binayak95
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naa dude, the DG Inf was a friend of my dad. Coursemate in fact.
He did in fact read and then explained exactly why his hands are tied, long and tired story
kabhi aur
Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.
- Thread starter WolfPack86
- Start date
He did in fact read and then explained exactly why his hands are tied, long and tired story
kabhi aur
Lonewarrior
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The stories are always different mate, but the ending is always
Exchanged some good four five mails with Ajay Kumar (at that time he used to head DIC); ultimately nothing happened
binayak95
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Aye exactly
SilentlAssassin265
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If the sig is working fine now why aren't they ordering more
WolfPack86
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India to ink ‘repeat order’ deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US
New Delhi: The defence ministry is in the final stages of approving a repeat order for 73,000 SiG 716 G2 patrol assault or battlefield rifles from the US to meet the requirements of its frontline troops, ThePrint has learnt.
Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that notwithstanding reports of alleged cancellation of the proposed order of SiG 716, the ‘repeat order’ procurement of 73,000 rifles by defence ministry “is at the final stage of approval”.
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles — 66,400 for the army, 4,000 for the air force and 2,000 for the Navy — of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under the government ‘Buy (Global) category’ through the fast track procedure (FTP).
The ‘Buy (Global)’ category refers to outright purchase of equipment from foreign vendors.
The consignment was delivered and distributed to the soldiers.
Contrary to initial plans to equip only frontline troops, the Army had then equipped over 400 infantry battalions with the SiG 716, as reported earlier. At least two companies (about 100 soldiers each) in all infantry battalions have been given the SiG 716 — irrespective of whether they are in the field or at peace stations.
The number of rifles distributed across the battalions differed, with some getting more than the others.
Defence sources said that considering the performance of the weapon, and to ensure operational necessity, commonality and associated logistics functionality, the defence ministry is now in the process of approving a repeat order of 73,000 SiG 716 assault rifles.
The fresh order is meant to meet the requirement of the remaining frontline troops, who did not receive these rifles the last time.
The reason for the selection of this particular weapon is because of a revision in the Indian Army’s operational philosophy in 2016, wherein the 7.62 x 51mm calibre was chosen over the 5.56 x 45mm calibre, as having the optimum calibre for operations, said sources.
They added that as a result, the SiG 716 Assault Rifle, being of higher calibre (7.62 x 51mm) has longer effective range, more lethality and higher recoil, as compared to the INSAS Rifle (5.56 x 51mm Calibre) or the AK-47 Rifle (7.62 x 39mm), which are also used.
Army goes in for beefing up of SiG rifles
Sources explained that since the induction of the SiG 716 Rifle, the Army has been using Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) manufactured ammunition with the weapon and no deviations in the performance of the weapon have been found.
ThePrint had earlier reported that the Army replaced the original American made ammunition with locally manufactured and easily available rounds of the 7.62 medium machine gun (MMG) ammunition because the American bullets were too expensive in the long term.
While sources in the defence establishment have said this does not have an impact on the performance of the rifle, another set of sources on the ground did say that this led to higher recoil — an issue which can be dealt by better production quality ammunition.
Sources explained that the SiG 716 rifles are also fitted with picatinny rails to facilitate mounting of various equipment and accessories, such as optical sights, under barrel grenade launcher (UBGL), forehand grip, bipod and laser pointer, without any modification to the weapon.
Asked why the accessories were not bought with the original rifle in 2019, the sources said these equipment and accessories, like optical sights, are generally procured after the induction of the weapon.
Considering the utility of forehand grip, the Army procured it from an indigenous source.
Explaining why the SiG rifles are better than the INSAS — other than in terms of the range and lethality — the sources said the SiG 716 Rifle also has an ‘automatic’ mode of firing (similar to AK-47), compared to the three-round burst (TRB) mode of an INSAS rifle.
The sources added that to optimally utilise these features of the weapon, a certain number of bipods have been procured, to enable the use of the weapon in multiple roles and increase its effective range to greater distances.
