Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.

[Unknowncommando 2]

JAT Regiment Jawan carrying new SIG 716

 

[Lonewarrior]

JAT Regiment Jawan carrying new SIG 716
View attachment 54318

So now you are competing with Prasun Da

 

[Mangal]

JAT Regiment Jawan carrying new SIG 716
View attachment 54318

One thing that is very commendable about US arms industry is the speed with which they have delivered the products after contracts have been signed. Be it chinooks, Apache, P8 poseidons or the Sig assault rifles. Unlike Russians they don't take a lot of time.

 

[BangaliBabu]

One thing that is very commendable about US arms industry is the speed with which they have delivered the products after contracts have been signed. Be it chinooks, Apache, P8 poseidons or the Sig assault rifles. Unlike Russians they don't take a lot of time.

absolutely right.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Again total bunkum. AR 15 bolt protects against gunk but cleaning would require removing takedown pins to divide the receivers.

For an AK, all it would require is to remove dust cover, clean as well as you can, put back dust cover, hand cycle/mortar gun and continue

nope all you have to do is remove one pin which is captive and the lower reciever hinges open.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Bullshit argument. Don't misconstrue facts.



This is data from actual weapon trials, participant US weapons were either Anderson Arms or Sig Sauer.

https://soldiersystems.net/2018/07/16/general-staff-requirement-gsr-new-assault-rifle/

we you are talking about pakistan here, i could perhaps mention new zealand that recently ditched their gas piston AUGs and have adopted a LMT direct impingement AR15.
And by the way i am not saying direct gas is better than piston, i am just saying that the ar15 is more than good enough for a service rifle.

 

[vampyrbladez]

we you are talking about pakistan here, i could perhaps mention new zealand that recently ditched their gas piston AUGs and have adopted a LMT direct impingement AR15.
And by the way i am not saying direct gas is better than piston, i am just saying that the ar15 is more than good enough for a service rifle.

DIs are good for bigger rounds like 7.62X51mm. GP are good for lighter rounds.

 

[operatorgrumby]

JAT Regiment Jawan carrying new SIG 716
View attachment 54318

I see it got MAGPUL furniture here ( pistol grip maybe ).

So we are running and gunning a modern AR with iron sights in 2020 !!!
SATAN SAVE THE QUEEN

 

[Akula]

I see it got MAGPUL furniture here ( pistol grip maybe ).

So we are running and gunning a modern AR with iron sights in 2020 !!!
SATAN SAVE THE QUEEN

Bel holographic sights were ordered by army but I think they haven't received them yet.

 

[piKacHHu]

Bel holographic sights were ordered by army but I think they haven't received them yet.

They need a good 4x-6x scope for engagements at 200-400 m at LOC/LAC, these ARs are not for CQB.

A tender for 12000 telescopic sights was floated last year. There is no news regarding award of contract though.

Indian Army in hunt for 12,000 telescopic sights for assault rifles

A proposal for the purchase of nearly 12,00 telescopic sights for new assault rifles is likely to be cleared by a high-level committee very shortly.

www.timesnownews.com

 

[Akula]

They need a good 4x-6x scope for engagements at 200-400 m at LOC/LAC, these ARs are not for CQB.

A tender for 12000 telescopic sights was floated last year. There is no news regarding award of contract though.

Indian Army in hunt for 12,000 telescopic sights for assault rifles

A proposal for the purchase of nearly 12,00 telescopic sights for new assault rifles is likely to be cleared by a high-level committee very shortly.

www.timesnownews.com

I have a question, are we buying magazines for Sig716 or going to manufacture it in India?

 

[Lonewarrior]

I have a question, are we buying magazines for Sig716 or going to manufacture it in India?

Naah.
SIG 716i uses standard AR-10 magazines, most commonly 7.62x51mm P-Mags.

P-Mags are the most sold product of Magpul so by no means they are going to license it. Moreover in this kind of fast track, off-the-shelf purchase.

Though OFBs can make old school aluminium AR-10 mags if the order is substantial.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I see it got MAGPUL furniture here ( pistol grip maybe )

Ya, but not the pistol grip.

Pistol grip - SIG Sauer AR grip
Magazine - Magpul P-Mag (any AR-10 mag)
Flip-up iron sights - IMI Defence TFS
Stock - Magpul CTR

So we are running and gunning a modern AR with iron sights in 2020 !!!

