Indian Army: News and Discussion

Sam@Indian

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It's time that Both Indian Army and DRDO needs to accept that both these Organisations are at fault due to various reasons and that that the Arjun MK2 should be only used as a technology demonstrator now and there is an Urgent requirement to design a new MBTs for future applications.

Indian Army ordered the design of the Arjun Tanks in the early 1970's and almost everyone is aware about the fantasy of Indian Army's Leadership of that time with Western Weapon systems including MBTs and hence Arjun MBT was designed as a MBT with 4 Crew Members and a 120mm GUN which is very common in all the Western Tanks.

But the Main problem started when DRDO with it's limited Funds wasn't able to finish the project in the next 10+years and hence Indian Army started inducting T-72 Tanks which were designed on a totally different concept from the Western Tanks like M1Abrams, Leopards etc. as T-72 was designed as a 3 Member Crew with a 125mm GUN.
And the biggest problem that got created is that Indian Army bought these Tanks in Large numbers to fulfill their immediate requirements but No specific Instructions were provided to DRDO to change Arjun MBT's design to make it a 3 Member Crew MBT with a 125mm GUN.

Indian Army had a Chance to do the required design Changes in ARJUN MBT but for unknown reasons these Changes were not done.
Now, In the early 1990's Indian Army ordered Russian T-90's which were just like T-72 MBTs were designed with a 3-Member Crew and a 125mm GUN.
These T-90's were inducted in Indian Army in large numbers just like the T-72's were inducted.
This continous usage of Russian MBT's with a 3-Member Crew and 125MM Cannon had a great affect on both Indian Army and OFB as Indian Army developed it's strategies and training systems on the basis of the Weight class, 3-Crew Member and capabilities of T-90 and T-72 MBT's whereas OFB became well-versed in manufacturing various ammunitions for Russian MBTs or much more potent in making ammunition in the calibure of 125mm.

With such a Huge amount of Manufacturing, training and support system available for MBT's with 3-member Crew and 125mm Cannon it's much more sensible to Utilise ARJUN MK2 as a technology demonstrator and to DESIGN and DEVELOP a new Generation MBT with a 3-Member Crew and a 125 cannon in Weight classes of both T-90 and T-72 MBT's.
These New tanks should be an equivalent to RUSSIA's T-14 Armata MBTs.
India's Georgraphy makes it necessary for Indian Army to Operate Tanks in weight class of T-90 and T-72 MBTs as any MBT in T-90's weight class will be ideal to fight a War on WESTERN Border and a tank in the wieght class of T-72 will be ideal for fighting Tanks battles in EASTERN Border.
The new class of MBT's won't face any kind of ammunition issues as OFB already has a well-establised structure for manufacturing 125mm Ammunition on a Mass scale in any conflict.

It's very clear that Russian MBT's were designed on a 3 crew member design with a much bigger CANNON of 125mm and Western MBT's were designed with a 4 Member Crew and a 120mm Cannon.
This presence of an extra CREW member naturally made it necessary for designers to make Western Tanks like M1Abrams, Leopards, Merkava etc much bigger or I can term it as more spacious and this clearly increased the Weight of the Tank and with further enhancements especially addition of Protection Layers these Western Tanks for sure became very well protected but lost their Maneuvering capabilites or we can term it the Western Tanks lost their flexibilty.

This loss of Flexibilty didn't hampered the performance of Western Tanks in Conventional Wars as the best example is US Invasion of IRAQ but as the Modern Warfare started becoming a Mix of Conventional and Unconventional Systems especially when Modern Wars shifted from Open pastures to Small Roads, Streets and localities of Urban cities then Western TANKS lack of maneuvering capabilities became a big liability for the Western Armed forces.
But under the same scenario the results were very different for Russian Tanks as Russian Tanks failed to make a Mark in Conventional Warfare against Western MBT's and US-IRAQ War is a great example where Western MBT's just crushed Russian MBT's But in the Modern Unconventional Warfare that is being fought is highly develop Urban Areas the RUSSIAN MBT's maneuvering capabilities and the ehancement in Protection systems especially ACTIVE Protection Systems has drastically changed the MBT game and now RUSSIAN MBT's have an Edge in the 21st Century Warfare.
 

Mikesingh

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The Arjun Mk.II currently weighs 68.6 tons — a full six tons over the MK.I,
:doh: They should now be used as static pillboxes! :tongue2: No, seriously! Like this....



Or just remove the turrets and place them like this.....






The Russians have done it. We can too! :biggrin2::biggrin2:
 

Shaitan

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We're in 2017, this will always be a token amount of these. Best start on a lighter platform.
 

