Indian Army: News and Discussion

[ezsasa]

Spike ER is 35 kg and range is 8km while NAG is 45 kg with range if 4km. How is it meaningful?

Subtract the weight of the warhead, you might get the same weight.

Wiki says nag warhead is 8kg.
I Donno about weight of spike warhead.

 

[Armand2REP]

SPIKE would be used across LOC and LAC along with other infantry troops, whereas NAG is solely for desert warfare and offensive strike capability on rapid deployment in short.

It is rather ironic with the seeker troubles that NAG would have been ideal for the cooler temperatures without the Sofradir DDCA and could maintain 100% indigenous production.

 

[Vijyes]

It is rather ironic with the seeker troubles that NAG would have been ideal for the cooler temperatures without the Sofradir DDCA and could maintain 100% indigenous production.

NAG can be used anywhere. Even in 50 degree Celsius heat, NAG can hit accurately due to the change in seeker. Nag now has 3 IIR seekers for different scenarios and one of them will always hit in any temperature.

LoC is highly mountainous and difficult for using ATGM. For the border post strikes, it is better to use Mortar or unguided rockets or Carl Gustaf type 2nd generation ATGM

 

[Armand2REP]

NAG can be used anywhere. Even in 50 degree Celsius heat, NAG can hit accurately due to the change in seeker. Nag now has 3 IIR seekers for different scenarios and one of them will always hit in any temperature.

LoC is highly mountainous and difficult for using ATGM. For the border post strikes, it is better to use Mortar or unguided rockets or Carl Gustaf type 2nd generation ATGM

It can now thanks to the cooling filter, ie DDCA. If NAG is going to be the Indian version of Hellfire they need to get it on the LCH like yesterday.

 

[Chinmoy]

It is rather ironic with the seeker troubles that NAG would have been ideal for the cooler temperatures without the Sofradir DDCA and could maintain 100% indigenous production.

You forgot to mention one basic but most important component of any MANPATGM, CLU. NAG has seeker, but to make it an effective MANPATGM like SPIKE or JAVELIN or any thing else, you need a equally good CLU. Now miniaturizing the CLU is a tough nut to crack.
But with evolving CLGM, we might see work done on that front.

 

[Vijyes]

You forgot to mention one basic but most important component of any MANPATGM, CLU. NAG has seeker, but to make it an effective MANPATGM like SPIKE or JAVELIN or any thing else, you need a equally good CLU. Now miniaturizing the CLU is a tough nut to crack.
But with evolving CLGM, we might see work done on that front.

That is where SPIKE-MR ToT comes in. I am not sure if we will ever get SMAW type shoulder launch ATGM with 0.5-1 km range. That will be very hard

 

[airtel]

The generations of RPGs are as follows:

1st gen - simple controlled RPG, controlled by joystick and radiowaves like in vido games
2nd gen - wire controled laser guided whereby the shooter has to point at the target with a laser and the rocket homes in
3rd gen - seeker based fire and forget missile. Lahat, Spike, NAG etc are of that category.
4th gen - data link both ways to change target in mid course. It is in Helina version of NAG.

It is Israel that is naming wrongly.

And what is the 5th generation ATGM?

http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-defense-company-unveils-5th-generation-Spike-missile-494245



And why India is not buying the latest generation ATGM?

 

[Vijyes]

And what is the 5th generation ATGM?

http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-defense-company-unveils-5th-generation-Spike-missile-494245



And why India is not buying the latest generation ATGM?

In India we call it 4th generation. Ask Israelis what is the 3rd and 4th generation ATGM. They just skipped 3rd generation outright.

We don't need 4th generation Spike (according to israel, 5th generation) as we need a more or less manportable fire and forget ATGM and not a wire guided advanced ATGM. The range if 2.5km is too less to change targets midway.

 

[airtel]

In India we call it 4th generation. Ask Israelis what is the 3rd and 4th generation ATGM. They just skipped 3rd generation outright.

We don't need 4th generation Spike (according to israel, 5th generation) as we need a more or less manportable fire and forget ATGM and not a wire guided advanced ATGM. The range if 2.5km is too less to change targets midway.

At least read the article and specifications.

 

[Vijyes]

At least read the article and specifications.

I read it. I understood it.

By the way, your profile picture changing regularly distracts people and may even confuse those who don't pay much attention at your profile name

 

[Chinmoy]

And what is the 5th generation ATGM?

http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-defense-company-unveils-5th-generation-Spike-missile-494245



And why India is not buying the latest generation ATGM?

Was trying to open the link, but sorry that unable to do so. Anyway the 5th gen ATGM is still in development phase. It is as same as 4th gen with the added feature of third party targeting. You could think it as a simple LGBM used by air force. The only catch is, the guidance system, which is much more complex. Can't say about Israel developing one although SPIKE NLOS could be one, but another one in development is PPM by France.

So there is no point in buying a under developing system.

 

[airtel]

Was trying to open the link, but sorry that unable to do so. Anyway the 5th gen ATGM is still in development phase. It is as same as 4th gen with the added feature of third party targeting. You could think it as a simple LGBM used by air force. The only catch is, the guidance system, which is much more complex. Can't say about Israel developing one although SPIKE NLOS could be one, but another one in development is PPM by France.