“Hence, post-induction of the SiG 716 Rifle into the inventory, cases for procurement of day telescopic sight and night sight, thermal imaging and image intensifier for the weapons have been processed from indigenous source,” the sources said.
theprint.in
New Delhi: The defence ministry is in the final stages of approving a repeat order for 73,000 SiG 716 G2 patrol assault or battlefield rifles from the US to meet the requirements of its frontline troops, ThePrint has learnt.
Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that notwithstanding reports of alleged cancellation of the proposed order of SiG 716, the ‘repeat order’ procurement of 73,000 rifles by defence ministry “is at the final stage of approval”.
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles — 66,400 for the army, 4,000 for the air force and 2,000 for the Navy — of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under the government ‘Buy (Global) category’ through the fast track procedure (FTP).
The ‘Buy (Global)’ category refers to outright purchase of equipment from foreign vendors.
The consignment was delivered and distributed to the soldiers.
Contrary to initial plans to equip only frontline troops, the Army had then equipped over 400 infantry battalions with the SiG 716, as reported earlier. At least two companies (about 100 soldiers each) in all infantry battalions have been given the SiG 716 — irrespective of whether they are in the field or at peace stations.
The number of rifles distributed across the battalions differed, with some getting more than the others.
Defence sources said that considering the performance of the weapon, and to ensure operational necessity, commonality and associated logistics functionality, the defence ministry is now in the process of approving a repeat order of 73,000 SiG 716 assault rifles.
The fresh order is meant to meet the requirement of the remaining frontline troops, who did not receive these rifles the last time.
The reason for the selection of this particular weapon is because of a revision in the Indian Army’s operational philosophy in 2016, wherein the 7.62 x 51mm calibre was chosen over the 5.56 x 45mm calibre, as having the optimum calibre for operations, said sources.
They added that as a result, the SiG 716 Assault Rifle, being of higher calibre (7.62 x 51mm) has longer effective range, more lethality and higher recoil, as compared to the INSAS Rifle (5.56 x 51mm Calibre) or the AK-47 Rifle (7.62 x 39mm), which are also used.
Army goes in for beefing up of SiG rifles
Sources explained that since the induction of the SiG 716 Rifle, the Army has been using Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) manufactured ammunition with the weapon and no deviations in the performance of the weapon have been found.
ThePrint had earlier reported that the Army replaced the original American made ammunition with locally manufactured and easily available rounds of the 7.62 medium machine gun (MMG) ammunition because the American bullets were too expensive in the long term.
While sources in the defence establishment have said this does not have an impact on the performance of the rifle, another set of sources on the ground did say that this led to higher recoil — an issue which can be dealt by better production quality ammunition.
Sources explained that the SiG 716 rifles are also fitted with picatinny rails to facilitate mounting of various equipment and accessories, such as optical sights, under barrel grenade launcher (UBGL), forehand grip, bipod and laser pointer, without any modification to the weapon.
Asked why the accessories were not bought with the original rifle in 2019, the sources said these equipment and accessories, like optical sights, are generally procured after the induction of the weapon.
Considering the utility of forehand grip, the Army procured it from an indigenous source.
Explaining why the SiG rifles are better than the INSAS — other than in terms of the range and lethality — the sources said the SiG 716 Rifle also has an ‘automatic’ mode of firing (similar to AK-47), compared to the three-round burst (TRB) mode of an INSAS rifle.
The sources added that to optimally utilise these features of the weapon, a certain number of bipods have been procured, to enable the use of the weapon in multiple roles and increase its effective range to greater distances.
“Hence, post-induction of the SiG 716 Rifle into the inventory, cases for procurement of day telescopic sight and night sight, thermal imaging and image intensifier for the weapons have been processed from indigenous source,” the sources said.
India to ink 'repeat order' deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under government's 'Buy (Global) category', through fast track procedure.
theprint.in
Mangal
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The article is nearly an year old. I believe they have finally decided to cancel the order because India is not able to produce quality ammo required for the rifle.India to ink ‘repeat order’ deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US
New Delhi: The defence ministry is in the final stages of approving a repeat order for 73,000 SiG 716 G2 patrol assault or battlefield rifles from the US to meet the requirements of its frontline troops, ThePrint has learnt.
Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that notwithstanding reports of alleged cancellation of the proposed order of SiG 716, the ‘repeat order’ procurement of 73,000 rifles by defence ministry “is at the final stage of approval”.
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles — 66,400 for the army, 4,000 for the air force and 2,000 for the Navy — of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under the government ‘Buy (Global) category’ through the fast track procedure (FTP).
The ‘Buy (Global)’ category refers to outright purchase of equipment from foreign vendors.
The consignment was delivered and distributed to the soldiers.
Contrary to initial plans to equip only frontline troops, the Army had then equipped over 400 infantry battalions with the SiG 716, as reported earlier. At least two companies (about 100 soldiers each) in all infantry battalions have been given the SiG 716 — irrespective of whether they are in the field or at peace stations.
The number of rifles distributed across the battalions differed, with some getting more than the others.
Defence sources said that considering the performance of the weapon, and to ensure operational necessity, commonality and associated logistics functionality, the defence ministry is now in the process of approving a repeat order of 73,000 SiG 716 assault rifles.
The fresh order is meant to meet the requirement of the remaining frontline troops, who did not receive these rifles the last time.
The reason for the selection of this particular weapon is because of a revision in the Indian Army’s operational philosophy in 2016, wherein the 7.62 x 51mm calibre was chosen over the 5.56 x 45mm calibre, as having the optimum calibre for operations, said sources.
They added that as a result, the SiG 716 Assault Rifle, being of higher calibre (7.62 x 51mm) has longer effective range, more lethality and higher recoil, as compared to the INSAS Rifle (5.56 x 51mm Calibre) or the AK-47 Rifle (7.62 x 39mm), which are also used.
Army goes in for beefing up of SiG rifles
Sources explained that since the induction of the SiG 716 Rifle, the Army has been using Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) manufactured ammunition with the weapon and no deviations in the performance of the weapon have been found.
ThePrint had earlier reported that the Army replaced the original American made ammunition with locally manufactured and easily available rounds of the 7.62 medium machine gun (MMG) ammunition because the American bullets were too expensive in the long term.
While sources in the defence establishment have said this does not have an impact on the performance of the rifle, another set of sources on the ground did say that this led to higher recoil — an issue which can be dealt by better production quality ammunition.
Sources explained that the SiG 716 rifles are also fitted with picatinny rails to facilitate mounting of various equipment and accessories, such as optical sights, under barrel grenade launcher (UBGL), forehand grip, bipod and laser pointer, without any modification to the weapon.
Asked why the accessories were not bought with the original rifle in 2019, the sources said these equipment and accessories, like optical sights, are generally procured after the induction of the weapon.
Considering the utility of forehand grip, the Army procured it from an indigenous source.
Explaining why the SiG rifles are better than the INSAS — other than in terms of the range and lethality — the sources said the SiG 716 Rifle also has an ‘automatic’ mode of firing (similar to AK-47), compared to the three-round burst (TRB) mode of an INSAS rifle.
The sources added that to optimally utilise these features of the weapon, a certain number of bipods have been procured, to enable the use of the weapon in multiple roles and increase its effective range to greater distances.
“Hence, post-induction of the SiG 716 Rifle into the inventory, cases for procurement of day telescopic sight and night sight, thermal imaging and image intensifier for the weapons have been processed from indigenous source,” the sources said.
India to ink 'repeat order' deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under government's 'Buy (Global) category', through fast track procedure.
Lonewarrior
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Koi is bot ko maaro reIndia to ink ‘repeat order’ deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US
New Delhi: The defence ministry is in the final stages of approving a repeat order for 73,000 SiG 716 G2 patrol assault or battlefield rifles from the US to meet the requirements of its frontline troops, ThePrint has learnt.
Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that notwithstanding reports of alleged cancellation of the proposed order of SiG 716, the ‘repeat order’ procurement of 73,000 rifles by defence ministry “is at the final stage of approval”.
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles — 66,400 for the army, 4,000 for the air force and 2,000 for the Navy — of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under the government ‘Buy (Global) category’ through the fast track procedure (FTP).
The ‘Buy (Global)’ category refers to outright purchase of equipment from foreign vendors.
The consignment was delivered and distributed to the soldiers.
Contrary to initial plans to equip only frontline troops, the Army had then equipped over 400 infantry battalions with the SiG 716, as reported earlier. At least two companies (about 100 soldiers each) in all infantry battalions have been given the SiG 716 — irrespective of whether they are in the field or at peace stations.
The number of rifles distributed across the battalions differed, with some getting more than the others.
Defence sources said that considering the performance of the weapon, and to ensure operational necessity, commonality and associated logistics functionality, the defence ministry is now in the process of approving a repeat order of 73,000 SiG 716 assault rifles.
The fresh order is meant to meet the requirement of the remaining frontline troops, who did not receive these rifles the last time.
The reason for the selection of this particular weapon is because of a revision in the Indian Army’s operational philosophy in 2016, wherein the 7.62 x 51mm calibre was chosen over the 5.56 x 45mm calibre, as having the optimum calibre for operations, said sources.
They added that as a result, the SiG 716 Assault Rifle, being of higher calibre (7.62 x 51mm) has longer effective range, more lethality and higher recoil, as compared to the INSAS Rifle (5.56 x 51mm Calibre) or the AK-47 Rifle (7.62 x 39mm), which are also used.
Army goes in for beefing up of SiG rifles
Sources explained that since the induction of the SiG 716 Rifle, the Army has been using Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) manufactured ammunition with the weapon and no deviations in the performance of the weapon have been found.
ThePrint had earlier reported that the Army replaced the original American made ammunition with locally manufactured and easily available rounds of the 7.62 medium machine gun (MMG) ammunition because the American bullets were too expensive in the long term.
While sources in the defence establishment have said this does not have an impact on the performance of the rifle, another set of sources on the ground did say that this led to higher recoil — an issue which can be dealt by better production quality ammunition.
Sources explained that the SiG 716 rifles are also fitted with picatinny rails to facilitate mounting of various equipment and accessories, such as optical sights, under barrel grenade launcher (UBGL), forehand grip, bipod and laser pointer, without any modification to the weapon.
Asked why the accessories were not bought with the original rifle in 2019, the sources said these equipment and accessories, like optical sights, are generally procured after the induction of the weapon.
Considering the utility of forehand grip, the Army procured it from an indigenous source.
Explaining why the SiG rifles are better than the INSAS — other than in terms of the range and lethality — the sources said the SiG 716 Rifle also has an ‘automatic’ mode of firing (similar to AK-47), compared to the three-round burst (TRB) mode of an INSAS rifle.
The sources added that to optimally utilise these features of the weapon, a certain number of bipods have been procured, to enable the use of the weapon in multiple roles and increase its effective range to greater distances.
“Hence, post-induction of the SiG 716 Rifle into the inventory, cases for procurement of day telescopic sight and night sight, thermal imaging and image intensifier for the weapons have been processed from indigenous source,” the sources said.
India to ink 'repeat order' deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under government's 'Buy (Global) category', through fast track procedure.