Prayash

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Eye on China, India to raise second division for mountain corps
The 15,000-strong division is expected be fully operational in two-three years, said sources, adding that the organisational structure and manpower were in place, and equipment and stores would follow.


WITH AN eye on the massive restructuring of the Chinese military, the Indian army is moving to raise a second infantry division for its mountain strike corps on the northern border, sources told The Indian Express.

The raising of the new, 72 Infantry Division will start at Pathankot within a few months, they said. “Preliminary action to set the ball rolling for the second division has already started. The army was told to complete the raising of the mountain strike corps by financial year 2017-18. It will be completed on schedule. Complete operationalisation will take some more time,” said a senior army official.

The 15,000-strong division is expected be fully operational in two-three years, said sources, adding that the organisational structure and manpower were in place, and equipment and stores would follow.

The other infantry division for the mountain strike corps — 59 Infantry Division — has been raised and will be fully operational this year.

The mountain strike corps, designated as 17 Corps, is meant for the northern border and is headquartered at Panagarh in Bengal. It was approved by the government in 2013 with a proposed strength of 80,000 soldiers at a cost of Rs 64,000 crore to be spent over a seven-year period. However, sources said, there has been a squeeze on release of funds since, raising questions about shortfall in ammunition and equipment for units already raised.

“The shortfall was mainly in ammunition, which has been made up by and large by invoking emergency financial provisions. As far as the artillery, air defence and aviation assets are concerned, we will get them as part of the modernisation plans,” said the official.

Sources said the army is “deeply concerned” about the recent changes in the command and control structure of China’s People Liberation Army, and is exploring ways to counter that threat. But military officials insisted that 17 Corps was not a “China Strike Corps”.

“We are moving fast from a threat-based to a capability-based army. The mountain strike corps is a part of that change and can be used in any mountainous region, which means all the northern borders. It would augment our posture along the borders, stretching from Arunachal Pradesh in the east to Ladakh in the northwest,” said the official.
 

tharun

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Army issued RFI for the gloves for soldiers at high altitudes...............Hope they provide for every soldier.
 

ezsasa

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Army issued RFI for the gloves for soldiers at high altitudes...............Hope they provide for every soldier.
And RFI states that projected annual requirement is about 3 lakhs.

That's a lot.
 

tharun

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And RFI states that projected annual requirement is about 3 lakhs.

That's a lot.
That;s not a lot....because we have 1.25 million strong army and other services working in cold areas.
 

ezsasa

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That;s not a lot....because we have 1.25 million strong army and other services working in cold areas.
Bhai Saab , sorry to say this.. but.. do you even think before you type..

First we have remember RFI mentions these gloves are for high altitude areas and extreme cold conditions.

At any point In time(peace times) if I remember correctly only 30-35% of the forces are in active deployment. Let's say 3 lakhs.

Of these 3 lakhs, let's say mechanised to infantry ratio is 30:70, that would be about 2.1 lakh infantry. Minus administration, support and medical corps.

It you consider that there are atleast 1-2 divisions at high altitude areas at any point of time, and assuming 90 day cycles of battalion/company level deployment at extreme high altitudes. This is thru out the year.

Rest of them may be required for extreme winters for rest of the troops.

Let's assume delta of 80 thousand is for spare and BSF jawans who operate under IA.

I see 3 lakhs number perfectly fine.

In other words you don't need to buy for entire army every thing every year.
 

tharun

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Bhai Saab , sorry to say this.. but.. do you even think before you type..

First we have remember RFI mentions these gloves are for high altitude areas and extreme cold conditions.

At any point In time(peace times) if I remember correctly only 30-35% of the forces are in active deployment. Let's say 3 lakhs.

Of these 3 lakhs, let's say mechanised to infantry ratio is 30:70, that would be about 2.1 lakh infantry. Minus administration, support and medical corps.

It you consider that there are atleast 1-2 divisions at high altitude areas at any point of time, and assuming 90 day cycles of battalion/company level deployment at extreme high altitudes. This is thru out the year.

Rest of them may be required for extreme winters for rest of the troops.

Let's assume delta of 80 thousand is for spare and BSF jawans who operate under IA.

I see 3 lakhs number perfectly fine.

In other words you don't need to buy for entire army every thing every year.
So only 30-35% were actively deployed of whole 1.25 million
 

ezsasa

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So only 30-35% were actively deployed of whole 1.25 million
Yup to the best of my knowledge.

Adding to this, for future discussions...
I hope you have also considered that the whole of 1.25 million do not pick up a gun and go to the border to fight even during war times.