So there is no point in buying a under developing system.

Israeli defense company unveils 5th-generation Spike missile
ByAnna Ahronheim
May 29, 2017 17:45

Rafael Advanced Defense Systems says the missile is designed for use against new modern targets with a low signature and time-sensitive characteristics.
2 minute read.

Spike LR II system. (photo credit:RAFAEL ADVANCED DEFENSE SYSTEMS)


Rafael Advanced Defense Systems has unveiled its fifth-generation Spike multipurpose missile with a significant increase in range and lethality.

According to a statement released Monday by the company, the Spike LR II “is an advanced multipurpose missile, weighing only 12.7 kg., and can be launched from any Spike launcher.” It has a range of 5.5 km. when fired from ground launchers and up to 10 km. when fired from a helicopter.



The Spike LR II, which can be fired from vehicles, helicopters, ships and ground launchers, has advanced electro-optic seekers which include capabilities of a smart target tracker with artificial intelligence features.

Designed for use against new modern targets with a low signature and time-sensitive characteristics, the missile also includes new third-party target allocation (networked-enabled) enhancement with an embedded inertial measurement unit assembly, which allows the missiles to be fired to grid target coordinates, including advanced armor and protection systems. It is one of the only missiles in the world with this capability.

The Spike LR II also has two advanced warhead configurations for increased lethality, the company said. The Tandem HEAT warhead configuration ups the armor penetration capability of the missile by over 30% and the new multipurpose blast warhead, which includes controlled fusing (by the gunner) for control of the desired effect.

“The development of the Spike LR II is based on Rafael’s vast experience in the development of a wide variety of missiles over the years, and was largely possible due to Rafael’s close cooperation with the users at the IDF and other militaries around the world,” said Moshe Elazar, executive vice president and head of Rafael’s land and naval systems division.

The Spike LR II missile, which Elazar says addresses the complex challenges of the modern battlefield, will be presented for the first time at the Paris Air Show in June.

Rafael has three missiles in the Spike family, Spike NLOS, Spike ER, Spike MR/LR and Spike SR, and has supplied over 27,000 Spike missiles and systems to over 26 countries, including to the Philippines, Lithuania, Australia and India, where they are used by armies on various naval and land system platforms.

In March an Israel Navy unmanned vessel fired a Spike interceptor missile from a Protector unmanned surface vehicle during a test by Rafael systems. According to the company, the model’s missiles can intercept rocket-propelled grenades and other incoming projectiles.

“This new capability allows pinpoint attack of land or naval targets, enabling safe vessel operation, with no risk to the operating force, from a remote command and control room or from aboard other naval platforms,” read a statement by Rafael.

 

[Chinmoy]

Israeli defense company unveils 5th-generation Spike missile
ByAnna Ahronheim
May 29, 2017 17:45

Rafael Advanced Defense Systems says the missile is designed for use against new modern targets with a low signature and time-sensitive characteristics.
2 minute read.

Spike LR II system. (photo credit:RAFAEL ADVANCED DEFENSE SYSTEMS)


Rafael Advanced Defense Systems has unveiled its fifth-generation Spike multipurpose missile with a significant increase in range and lethality.

According to a statement released Monday by the company, the Spike LR II “is an advanced multipurpose missile, weighing only 12.7 kg., and can be launched from any Spike launcher.” It has a range of 5.5 km. when fired from ground launchers and up to 10 km. when fired from a helicopter.



The Spike LR II, which can be fired from vehicles, helicopters, ships and ground launchers, has advanced electro-optic seekers which include capabilities of a smart target tracker with artificial intelligence features.

Designed for use against new modern targets with a low signature and time-sensitive characteristics, the missile also includes new third-party target allocation (networked-enabled) enhancement with an embedded inertial measurement unit assembly, which allows the missiles to be fired to grid target coordinates, including advanced armor and protection systems. It is one of the only missiles in the world with this capability.

The Spike LR II also has two advanced warhead configurations for increased lethality, the company said. The Tandem HEAT warhead configuration ups the armor penetration capability of the missile by over 30% and the new multipurpose blast warhead, which includes controlled fusing (by the gunner) for control of the desired effect.

“The development of the Spike LR II is based on Rafael’s vast experience in the development of a wide variety of missiles over the years, and was largely possible due to Rafael’s close cooperation with the users at the IDF and other militaries around the world,” said Moshe Elazar, executive vice president and head of Rafael’s land and naval systems division.

The Spike LR II missile, which Elazar says addresses the complex challenges of the modern battlefield, will be presented for the first time at the Paris Air Show in June.

Rafael has three missiles in the Spike family, Spike NLOS, Spike ER, Spike MR/LR and Spike SR, and has supplied over 27,000 Spike missiles and systems to over 26 countries, including to the Philippines, Lithuania, Australia and India, where they are used by armies on various naval and land system platforms.