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also as far as i know that 'theprint' article IS THE ONLY article that mentions repeat order on news; rest all cites this one as ;source; for entire repeat order thing; and even in article it's written as ;they are in final stage of repeating order; 'to ink' etc future tenses back then;
so did it really get repeated or just Snehesh Phillip wrote it down based on some rumours from ;sources said;
? Didn't we get those ;import ban list; thing around same time last year and they put 7.62 NATO rifles too in that list as to putting only "desi" rifles to the armed forces, then how come this repeat order came into picture IF IT EVEN HAPPENED ?Had it really been signed already by now we would have seen every damn news wallah on internet चेपना of articles, youtubers making BHARAT NE DUBARA KARA SABSE GHATAK AMERICAN SIG RIFLES KA ORDER (with xi jinping sed face on one side
) and such giga level of circlejerks over it but i am not seeing anything like that; so what to conclude? Repeat order hua hain ki nahi hua ? Hua hain toh iska source do
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Never trust any defence articles in our news media, its mostly dalals financing paid news lobbies to print their own speculation and build pressure. Until and unless it gets inducted, don't believe any of these nonsensical writeupsalso as far as i know that 'theprint' article IS THE ONLY article that mentions repeat order on news; rest all cites this one as ;source; for entire repeat order thing; and even in article it's written as ;they are in final stage of repeating order; 'to ink' etc future tenses back then;
so did it really get repeated or just Snehesh Phillip wrote it down based on some rumours from ;sources said;
Had it really been signed already by now we would have seen every damn news wallah on internet चेपना of articles, youtubers making BHARAT NE DUBARA KARA SABSE GHATAK AMERICAN SIG RIFLES KA ORDER (with xi jinping sed face on one side
Automatic Kalashnikov
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AnantS
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That too only in PR photo ops
WolfPack86
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India eyeing mass production of advanced Sig Sauer 716 AR Rifles
WolfPack86
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India Optel limited secures limited advance telescope for Sig 716 assault rifle
Hari Sud
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The much maligned INSAS rifle has done its time with the Indian Army. All those defects talked about in last 15 years were not unusually high. The same developmental issues were present in M-16, the American rifle. In Vietnam for 10 years, it jammed and soldiers dumped M-16 and grabbed Vietcong AK47. It took ten years before M-16 began to work properly.India to ink ‘repeat order’ deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US
New Delhi: The defence ministry is in the final stages of approving a repeat order for 73,000 SiG 716 G2 patrol assault or battlefield rifles from the US to meet the requirements of its frontline troops, ThePrint has learnt.
Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that notwithstanding reports of alleged cancellation of the proposed order of SiG 716, the ‘repeat order’ procurement of 73,000 rifles by defence ministry “is at the final stage of approval”.
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles — 66,400 for the army, 4,000 for the air force and 2,000 for the Navy — of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under the government ‘Buy (Global) category’ through the fast track procedure (FTP).
The ‘Buy (Global)’ category refers to outright purchase of equipment from foreign vendors.
The consignment was delivered and distributed to the soldiers.
Contrary to initial plans to equip only frontline troops, the Army had then equipped over 400 infantry battalions with the SiG 716, as reported earlier. At least two companies (about 100 soldiers each) in all infantry battalions have been given the SiG 716 — irrespective of whether they are in the field or at peace stations.
The number of rifles distributed across the battalions differed, with some getting more than the others.
Defence sources said that considering the performance of the weapon, and to ensure operational necessity, commonality and associated logistics functionality, the defence ministry is now in the process of approving a repeat order of 73,000 SiG 716 assault rifles.
The fresh order is meant to meet the requirement of the remaining frontline troops, who did not receive these rifles the last time.
The reason for the selection of this particular weapon is because of a revision in the Indian Army’s operational philosophy in 2016, wherein the 7.62 x 51mm calibre was chosen over the 5.56 x 45mm calibre, as having the optimum calibre for operations, said sources.
They added that as a result, the SiG 716 Assault Rifle, being of higher calibre (7.62 x 51mm) has longer effective range, more lethality and higher recoil, as compared to the INSAS Rifle (5.56 x 51mm Calibre) or the AK-47 Rifle (7.62 x 39mm), which are also used.
Army goes in for beefing up of SiG rifles
Sources explained that since the induction of the SiG 716 Rifle, the Army has been using Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) manufactured ammunition with the weapon and no deviations in the performance of the weapon have been found.
ThePrint had earlier reported that the Army replaced the original American made ammunition with locally manufactured and easily available rounds of the 7.62 medium machine gun (MMG) ammunition because the American bullets were too expensive in the long term.