Even in Kargil we roughly used 4-5 divisions in that sector, that would be about 50-60 thousand. Of these max 40 thousand would be involved in direct fight. Rest would be supporting the 40 thousand in logistics, medical etc..
 

Chinmoy

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Wonder what IA is upto now a days in eastern front. Lot of activities now a days.....
 

WolfPack86

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Old Friend Russia hold back Critical Clearance to Manufacture Helicopters in India

The first major hurdle to "Make in India" in defence manufacturing appears to be coming from an old friend, that is, Russia.

In October 2016, India and Russia agreed to jointly manufacture Kamov-226T multi-utility helicopters in India for the three services. The agreement was presided over by Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President of the Russian Federation Valdimir Putin. It was the first major defence venture under the Modi government's "Make in India" programme. But there has been no progress since.

The Kamov-226T is a twin-engine helicopter known for ruggedness and performance. Faced with the need to replace the ageing Cheetah and Chetak helicopters, India planned to manufacture as many as 200 helicopters.

Top defence ministry sources told Huffington Post, India, that the two countries haven't yet decided on the exact price of the helicopters. The price being quoted by Russia is much beyond New Delhi's expectation.

More importantly, Russia isn't very comfortable sharing technology with the Indian private sector. The agreement specified that Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL)— the Indian defence public sector unit — would get Indian private sector entities as partners to manufacture various components for the Kamov-226T helicopter. Not happy with this involvement of the India private sector, Moscow has held back "critical clearances".

"Much of the Russian defence manufacturing is state owned. While India is trying to boost the nascent private defence manufacturing industry by making HAL the main integrator, Russian defence industry isn't very sure about involving sharing technology with the private sector," top defence ministry sources said.

Under this joint defence manufacturing venture, signed on the side-lines of the BRICS summit in Goa last year, India and Russia agreed for complete transfer of technology and joint production of Kamov-226T helicopters in India.

The decision to make helicopters in India follows the Inter-Government Agreement on "Cooperation in the field of Helicopter Engineering" singed between the two countries during Prime Minister Modi's visit to Russia in December 2015. The two sides had agreed to set up a joint venture with the Russian government firm Rostec Corporation holding 49.5% stake and HAL holding 50.5% stake.

India–Russia ties are time-tested, and India considers Russia to be its most trusted strategic partner. However, the ties between the two countries had come under some strain: Kremlin perceived that New Delhi was increasingly depending on the West to source defence equipment.

The Modi government has been trying to re-energise bilateral relations. During the signing of October 2016 agreement, India had assured Russia that defence cooperation and manufacturing would be one the key pillars of Indio–Russia relations. Jointly producing helicopters for the Indian Navy, Indian Air Force and the Army was expected to revitalise ties. Apart from helicopters, India had also decided to source warships among other defence platforms from Russia.

The three services and the Coast Guard put together need about 400 helicopters. While HAL is developing the light-utility helicopters, India decided to source 200 helicopters from Russia to replace the aging fleet of helicopters.

http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=251121
 

OverLoad

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Indian soldiers 'treated like slaves' as complaints grow against Army online

Indian Army soldiers from the Army Services Corps (ASC) Centre and College take part in a training and combat preparedness demonstration in Bangalore MANJUNATH KIRAN/AFP/Getty Images

Dissent within the Indian Army is increasingly being aired out in public via social media, as another soldier made headlines on Tuesday with a Facebook video about the treatment of troops.

In recent months soldiers have come forward to voice a number of complaints, mostly surrounding the behaviour of superior officers and general working conditions.

Jawan Sindhav Jogidas posted a video online in which he claimed that soldiers were being “treated like slaves”, fed substandard fruit and vegetables and beaten for objecting.


"The jawans (soldiers) are given the lowest quality of food which is just enough for survival. Some officers keep jawans as slaves but no one can speak against the officers," Mr Jogidas alleged.

He expressed regrets about speaking out, but said he felt he had no other option.

"I was punished for raising complaints," he said. "Army is the only service where combatants were forced to serve officers.

"I am sure that Army won't accept these complaints. I did not want to speak about the Army in public or social media, but I had no other choice but to raise my complaint in public.”

The Indian Army has rubbished the accusations and claimed an official response would be released soon, India Today reported.

They did however release a list of misdemeanours Mr Jogidas is responsible for, including refusing to clean bed pans in a military hospital and outstaying his leave.

This is the not the first time a soldier in the Indian Army has raised concerns.

