. The veteran 303s. Now we have to look about what Israelis are talking too. No one could carry a AK the way they are mentioning.
So not just techniques, but weapons too play a vital role in the way you train. Just compare the weapons carried by Mumbai police pre and post 26/11 with weapons carried by Israeli police.
 

Chinmoy

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It was the MH's govt that directly approached Israel for heir trainers. Why hey didn't go to the NSG is beyond me.

The NSG has had an active hand in raising most of the special response police units that have been created in India post-26/11. I guess running to the Israelis was a knee jerk reaction from the state govt. since then Force one has been entirely self sufficient and has been training with NSG. Israeli trainers have not returned.
@rkhanna and you are over hyphenating an issue. When we talk about NSG they are into counter terrorism for sure, but their mode of training has been totally different then what has been unleashed in Mumbai at that time. They were tried in a role reversal during Pathankot and it is upto people to discuss how effective they were there, but its another story for another time.

Mumbai was an effective warzone at that time and NSG had done a commendable job in containing and eliminating the tangos in Taj and Nariman house. Even MARCOS were deployed at that time and their role too is something which has been discussed a lot later on and training diversification has been applied in their regime too.

Now we could go on and criticize the MH govt as much as we like and may be to an extent it might hold its ground. But the truth is that the training imparted by Israelis to the Maharastra Police was something which even NSG lacked at that time. Maybe our forces who were engaged in COIN ops could have been of any help, but then again it all comes down to bureaucracy and we all know how it works in our country. The step was taken in emergency. Now what Force one is doing now a days again is another thing.
 

rkhanna

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@rkhanna and you are over hyphenating an issue. When we talk about NSG they are into counter terrorism for sure, but their mode of training has been totally different then what has been unleashed in Mumbai at that time. They were tried in a role reversal during Pathankot and it is upto people to discuss how effective they were there, but its another story for another time.

Mumbai was an effective warzone at that time and NSG had done a commendable job in containing and eliminating the tangos in Taj and Nariman house. Even MARCOS were deployed at that time and their role too is something which has been discussed a lot later on and training diversification has been applied in their regime too.

Now we could go on and criticize the MH govt as much as we like and may be to an extent it might hold its ground. But the truth is that the training imparted by Israelis to the Maharastra Police was something which even NSG lacked at that time. Maybe our forces who were engaged in COIN ops could have been of any help, but then again it all comes down to bureaucracy and we all know how it works in our country. The step was taken in emergency. Now what Force one is doing now a days again is another thing.

Sorry but i disagree with you.

The NSG even during 26/11 was a POTENT CT unit with one of the highest number of high risk CT/HRT operations across the world. To say they didnt have the basic skills to train a SWAT unit is a slap on the face of NSG - NSG had other structural problems - which is a topic for another time and place.

However, Lets say you are right. They didnt have the capacity to train Mumbai SWAT. what happened to our Para SF?

Remember right after 26/11 Para SF COs said no need to deploy NSG in metro's we are better suited etc etc? Why couldnt THREE SF instructors be deputed for 5 weeks to Mumbai?

Lastly - to raise a SWAT unit - you dont get 3 guys from overseas to train 30 odd personel in 5 weeks. What you do is first TRAIN the instructors who are going to raise this 30 odd man unit. You help put systems and SOPs in place, you put a selection program in place, etc
 

Chinmoy

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Sorry but i disagree with you.

The NSG even during 26/11 was a POTENT CT unit with one of the highest number of high risk CT/HRT operations across the world. To say they didnt have the basic skills to train a SWAT unit is a slap on the face of NSG - NSG had other structural problems - which is a topic for another time and place.

However, Lets say you are right. They didnt have the capacity to train Mumbai SWAT. what happened to our Para SF?

Remember right after 26/11 Para SF COs said no need to deploy NSG in metro's we are better suited etc etc? Why couldnt THREE SF instructors be deputed for 5 weeks to Mumbai?

Lastly - to raise a SWAT unit - you dont get 3 guys from overseas to train 30 odd personel in 5 weeks. What you do is first TRAIN the instructors who are going to raise this 30 odd man unit. You help put systems and SOPs in place, you put a selection program in place, etc
You have missed on what I am saying........... First, NSG is a capable unit, but its speciality had been hostage rescue ops and CQB rather then Urban warfare.