In March an Israel Navy unmanned vessel fired a Spike interceptor missile from a Protector unmanned surface vehicle during a test by Rafael systems. According to the company, the model’s missiles can intercept rocket-propelled grenades and other incoming projectiles.

“This new capability allows pinpoint attack of land or naval targets, enabling safe vessel operation, with no risk to the operating force, from a remote command and control room or from aboard other naval platforms,” read a statement by Rafael.

Thanks for posting the article. Now as I mentioned earlier, third party tracking is added feature in gen5. But its still in development phase and needs to mature.

 

[Chinmoy]

Terrorists in Kashmir, beware! Indian Army will take you down with its 'SAMOSA' missile

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...take-you-down-with-its-samosa-missile-2544991

 

[Kunal Biswas]

So the graffiti which originally said 'MUSA BHAI' in capital letters was modified by adding two new alphabets and tampering with an existing one. A few sprays later, the graffiti screaming MUSA BHAI became an even more screaming SAMOSA BHAI.

As Budgam woke up the next morning, the sense of amusement on the streets was unmistakeable. Many were intrigued by who this SAMOSA BHAI was. And the fun continued for a few days.

===========

Innovative, Indeed !

Terrorists in Kashmir, beware! Indian Army will take you down with its 'SAMOSA' missile

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...take-you-down-with-its-samosa-missile-2544991

 

[Khagesh]

Eagerly awaited.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...take-you-down-with-its-samosa-missile-2544991
From abusing the Indian government, to mocking the Indian Armed Forces, to glorifying terrorists, these graffiti have not just been used as a propaganda tool but also a means to demean India's armed forces.

Obliterating such offensive graffiti had been Indian Army's conventional response to the menace till now. Not anymore. A few young Indian Army officers have now decided to take the battle right up to these walls—one graffiti at a time.

The name of Zakir Musa—a Hizbul Mujahideen terrorist recently believed to be named by the Al- Qaeda as its India chief—was found painted on walls after walls in Budgam district. It was then a young Rashtriya Rifles' Company Commander decided he needed to respond: spray can for spray can and that too, innovatively.

So the graffiti which originally said 'MUSA BHAI' in capital letters was modified by adding two new alphabets and tampering with an existing one. A few sprays later, the graffiti screaming MUSA BHAI became an even more screaming SAMOSA BHAI.

“You will keep hearing of more such innovations in days to come,” the officer from Kashmir said.

RR/IA have been targeting every single new commander of these terrorists.

But I wish the RR/IA would keep this Musa Bhai alive just for the heck of it. Make an example out of him, that is if he is not already dead by now. An example of impotency. Give this as a project to the young guns. They will instinctively know exactly what to do.

Told the story to my young colleague (10 years younger to me) and he is still laughing.

 

[Chinmoy]

So the graffiti which originally said 'MUSA BHAI' in capital letters was modified by adding two new alphabets and tampering with an existing one. A few sprays later, the graffiti screaming MUSA BHAI became an even more screaming SAMOSA BHAI.

As Budgam woke up the next morning, the sense of amusement on the streets was unmistakeable. Many were intrigued by who this SAMOSA BHAI was. And the fun continued for a few days.

===========

Innovative, Indeed !

More fun would have been RR/IA guys enjoying Garam-a-garam Samosa and Chai sitting just in front of the graffiti.........

IA is shedding its colonial era mindset it seems. Its not just gun and bullet which win a war. You have to intimidate the enemy by any means available.

 

[ezsasa]

More fun would have been RR/IA guys enjoying Garam-a-garam Samosa and Chai sitting just in front of the graffiti.........

IA is shedding its colonial era mindset it seems. Its not just gun and bullet which win a war. You have to intimidate the enemy by any means available.

On the contrary IA is still using colonial era tactics. This tactic is still used by British even today.

American tactic is to shoot at sight, making friends and dealing with public in combat zone is very low on priority. They think they can buy loyalty.

British tactic is to devote some resources to PR management and mind games. They cultivate assets on the ground and all that stuff, by spending more time than money.

I think I have posted a speech on this topic in think tank thread.

 

[Chinmoy]

On the contrary IA is still using colonial era tactics. This tactic is still used by British even today.

American tactic is to shoot at sight, making friends and dealing with public in combat zone is very low on priority. They think they can buy loyalty.

British tactic is to devote some resources to PR management and mind games. They cultivate assets on the ground and all that stuff, by spending more time than money.

I think I have posted a speech on this topic in think tank thread.

On the contrary, every army in world does this. Is US army fighting radicals in California or any other state over there?
Even in Afghanistan and Iraq, they are first making friends overground and dealing in public before going on for shoot.
If IA enters POK tomorrow, then too they would carry out same thing as like US is doing right now. But overground support gathering is the most important factor in any kind of war.

 

[ezsasa]

On the contrary, every army in world does this. Is US army fighting radicals in California or any other state over there?
Even in Afghanistan and Iraq, they are first making friends overground and dealing in public before going on for shoot.
If IA enters POK tomorrow, then too they would carry out same thing as like US is doing right now. But overground support gathering is the most important factor in any kind of war.

It's ok to have difference in opinion.

I'll post the video that I am talking about later.