While sources in the defence establishment have said this does not have an impact on the performance of the rifle, another set of sources on the ground did say that this led to higher recoil — an issue which can be dealt by better production quality ammunition.
Sources explained that the SiG 716 rifles are also fitted with picatinny rails to facilitate mounting of various equipment and accessories, such as optical sights, under barrel grenade launcher (UBGL), forehand grip, bipod and laser pointer, without any modification to the weapon.
Asked why the accessories were not bought with the original rifle in 2019, the sources said these equipment and accessories, like optical sights, are generally procured after the induction of the weapon.
Considering the utility of forehand grip, the Army procured it from an indigenous source.
Explaining why the SiG rifles are better than the INSAS — other than in terms of the range and lethality — the sources said the SiG 716 Rifle also has an ‘automatic’ mode of firing (similar to AK-47), compared to the three-round burst (TRB) mode of an INSAS rifle.
The sources added that to optimally utilise these features of the weapon, a certain number of bipods have been procured, to enable the use of the weapon in multiple roles and increase its effective range to greater distances.
“Hence, post-induction of the SiG 716 Rifle into the inventory, cases for procurement of day telescopic sight and night sight, thermal imaging and image intensifier for the weapons have been processed from indigenous source,” the sources said.
India to ink 'repeat order' deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US
In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under government's 'Buy (Global) category', through fast track procedure.
Much of the anti INSAS propaganda was marketing lead by both the London Group and the European manufacturers looking for business for replacing INSAS. They did not succeed. A very limited number of SIg rifles were purchased and bulk of the order and local manufacture was given to Russian AK 203. The latter proved to be reliable and has the qualities which the Indian Army wanted.
Remember that 3 round burst was specifically designed for INSAS because the Vietnam experience showed the military planners that too much ammunition was wasted with ‘Auto’ mode. It is a published data that to kill one Vietcong 150 rounds had to be fired in Auto mode, hence the three round burst came into existence. All other INSAS issues were minor repair and cleaning problems. It was in the media that Sig rifle is not free from these problems hence the second batch was not ordered.
Now it is all history. In three years all INSAS will be replaced, hence foul mouthing a rifle which served the Indian Army for three decades is not a good idea.
ManhattanProject
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Most of the problems with the AR happened because the soldiers were told you dont meed to clean the AR15 as its new technology, on top of that they werent supplied with cleaning kits at the start of the conflict. The mags were supposed to be use and throw but as always they were being used repeatedly by the soldiers leading to more issues. Just like the INSAS the design is sound but the execution was shitty. The US did not give up though and actually improved the rifle, the Indian Army isnt mature enough to do that.
Lonewarrior
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Okay...that's quite a lot to unpack. Let's go bit by bit.
1. M16 Vs INSAS
Just saying that M16 had problems and INSAS have problems so they're same would be quite superficial analysis, you'll need to consider the nuances. Let's start with M16
> For you IMR 4475 and WC 846 maybe random combination of letters - numbers but this was more or less the whole problem with M16 in Vietnam. M16 was developed to work with a certain composition of gunpowder called "IMR 4475". But during deployment US Army decided to issue cartridges with another composition "WC 846" as a cost cutting measure. This new cartridge had a completely different pressure curve, was slightly higher pressure and caused increased corrosion...basically it's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and wishing it works.
(Memorize this issue in M16 because of powder change, it'll come back to haunt you in the later part of this long a** article of mine)
> Marketing by ArmaLite hyped M16 to be a "self-cleaning" rifle and issued no cleaning kit with it as opposed to the long standing practice of adding a trapdoor in the wooden buttstock of rifles for cleaning kit. M16 maybe self-cleaning in hot - dry weather of Aberdeen Proving Ground but in warm - wet jungle of Vietnam it needed regular maintenance.
> US Army suddenly decided to skip what it had done on most of its previous rifles as a cost cutting measure; chrome plating. This when met the corrosive ammunition and wet conditions of Vietnam proved to be the last nail in the coffin.
