Indian Army MRSAM

[south block]

Being a joint venture between Bharat Dynamics and Rafael Advanced Defence Systems, I wonder why India has given permission for the export of the latest Barak 8 system to Azerbaijan knowing full well their military ties with Pak? These Porkis will get hold of it and reverse engineer the missile and give it some weird name like Tipu Sultan etc! And allow their masters China to do the same!

Something doesn't add up here. Or am I missing something?

Barak 8 being sold to Azerbaijan is completely Israeli system from propulsion to seeker.there is no Indian involvement

 

[Armand2REP]

Barak 8 being sold to Azerbaijan is completely Israeli system from propulsion to seeker.there is no Indian involvement

Which is kind of jacked considering it was a 50/50 JV. If Israel wants to screw India there is plenty of room on the blacklist for their companies to go on.

 

[south block]

Which is kind of jacked considering it was a 50/50 JV. If Israel wants to screw India there is plenty of room on the blacklist for their companies to go on.

50/50 is for Indian system for India where they allow us to install DRDO propulsion on missile so we won't have to import whole missile.
IPR of SAM is still with Israel & they can go on with project without India.

 

[Kshithij]

Which is kind of jacked considering it was a 50/50 JV. If Israel wants to screw India there is plenty of room on the blacklist for their companies to go on.

MRSAM & LRSAM is 50:50 JV. Barak-8 is Israeli. Just like JF17 is pakistani-chinese JV, MRSAM & LRSAM is also JV

 

[Butter Chicken]

Indian components in MRSAM will be only 30%

 

[south block]

MRSAM & LRSAM is 50:50 JV. Barak-8 is Israeli. Just like JF17 is pakistani-chinese JV, MRSAM & LRSAM is also JV

But MRSAM is at least 30% indeginous on the other hand only baaki pilot is indeginous in junk fighter

 

[Armand2REP]

MRSAM & LRSAM is 50:50 JV. Barak-8 is Israeli. Just like JF17 is pakistani-chinese JV, MRSAM & LRSAM is also JV

India has invested 2 billion in co-development of the Barak 8, it is jointly owned IP and any unauthorized use of it by Israel is a violation of the JV. Just as if China sold FC-1 with no Pakistani involvement.

 

[Kshithij]

India has invested 2 billion in co-development of the Barak 8, it is jointly owned IP and any unauthorized use of it by Israel is a violation of the JV. Just as if China sold FC-1 with no Pakistani involvement.

Israel had BARAK-1 and BARAK-2 which was made into BARAK-8 using Indian motor and propulsion. Israel may have kept its own BARAK-2 motor with advanced seekers of BARAK-8 to export it.

But MRSAM is at least 30% indeginous on the other hand only baaki pilot is indeginous in junk fighter

MRSAM and LRSAM has 30% imported content. Everything except seekers and maybe the proximity fuse is Indian. India may already be developing seeker in full swing. Astra seeker is now indigenous, for example.

 

[Kay]

Israel gets 40 % of it's oil from Ajerbaijan in addition to diplomatic support. India balances Israel and Palestine diplomatically. Geopolitics is complicated.
Moral of the story - design and make in India.

 

[Kay]

Sorry - Double post. Please delete.

 

[Armand2REP]

Israel had BARAK-1 and BARAK-2 which was made into BARAK-8 using Indian motor and propulsion. Israel may have kept its own BARAK-2 motor with advanced seekers of BARAK-8 to export it.

$2 billion R&D from India says they don't get to do that without adequate compensation or workshare.

 

[AttilaA]

Barak-8 ER was revealed for the first time during the military parade held in Azerbaijan.

Compare the ER and LR launchers, ER is significantly larger.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Moral of the story - design and make in India.

Catchy but meaningless slogan. Just because a politician says this doesn't
Mean it happens the next day. Barak missile is twenty years of development.
No Indian politician has taken any steps to design or build anything.
India Wiill always be a weapon importer except in certain sections.
India does not import one weapon that is exclusively made for India
(Not even Brahms).

 

[Kshithij]

Barak-8 was developed over 10 years and India has contributed to its motor and launcher. India has also made the seeker now and with the experience in algorithm of detecting target as used in seekers of Brahmos, Akash, NAG and radars of Akash and BMD, India can use the algorithm in BARAK-8 seekers and radars too.

Making generalised statements like this is incorrect as politicians did take development of defence seriously. Indira got help from USSR when USA sided with Pakistan to attack India and then development of weapons happened. This was continued even under Rajiv Gandhi to some extent. But the pace of progress was quite low and if not for USSR giving ToT, things would have been too slow. Narasimha Rao was instrumental in development of ISRO and ballistic missile while also improving radar and naval technology. BJP govt in 1998-2004 started several projects for building indigenous items like Akash, BMD, Naval construction, Brahmos project, indigenisation of Su30, Tejas, Kaveri etc which worked well till FY 2007-8 but then curtailed by UPA once they got their hold on power. Nevertheless, many development and the experience obtained still continued in slow pace, enough to keep experience intact.