Second, even our SF has not carried out any ops in urban scenario.

Finally, I already mentioned about bureaucracy hurdle. NSG is under central HM whereas Police force comes under state HM. SF is totally under another ministry. 26/11 has done the good that many of the bureaucratic hurdle which existed before that for interoperability has been relaxed.

For a state, it was much easier to take a independent decision like sending its police to foreign for training rather then make a committee and discuss it under parliamentary affairs about how to go through state force training with any central force and who would bear the cost etc etc.
 

rkhanna

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You have missed on what I am saying........... First, NSG is a capable unit, but its speciality had been hostage rescue ops and CQB rather then Urban warfare.

Second, even our SF has not carried out any ops in urban scenario.

Finally, I already mentioned about bureaucracy hurdle. NSG is under central HM whereas Police force comes under state HM. SF is totally under another ministry. 26/11 has done the good that many of the bureaucratic hurdle which existed before that for interoperability has been relaxed.

For a state, it was much easier to take a independent decision like sending its police to foreign for training rather then make a committee and discuss it under parliamentary affairs about how to go through state force training with any central force and who would bear the cost etc etc.
I understand the hypotheticals you are talking about IF Force one was being raised from scratch to operational duties by an Outside entity.

From the documentary (and i could be wrong) the Israelis only spent 5 weeks in Mumbai. - How much could they achieve in 5 weeks? Was that money justified ?

IMO 5 weeks of basic CQB build up and weapons handling could have been done by NSG/SF

PS For a Foriegn Govt to send personnel (even to a state) you need MOD/GOI approval.
PPS NSG is a CT/HRT unit - They have been training in Urban Warfare for 20+ years. They are also trained in COIN. I have two family members who have been deputed to the SAGs. They have been deployed in Kashmir, NE and in the hunt for Veerapan.
 

Chinmoy

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I understand the hypotheticals you are talking about IF Force one was being raised from scratch to operational duties by an Outside entity.

From the documentary (and i could be wrong) the Israelis only spent 5 weeks in Mumbai. - How much could they achieve in 5 weeks? Was that money justified ?

IMO 5 weeks of basic CQB build up and weapons handling could have been done by NSG/SF

PS For a Foriegn Govt to send personnel (even to a state) you need MOD/GOI approval.
PPS NSG is a CT/HRT unit - They have been training in Urban Warfare for 20+ years. They are also trained in COIN. I have two family members who have been deputed to the SAGs. They have been deployed in Kashmir, NE and in the hunt for Veerapan.
Even our NSG gets trained by Israeli, not police though. And most of the training imparted to police forces in India currently by NSG is of equal duration.

Second, the video was of Urban combat rather then CQB and this is what the Israelis are here for. Most of the things done are theoretical rather then practical.

It does need central approval for any foreign agency to come to India, but it is rather easy job to do this then to act on a policy of interactive training session of different home based forces.

Now one of the force doctrine of NSG has been to train state police force in counter terrorism act. But we have to again see the areas of their deployment and mission undertaken by them. They are more specialized in hostage crisis situation and undertaken many such specific operation rather then engaging in a Urban combat scenario. Operations like Mouse Trap and Sarp Vinash are few examples where they were used on a rather war footing, but there too the scenario is completely different from what had occurred in Mumbai.

Now on downside, if we consider the doctrine under which NSG is created, its job was to train state police force in counter insurgency role. Now going by what happened during 26/11 it seems either it was not imparting the training well, which is most unlikely, or it has not been used to train, which is most likely. So in the most likely case, again its the bureaucratic hurdle which was at work.
 

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Jammu and Kashmir: President’s rule to be imposed in the state, senior PDP leaders continue to abandon Mufti
Governor Satyapal Malik had dissolved the Jammu and Kashmir assembly on November 21, citing 'Horse trading and lack of stability' as reasons.


Engagements23

The union government is set to impose the President’s Rule in Jammu and Kashmir from Thursday as the Governor’s rule of six months is set to expire on Wednesday.

The governor of the Jammu and Kashmir, Satya Pal Malik had sent a report to the central government recommending imposition of President’s rule in the state, officials said on Monday. Taking the report into cognizance the union cabinet has cleared the proposal to impose President’s rule in Jammu and Kashmir from December 19.