Yup.
Optics cost a ton of money.

And IIRC we are so broke that the original requirement of 6000 sniper rifles was slashed by 70% citing cost issues.

 

[Lonewarrior]

They need a good 4x-6x scope for engagements at 200-400 m at LOC/LAC, these ARs are not for CQB.

200-400m envelope is for INSAS and AKs.

The sole purpose of having 716s is to stretch it to 600-800m. And for that you will need a good 6-8x LPVO. Considering available options (obviously except Chinese or Brazilian) the price usually runs between 500 and 2500 bucks. Though possible, but not feasible to equip all rifles with optics.

So chances are only a few optics will be issued to a squad, something we currently see in J&K CI/CT Ops.

 

[piKacHHu]

200-400m envelope is for INSAS and AKs.

The sole purpose of having 716s is to stretch it to 600-800m. And for that you will need a good 6-8x LPVO. Considering available options (obviously except Chinese or Brazilian) the price usually runs between 500 and 2500 bucks. Though possible, but not feasible to equip all rifles with optics.

So chances are only a few optics will be issued to a squad, something we currently see in J&K CI/CT Ops.

Well I wrote this figure conservatively based on the rifles it is replacing (as you mentioned in the post). With scope, the G2 SS-GP version perform quite well up to 1000 yards. For DI SIG, I am hopeful that it could match the G2 but again to exploit this capability you need to train your infantry. I am hoping the jawan getting equipped with new SIGs will train enough to account for other factor that comes into play beyond 300 yards like windage, bullet drop etc. With engagement range from 600-1000,we are in domain of Designated Marksman.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Well I wrote this figure conservatively based on the rifles it is replacing (as you mentioned in the post). With scope, the G2 SS-GP version perform quite well up to 1000 yards. For DI SIG, I am hopeful that it could match the G2 but again to exploit this capability you need to train your infantry. I am hoping the jawan getting equipped with new SIGs will train enough to account for other factor that comes into play beyond 300 yards like windage, bullet drop etc. With engagement range from 600-1000,we are in domain of Designated Marksman.

Well sadly these aren't DMRs. DMR territory lies in 18-22" barrel, these are all 16". You will miss a slight amount of energy from these, so 1000 yards is bit difficult.

As you mentioned G2 and Tread, trust me if you are blindfolded and given both to shoot you will hardly notice and different.

Shooting wise only difference between SS-GP and DI are that DI is a little softer shooting and more accurate.

 

[piKacHHu]

Well sadly these aren't DMRs. DMR territory lies in 18-22" barrel, these are all 16". You will miss a slight amount of energy from these, so 1000 yards is bit difficult.

As you mentioned G2 and Tread, trust me if you are blindfolded and given both to shoot you will hardly notice and different.

Shooting wise only difference between SS-GP and DI are that DI is a little softer shooting and more accurate.

I agree to what you are saying.

My contention is with the range figure that you mentioned. What do you expect from a jawan who was earlier having INSAS and now getting SIGs without optics. There engagement range with BUIS will be remain same or slight improvement of say 100 yards IMO.

Even with optics, how far do you like him to engage?
Some idea could be taken from USMC soldiers having M4 +ACOG as standard issue. I believe they also don't stretch beyond 300-400 yards, may be due to limitation of 5.56 round.

Now, with full power cartridge and 4x scope, are we expecting each of our jawan to engage targets beyond 500 yards?

 

[Lonewarrior]

I agree to what you are saying.

My contention is with the range figure that you mentioned. What do you expect from a jawan who was earlier having INSAS and now getting SIGs without optics. There engagement range with BUIS will be remain same or slight improvement of say 100 yards IMO.

Even with optics, how far do you like him to engage?
Some idea could be taken from USMC soldiers having M4 +ACOG as standard issue. I believe they also don't stretch beyond 300-400 yards, may be due to limitation of 5.56 round.

Now, with full power cartridge and 4x scope, are we expecting each of our jawan to engage targets beyond 500 yards?

Shortest answer to your question.

We often use SVDs without optics

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

JAK LI Troops with new SIG 716

New sights are also coming

 

[Suryavanshi]

View attachment 55490
JAK LI Troops with new SIG 716

View attachment 55491
New sights are also coming

Just order 2 million of these and make it a standard issue rifle

How long are our guys gonna go without a proper rifle.
OFB won't change it's ways and no private one is capable.