Catchy but meaningless slogan. Just because a politician says this doesn't
Mean it happens the next day. Barak missile is twenty years of development.
No Indian politician has taken any steps to design or build anything.
India Wiill always be a weapon importer except in certain sections.
India does not import one weapon that is exclusively made for India
(Not even Brahms).

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Barak-8 was developed over 10 years and India has contributed to its motor and launcher. India has also made the seeker now and with the experience in algorithm of detecting target as used in seekers of Brahmos, Akash, NAG and radars of Akash and BMD, India can use the algorithm in BARAK-8 seekers and radars too.

Making generalised statements like this is incorrect as politicians did take development of defence seriously. Indira got help from USSR when USA sided with Pakistan to attack India and then development of weapons happened. This was continued even under Rajiv Gandhi to some extent. But the pace of progress was quite low and if not for USSR giving ToT, things would have been too slow. Narasimha Rao was instrumental in development of ISRO and ballistic missile while also improving radar and naval technology. BJP govt in 1998-2004 started several projects for building indigenous items like Akash, BMD, Naval construction, Brahmos project, indigenisation of Su30, Tejas, Kaveri etc which worked well till FY 2007-8 but then curtailed by UPA once they got their hold on power. Nevertheless, many development and the experience obtained still continued in slow pace, enough to keep experience intact.

Then it's bad negotiating. I will not say Indian politicians have been good for
Indian weapons development or acquisitions in anyway. They are worst negotiators
Or so interested in kickbacks that the deals never go well. Brahmios still a Russian
missile than we buy Do not have source codes or any export rights. Russians themselves
have not inducted Brahmos. I will not give any imaginary credit to politicians or agencies that
have produced nothing but failures for decades. Barak 8 is Indian collaboration 7 other versions
before were made by Israelis. India does not have semiconductor mass production capability
so I would not expect Anything to be made in numbers or exported any time soon.
India fought 4 wars with Pakistan and 1 with China good that we did something 40 years later.

 

[Kshithij]

Then it's bad negotiating. I will not say Indian politicians have been good for
Indian weapons development or acquisitions in anyway. They are worst negotiators
Or so interested in kickbacks that the deals never go well. Brahmios still a Russian
missile than we buy Do not have source codes or any export rights. Russians themselves
have not inducted Brahmos. I will not give any imaginary credit to politicians or agencies that
have produced nothing but failures for decades. Barak 8 is Indian collaboration 7 other versions
before were made by Israelis. India does not have semiconductor mass production capability
so I would not expect Anything to be made in numbers or exported any time soon.

India makes semicondictors inhouse but only for defence version. Even Russia does not have semiconductor manufacturing by that scale. The civilian technology for semiconductor is not capable of handling high G maneuver and supersonic speeds.

Also, Brahmos has been indigenised upto 85% and remaining engine is also under make. Same with Barak-8. India does not need export rights as India is making it for itself. In case of Indian technology dvelopment, India can always develop an advanced variant which it can export anytime. Codes of Brahmos is fully Indian too. The only problem with export is that Brahmos is a JV and hence decision has to be unanimous.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India makes semicondictors inhouse but only for defence version. Even Russia does not have semiconductor manufacturing by that scale. The civilian technology for semiconductor is not capable of handling high G maneuver and supersonic speeds.

Also, Brahmos has been indigenised upto 85% and remaining engine is also under make. Same with Barak-8. India does not need export rights as India is making it for itself. In case of Indian technology dvelopment, India can always develop an advanced variant which it can export anytime. Codes of Brahmos is fully Indian too. The only problem with export is that Brahmos is a JV and hence decision has to be unanimous.

Barak is not something we could export except with Israel. With Brahmios pillai
Always looks out for his own interests above national interest. I do not think
Russia would want to lose their cruise missile market. There has been a definite
Lack of any strategic planning by Indian government. To be attacked by a much
Smaller country and repeatedly lose territory became a wake up call to Indian
Politicians that their passive naive thinking or lack of had been very detrementall

 

[Kshithij]

Barak is not something we could export except with Israel. With Brahmios pillai
Always looks out for his own interests above national interest. I do not think
Russia would want to lose their cruise missile market. There has been a definite
Lack of any strategic planning by Indian government. To be attacked by a much
Smaller country and repeatedly lose territory became a wake up call to Indian
Politicians that their passive naive thinking or lack of had been very detrementall

There were no Indian politicians till the rise of BJP. There were only foreign agents and that is the result of deep rooted cowardice and lack of ideology amongst true indians but instead living like animals. The rise of BJP changed many things. It is unfortunate that no one thought of a mass movement in 1950s against congress and directly captured power instead of being indifferent.

 

[Hari Sud]

Can somebody provide us a bit more details on Israeli and Indian missile 8 and more specifically Indian participation in it.

Does this participation allows India to make any number of these missiles and sell it to friendly countries?

 

[Rambo101]

any update.