Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

[Bleh]

This is the final design.
View attachment 60280

This were previous two designs.
View attachment 60282View attachment 60283

This is the proposed AHT design for the Urban Tank.
View attachment 60284

Minor external tweaks. Layout is more or less the same.

after so many years ,you even can't make clear the AK-1/MBT-2000's chasis front protection...it's not a Soviet/Russian classic layout...lol... probably you should have a look at Leopard2...

View attachment 60277

Nah, it's just Type-59/85 development.

But nonetheless Pak opted for solid armour block would make frontal LOS armour near 800mm. Internet chatter was right again!

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Indeed.


True although, that 660 mm denotes the LOS thickness and not the effective thickness in terms of RHA equivalent. It could be lower than the LOS thickness but even then, I do agree with what you said.

I think, in light of how things stand right now, the Indian Army would be wise to focus a lot more on maneuvering warfare instead of its traditional set-piece way of warfighting.

Oh, and they should train the gunners to aim specifically for the LFP, whenever the situation permits. I know it's a tall order and can not be hoped to achieve in every engagement, nevertheless, if we do indeed manage to do this, it'll pay us rich dividents since a perforating hit in that portion will likely result in the Pakistani tanks getting ammo-racked, given their ammo stowage layout.

Hope Indian APFSDS rounds can atleast ensure a mission kill... on Pakistani tanks

 

[ArgonPrime]

Hope Indian APFSDS rounds can atleast ensure a mission kill... on Pakistani tanks

Aim for the tracks.

 

[Bleh]

Actually @shiphone may be right for Al Khalid... Leopard2 inspired hull-armour is a possibility given how its design tends to concentrate the same amount of armour as T/Type-XX, at the high hit-probability areas.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Whats the penetration of Pak Army APFSDS for Al khalid, T-80 tanks. They also have old Al zaraar and obsolete Type 59 tanks.. which number more than 1000..

 

[ArgonPrime]

Actually @shiphone may be right for Al-Khalid... Leopard2 inspired armour is a possibility given how its design tends to concentrate the same amount of armour as T/Type-XX.
View attachment 60285

Could be. Lucky that we've got the CBUs, ehh??

 

[Bleh]

Whats the penetration of Pak Army APFSDS for Al khalid, T-80 tanks. They also have old Al zaraar and obsolete Type 59 tanks.. which number more than 1000..

See posts on previous page. Explained well.

Could be. Lucky that we've got the CBUs, ehh??

Sorry... CBU??

 

[ArgonPrime]

Sorry... CBU??

CBU-100 Cluster Bomb - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Actually, we bought the CBU-105 varriant to be precise.

 

[Haldilal]

Whats the penetration of Pak Army APFSDS for Al khalid, T-80 tanks. They also have old Al zaraar and obsolete Type 59 tanks.. which number more than 1000..

Type	Image	In service	Origin	Generation	Notes
Main Battle Tanks
VT-4			China		125mm gun. Initial batch of 176 is ordered, total 300 planned. Equipped with 1300HP engine and FY-4 ERA.
Al Khalid		300	China		125mm gun. Al Khalid I variant currently in production.
Al Zarar		500			125mm gun
T-80UD		320	Ukraine		125mm gun
Type 85		300	China		125mm gun. Type 85-IIAP variant in service.
Type 69		150	China		125mm gun. Type 69-IIMP variant in service.

 

[shiphone]

Nah, it's just Type-59/85 development.

But nonetheless Pak opted for solid armour block would make frontal LOS armour near 800mm. Internet chatter was right again!

no...

the development roadmap is clear.

1st Gen Tank: Type-59/69/79 and the export varients, the Type-63 light tank, type-62 amphibious tank --30 tons class

2nd Gen: Type-80,85,88.96+ loads of earlier experiment projects. ..export : eg. Type-85IIM Type-85III, PA's Type-85AP --40 tons class

3rd Gen: Type-99, Export: Type-90->90II-->MBT-2000（where the AK-1 stands）--50 tons class
improved 3rd Gen: Type-99A ， export： MBT-3000/VT-4

 

[Bleh]

CBU-100 Cluster Bomb - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Actually, we bought the CBU-105 varriant to be precise.

no...

the development roadmap is clear.

1st Gen Tank: Type-59/69/79 and the export varients, the Type-63 light tank, type-62 amphibious tank
2nd Gen: Type-80,85,88.96+ loads of experiment projects. ..export project: eg. PA's Type-85IIM
3rd Gen: Type-99, Export: Type-90->90II-->MBT-2000（where the AK-1 stands）
improved 3rd Gen: Type-99A ， export： MBT-3000/VT-4

Yes, I must admire how efficiently the layout was designed to show 650-700mm frontal armour on brochures, while keeping the tank as light as possible to claim max possible speed!

A true export variant...

But that also means basically anything goes off the ideal scenario & the tank is lost. But that's not China's problem.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Yes, I must admire how efficiently the layout was designed to show 650-700mm frontal armour on brochures, while keeping the tank as light as possible to claim max possible speed.
But that also means basically anything goes off the ideal scenario & the tank is lost... A true export variant!.. View attachment 60287

It's an inherent danger with all Soviet-style MBTs, heck it's the danger of stowing ammo in the hull in general. Look at what happened to the Turkish Leo 2A4s. My unsolicited advice for the Indian gunners - just aim for the hull fellas, aim for the hulls.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Which turret-armour is that?.. It's turret about can only stop upto 57mm auto-cannon rounds. People criticsze Arjuns gunner-sight placement, but look at T-14!
But it's modular & any damaged part can be changed on field, I read one claim that even the whole turret can be replaced in 1hr with only engineering vehicles.
. View attachment 60270

Ideally this is an perfect design with max possible protection.... except nobody knows if it'll actually work.