Now come to problems with INSAS
> Unexplained jamming despite maintanence (the Nepal incident)
> Magazine was too fragile. So were the plastic furniture that used to break
> The three rounds burst (3BR) setting would fire in full auto
> Corrosion, paint getting chipped off, flimsy stamped parts, phosphate coating not Mil-Spec.
What do you find common the all the problems of each rifle?
It's the fact that all three issues of M16 were a management f-up. As compared to INSAS where some were design issues and most were bad QC.
So saying that M16 had issues and INSAS had them too, so there's same is not a correct assessment.
2. US soldiers used to drop their M16 and pick-up enemy AK47s
Now this is something that comes up quite a lot and the fun fact is it's a pure myth/urban legend/propaganda. I'll counter each point
> "US troops preferred AK47 to their rifles" True, they did. But there's a slight problem in this propaganda, US troops preferred AK47 to their M14s before seeing/getting M16s. AK47s were lighter, shorter, easier to shoot and had 10 more rounds compared to M14s.
> "VietCong never picked M16s from fallen soldiers" Again true, but the question is what are they going to do with that M16 after they had expended 30rd of ammunition? From where are the going to procure 5.56x45mm ammo to feed those M16s?
> "Even elite US SpecOps troops used AK47s instead of M16s" Also true. Fun fact : SEALs still maintain a huge cache of AK47s and PKMs. But this is done not because of superiority but simply to blend in with the enemy or to do false flag operations.
3. INSAS replacement
Army wanted to replace INSAS with a single rifle capable of firing multiple calibers; 5.56x45mm, 6.8 SPC and 7.62x39mm. This is what Army wanted and had asked DRDO to develop...no fictional "London Group" of yours, no European manufacturers, nothing...just Army and DRDO; the epitome of Atmanirbhar Bharat if you would like to say.
But soon things started falling one by one; a multi calibre system was deemed complex, 6.8 SPC lost its hype in global markets, it's cost would be high given new tooling...ultimately leading to a back and forth of multiple RFPs and revised RFIs.
And then out of nowhere we decided to order 6,00,000 million AK203 from Russia because they're grumpy of our growing closeness with the West. Our lives were pretty sorted...empty AK47 at close ranges in terrorists and bonk Pakistani army with 120mm mortars on regular basis. This was literally our whole doctrine until Galwan happened and we realised we have nothing to fight in long ranges. So an ad-hoc SIG716s purchase was done.
Again you may ask them why not AR7.62? Simply because even if we ignore all the teething issues with it, an AK47 in 7.62x51mm is never a good idea. A quasi-DI system like AR10 would eat it as breakfast.
4. Problems with SIG716
Remember that issue with M16 because of powder change? Well it's time to discuss it again.
SIG716s were used to work with 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition but we on the other hand used (use even today) a hotter round of 7.62x51mm because the only weapon we had in that caliber was FN MAG; a solid metal chunk of an MMG. So when we used that ammo in SIGs the predictable happened; it started to jam and the recoil was harsh.
So eventually we changed our tooling to started making NATO spec ammunition and after that all the problems with SIGs are pretty much sorted.
As for not ordering the second batch, it's more of a recent "ban all laptop" issue than a technical one.
I know you won't read all these, so here's a concise version of everything just for you
> INSAS was a s*it design, s*itly made rifle that's why it's getting replaced
> INSAS was very much perfect by things like Kalantak or Ishapore Carbine
> If army really needed an AK then we already had TAR; tested by army and in service with CAPFs
> Indian Gov decided to buy AKs to please Russia, as a result 0.6 million AK203 got shoved down Army's throat ending all dreams of getting a good rifle
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Hari Sud
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‘your summary at the foot of the post has all worthless points. Don’t repeat them again.
Lonewarrior
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Counter them, add your argument for each point instead of just saying "worthless points" and running away from it...obviously if you can
binayak95
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Spot on!
I was debating with myself if i should bother with correcting the vast false narrative on the AR platform and the INSAS. Ended up telling myself it was not worth it.
Danke
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