President Ram Nath Kovind will now have to issue a proclamation declaring that the powers of the legislature of the state shall be exercisable by or under the authority of the Parliament.


Jammu and Kashmir had been placed under the Governor’s rule after the Mehbooba Mufti-led PDP-BJP coalition government was reduced to a minority after its coalition partner BJP withdrew their support from the government. As per the state’s laws, the state came under the rule of the then governor NN Vohra. Satyapal Malik had taken charge as the governor of the state after NN Vohra completed two terms as governor of the state since 2008.

Satyapalik Malik had dissolved the 87-member state assembly on November 21 after the PDP, supported by the Congress and the National Conference, had staked their claim to form the government. Simultaneously, Sajjad Lone of the People’s Conference had also staked a claim with BJP’s support. The Governor had cited ‘horse trading and a lack of stability’ as reasons to dissolve the assembly.

Jammu and Kashmir is the only state in the country to have its own separate constitution. In case of failure of constitutional machinery in any other state of India, President’s Rule is imposed under Article 356 of the Constitution. But in the case of J&K, as per Section 92 of state Constitution, Governor’s rule has to be imposed for a period of six months first.

During the Governor’s rule, State Assembly is either suspended or dissolved. If the Constitutional machinery is not restored before the expiry of this six month period, the provision of Article 356 of the Constitution of India are extended to J&K and the President’s rule is imposed in the State.

Meanwhile, Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) has received a big jolt after two of party’s senior-most leaders, including a former minister, is set to quit the party taking the number of people leaving the party to eight since the PDP-BJP government fell in June this year.

Syed Basharat Bukhari, who had served as law and revenue ministers during the PDP-BJP regime, and Peer Muhammad Hussain, vice chairman of the J&K Waqf, are set to join the National Conference (NC) on Wednesday.

Recently, Haseeb Drabu, a PDP leader who served as State finance minister, also had resigned from the PDP over disputes with Mehbooba Mufti over dropping him from the cabinet.

Many senior PDP members, including former minister Imran Reza Ansari, former MLAs Abid Ansari and Abbas Wani have defected from PDP to join rivals NC and Sajjad Lone’s People’s Conference recently.
 

AMCA

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NIA raids houses of 7 ISIS-linked men for targeting Hindu leaders
The raids were conducted at Otteri in Chennai, Tindivanam near Villupuram, Kuniyamuthur, Ukkadam, and Variety Hall Road in Coimbatore district between 6.45 am to 8.30 am.
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The National Investigation Agency (NIA) on Wednesday carried out an early morning raid on the houses of seven persons in various parts of Tamil Nadu for their alleged links with the terrorist group ISIS. (HT PHOTO)
Updated: Dec 19, 2018 18:13 IST

By M Manikandan, Hindustan Times, Chennai

The National Investigation Agency (NIA) on Wednesday carried out an early morning raid on the houses of seven persons in various parts of Tamil Nadu for their alleged links with the terrorist group ISIS.

The raids were conducted at Otteri in Chennai, Tindivanam near Villupuram, Kuniyamuthur, Ukkadam, and Variety Hall Road in Coimbatore district between 6.45 am to 8.30 am.

Last September, the NIA had arrested the seven accused: Ismail, Ashiq, Salaudin, Samsudeen, Jaffer Siddique, Anwar and Faizal on charges of conspiring to murder Hindu outfit leaders like Arjun Sampath (of Hindu Makkal Katchi) and Anbu Mari (of Shakti Sena).

During enquiry, the Special Investigation Division (SID) of the Tamil Nadu CB-CID found out that they had connections with the ISIS movement.

Following this, the Union home ministry has ordered the NIA to probe the case. From inputs collected from the accused, the NIA suspects that the seven could have conspired to target more Hindu outfit leaders in the state. Hence, they conducted the searches, said an official familiar with the development.

According to sources, the NIA sleuths have seized CDs, bank transaction documents and books spreading fundamentalist ideology.

NIA is also probing the murder of C Sasikumar, a Coimbatore-based spokesperson of Hindu Munnani, an organisation that has been lobbying for the rights of Hindus and fighting against alleged forced conversions.
 
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