It's turret armour is 57mm because as you mentioned rightly so whole thing has been made modular, more armour + ERA can be added according to threat.
It is protected by probably the most advance APS ever Afghanit. It doesn't need a thick armour in first place at least not for now.
it was smashing longer depleted uranium APFSDS rounds at speeds of up to 2km/s during tests , Why do you thing Germany and France are going for 130mm gun. Russians are claiming they will enhanced it all the way to 3000 m/s. To deal with any future threats.
as for Arjun gunner sight, well it is a problem. one is manned turret other isn't.

.

.
Any tank worth its money would be able to hit the turre, damaging optics & autoloader mechanism. Then what, it'll run over the enemy?

Don't know much about that.

no western tank is penetrating Afghanit protection bubble anytime soon. Germany and France are going for bigger 130mm gun to deal with it while Russia will probably enhance Afghanit further to remain ahead.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars here are some different design philosophies that I can think of.

Ditto 1 . Auto turret with reduced armour and more dependent on APS. T 14 Armata.

Ditto 2 . Increase weight in the armour and dependent on APS. Merkeva Mark 4.

Ditto 3 . Advanced Light Weight Armour and dependent on APS.

Ditto 4 . Covering the front with the maximum Armour and dependent on APS. VT 4.

Ditto 5. The MBT 70s like design and APS.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Ya'll Nibbiars here are some different design philosophies that I can think of.

Ditto 1 . Auto turret with reduced armour and more dependent on APS. T 14 Armata.

Ditto 2 . Increase weight in the armour and dependent on APS. Merkeva Mark 4.

Ditto 3 . Advanced Light Weight Armour and dependent on APS.

Ditto 4 . Covering the front with the maximum Armour and dependent on APS. VT 4.

Ditto 5. The MBT 70s like design and APS.

Ditto 1 is the future.

 

[shiphone]

Yes, I must admire how efficiently the layout was designed to show 650-700mm frontal armour on brochures, while keeping the tank as light as possible to claim max possible speed!

A true export variant... View attachment 60287

But that also means basically anything goes off the ideal scenario & the tank is lost. But that's not China's problem.

LOL...so you will buy that idiot's 900hp engine theory?...

again, rember: this is a 52 tons or 53+ tons(Pakistan), 3-Crew tank with a 1200hp/1300hp engine.
hp/ton ratio: 23 hp/ton or 24.5 hp/ton

1200? 1300? 1500? which one is correct? ---I'm afraid that all are correct...LOL...

the VT-4's engine is essentially the 1500hp V12 engine(similar to the Type99A engine) , but the output power is limited for longer service life (source: the same interview with the VT-4 project Chief Designer). for the 52 tons Thailand and Nigeria chosen VT-4 , it is set to 1200hp. PA's VT-4 is heavier with more protection, then it is set to 1300hp...BTW, Type99A is a 55+ tons MBT (27 hp/ton), so it is set for full output...for the 45 tons Type 96B (22 hp/ton)with the 1000hp V10 engine varient , we have seen the 79km/h max speed record during the tank biathlon of this year...

------------
one more detail about the enchanced protection of PA's VT-4

and I thought you might feel more pity for M-1 and challenger2...lol

 

[Shashank Nayak]

It's turret armour is 57mm because as you mentioned rightly so whole thing has been made modular, more armour + ERA can be added according to threat.
It is protected by probably the most advance APS ever Afghanit. It doesn't need a thick armour in first place at least not for now.
it was smashing longer depleted uranium APFSDS rounds at speeds of up to 2km/s during tests , Why do you thing Germany and France are going for 130mm gun. Russians are claiming they will enhanced it all the way to 3000 m/s. To deal with any future threats.
as for Arjun gunner sight, well it is a problem. one is manned turret other isn't.

no western tank is penetrating Afghanit protection bubble anytime soon. Germany and France are going for bigger 130mm gun to deal with it while Russia will probably enhance Afghanit further to remain ahead.

What about the scenario where you might have to fight with the radar turned off.. to keep its radar signature low.. I still hope they bulk up turret armour in the armata..

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiara I always thought the MBT 70 design philosophy was good. The only drawback was the disorientation when the turret was rotated, effect due to the design. The cupola location matters most in this kind of designs.

 

[Swiftfarts]

What about the scenario where you might have to fight with the radar turned off.. to keep its radar signature low.. I still hope they bulk up turret armour in the armata..

It's a mm wave frequency hopping AESA giving it superior LPI characteristics , no need to turn of anything

 

[Trololo]

Ya'll Nibbiars if this was possible then yes. Should seriously consider a Tank EX MK 2.
View attachment 60278

Can anyone tell me where does the Arjun's barrel bend detector located? I see a notch on the barrel but not the detector which is almost always inline with the barrel. Also, what are those black spots on the gun mantle that have bathtub drain-plug like caps on them?