A couple of months ago, another soldier, stationed along the border in Jammu and Kashmir, said that troops often have to serve on “empty stomachs”.

Tej Bhahadur Yadav also posted a video on social media, where he accused officers of “illegally selling off” supplies that were intended for soldiers, News 18 reported.

"Governments change, but our situation doesn't change… We only get a paratha (piece of flatbread) and tea as breakfast and this is without any pickle or vegetables.

“…We slog for 11 hours and at times we have to stand throughout the duty hours. For lunch, we get 'dal' (dried, split pulses) which only has 'haldi' (turmeric) and salt, with roti (piece of wholemeal bread). This is the quality of the food we get.” he said.


The Border Security Force responded to the allegations and like the Mr Jogidas case, they claimed Mr Yadav was also a troubled single case.

“Constable Tej Bahadur as an individual has a difficult past. From initial days of his career, he needed regular counselling.

“Different correction mechanics have been applied for the individual's welfare as he was habitual offender of absenteeism without permission, chronic alcoholism, misbehaving and using force with superior officers,” the force said in a statement.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...onditions-jawan-sindhav-jogidas-a7616206.html
 

captscooby81

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When did the bloody British media has so much concern for how the Indian army treats its soldiers . At least these bastards should not speak about Slaves when they ruled India and kept more than 600 million population as slaves for their Majesty Queen and exploited each and every India soldier in WWI and WWI to save their ass from the Germans and the Japanese

Looks like written by ISI lover in UK Shehab Khan :rofl:
 

Srinivas_K

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Pakistanis making fun of Indian Army which is transparent and answerable to the public.

If we dig deep into the Pakistani army then people will know how a punjabi soldier is superior to other regions, How the converted chowdaries, rajputs and others treat their sub ordinates.

Your Military do not even respect civilian leadership leave about public and the soldiers.

Speaking about Britishers, The world knows how these turds used to treat Indians, India people and people of other nationalities.

History is evident how the english barbarians did numerous genocides and how they showed racism towards other people. These guys still have audacity to point fingers at others.



Indian soldiers 'treated like slaves' as complaints grow against Army online

Indian Army soldiers from the Army Services Corps (ASC) Centre and College take part in a training and combat preparedness demonstration in Bangalore MANJUNATH KIRAN/AFP/Getty Images

Dissent within the Indian Army is increasingly being aired out in public via social media, as another soldier made headlines on Tuesday with a Facebook video about the treatment of troops.

In recent months soldiers have come forward to voice a number of complaints, mostly surrounding the behaviour of superior officers and general working conditions.

Jawan Sindhav Jogidas posted a video online in which he claimed that soldiers were being “treated like slaves”, fed substandard fruit and vegetables and beaten for objecting.


"The jawans (soldiers) are given the lowest quality of food which is just enough for survival. Some officers keep jawans as slaves but no one can speak against the officers," Mr Jogidas alleged.

He expressed regrets about speaking out, but said he felt he had no other option.

"I was punished for raising complaints," he said. "Army is the only service where combatants were forced to serve officers.

"I am sure that Army won't accept these complaints. I did not want to speak about the Army in public or social media, but I had no other choice but to raise my complaint in public.”

The Indian Army has rubbished the accusations and claimed an official response would be released soon, India Today reported.

They did however release a list of misdemeanours Mr Jogidas is responsible for, including refusing to clean bed pans in a military hospital and outstaying his leave.

This is the not the first time a soldier in the Indian Army has raised concerns.

A couple of months ago, another soldier, stationed along the border in Jammu and Kashmir, said that troops often have to serve on “empty stomachs”.

Tej Bhahadur Yadav also posted a video on social media, where he accused officers of “illegally selling off” supplies that were intended for soldiers, News 18 reported.

"Governments change, but our situation doesn't change… We only get a paratha (piece of flatbread) and tea as breakfast and this is without any pickle or vegetables.

“…We slog for 11 hours and at times we have to stand throughout the duty hours. For lunch, we get 'dal' (dried, split pulses) which only has 'haldi' (turmeric) and salt, with roti (piece of wholemeal bread). This is the quality of the food we get.” he said.


The Border Security Force responded to the allegations and like the Mr Jogidas case, they claimed Mr Yadav was also a troubled single case.

“Constable Tej Bahadur as an individual has a difficult past. From initial days of his career, he needed regular counselling.

“Different correction mechanics have been applied for the individual's welfare as he was habitual offender of absenteeism without permission, chronic alcoholism, misbehaving and using force with superior officers,” the force said in a statement.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...onditions-jawan-sindhav-jogidas-a7616206.html
 

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