Indian Army general service vehicle

Blackwater

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

I still feel anything on Toyota fortunes chassis modified for army will be better option
 

ezsasa

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

I am envisioning a total of five plates. 500 kilos max extra in total.

This is not armour plating the entire door and metal but inserting plates in specific areas.
 

sgarg

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

Wouldn't it be great if they insert metal plates into the doors and panels to give some resistance to light and medium firing. Something like the basic military hummer where armour plates are detachable from the doors.
I think the purpose of these vehicles is general transport duties. Army should have a separate class of armored light vehicles and mine resistant troop carriers for operating in high threat environments.

The extra weight would require extra strength in chassis, bigger wheels and bigger engine. Better to have a different design and class.
 

ezsasa

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

I think the purpose of these vehicles is general transport duties. Army should have a separate class of armored light vehicles and mine resistant troop carriers for operating in high threat environments.

The extra weight would require extra strength in chassis, bigger wheels and bigger engine. Better to have a different design and class.
Yup point taken.
 

sob

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

This vehicle will be a sitting duck. So far we have been very lucky with IEDs in india, but I shudder to think of one exploding even in a 10 feet radius of this Tin pot.

The engine just does not have the juice for any sort of armour plating.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100









Bullet Proof Maruti Gypsy are in use by Police and Army so does paramilitary forces ..


Wouldn't it be great if they insert metal plates into the doors and panels to give some resistance to light and medium firing. Something like the basic military hummer where armour plates are detachable from the doors.
 

ezsasa

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

Bullet Proof Maruti Gypsy are in use by Police and Army so does paramilitary forces ..
Yup thanks, I guessed that much that armoured gypsy is available. What I was thinking is somewhere in between where it is not fully armoured like in your pics but retain original characteristics along with light armour.

But I take the other members point that instead of fiddling with a utility vehicle might as well plan for a proper military transport utility vehicle.
 

Zebra

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

Jonga is one of the Nissan Patrol, (most likely 1960).

Why can't they go for Nissan Patrol again.

Nissan Patrol Y61 this time.


 
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tarunraju

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

then isn't it better to rely on horses and bullock carts if we are afraid of modern technology.
No correlation between analog and being obsolete. Before field vehicles are inducted, EME should be able to take apart and put together every part of the vehicle. An ECU still can't be trusted.
 

pmaitra

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

This vehicle will be a sitting duck. So far we have been very lucky with IEDs in india, but I shudder to think of one exploding even in a 10 feet radius of this Tin pot.

The engine just does not have the juice for any sort of armour plating.
@sob, a barrel sized IED will punch a hole through the bottom of an Abrams tank.

Nothing in this world is foolproof. Every vehicle has its place. Maruti Gypsy has its place, so does the Jonga. Then, we have the behemoths like KrAZ, ZiL, Scania, and Tatra.

Every single thing I have mentioned here (except perhaps the Abrams) can be a sitting duck.

If you want armour plating, go for the Ural-Mahindra MPV.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

Is it the end of the road for the Gypsy?
Maruti Gypsy's sales to the Indian army may dry up after it fails to meet criteria for the latest contract
Amrit Raj
First Published: Tue, Apr 02 2013. 10 43 PM IST


When it was launched in 1985, the sleek but still rugged lines of the Gypsy made it an instant hit, although that popularity never really translated into massive sales figures.
The numbers and the ubiquity came when law-enforcement agencies around the country and the armed forces began adding the sports utility vehicle (SUV), originally based on the Suzuki Jimny, to their fleets. The more agile, petrol-driven Gypsy was preferred over the slower, diesel-driven vehicles that had until then proliferated within the ranks of the police and the services.
But the sales of the Gypsy to the armed forces may dry up, according to five people familiar with the matter who declined to be identified.
Will this be the end of the road for the vehicle, given that its biggest customer, the Indian Army, wants a sturdier vehicle with more modern features?
When the Indian Army sought bids for the 800kg general service vehicle category, Maruti didn't participate as it doesn't have one that meets the requirements. Maruti's Gypsy sells in the 500kg general service vehicle category.

Rivals such as Tata Motors Ltd, Mahindra and Mahindra Ltd and Nissan Motor Co. have bid for the contract for 30,000 vehicles valued at Rs.3,000 crore, according to the people cited above.
These people said that once an 800kg vehicle is selected, it will start replacing the Gypsy.
Features being sought include airbags, anti-lock braking systems, air-conditioning, power windows, five doors and central locking—specifications absent in the Gypsy, which pretty much still looks the way it did in 1985.
While Mahindra is said to be sending a prototype based on its Scorpio SUV, the Tata Motors's prototype will be based on the Safari platform. Nissan, participating in a defence procurement bid for the first time in India, will send a prototype based on its X-Trail SUV. There is an old Indian Army connection with the Japanese company, however, through the P60 SUV"ƒthat Nissan introduced in the 1960s. It was modified into the Jabalpur Ordnance and Guncarriage Assembly—Jonga for short.
Price bids for the Indian Army vehicle tender will be opened after technical clearance is given to the prototypes. Testing will begin by the end of this month after the companies submit their sample vehicles by 15 April.
"The tender will be awarded to the lowest bidder," said one of the people cited above. "It will be a phase-wise purchase and the army will replace its entire fleet of Gypsys in some years. However, the new general service vehicles will only be a part of the army from 2017 as the process of bidding and placing orders normally takes three-four years."
The army will gradually stop procuring Gypsy SUVs and the vehicle will eventually be phased out, the person said.
Is it the end of the road for the Gypsy? - Livemint

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Wonder what happen ..
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

Mahindra Scorpio, Tata Safari set to crash Maruti Gypsy party in Indian Army
The Indian Army has decided to phase-out Maruti Gypsy from its inventory with Mahindra Scorpio and Tata Safari in the race to replace the vehicle under a project expected to cost the force more than Rs 3,000 crore.

The Indian Army is the biggest customer of the Maruti Gypsy utility vehicles with more than 25,000 such vehicles in service and uses them in all light vehicle operations including counter-terrorist and counter-insurgency operations.

The summer trials of military versions of Mahindra Scorpio and Tata Safari will be held in Jodhpur in Rajasthan next week and the winter trials will be held in Sikkim by the end of this year, defence officials said here.

One of the reasons for the Army's plans to phase out the petrol-run Gypsy with the diesel engine cars is the rising prices of petrol.

The Army has a requirement of around 30,000 new light utility 4X4 cars and has plans to initiate the phase-out of Gypsys by 2017.

The induction of these 30,000 new vehicles would be in a phased manner and the process is expected to be completed by the force in next 15-20 years.

In its tender floated for the procurement, the Army has stated that it wants general service vehicles weighing around 800 kg powered by a diesel engine, which should be Bharat Stage III and IV compliant.
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Militarized TATA Safari storm ..
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

Their are various vehicle category in Army ..

1. GPV
2. LSV
3. MPV

And other, For GPV its between an offroad and a SUV ..

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Indian Paramilitary use Safari in UN mission, Its lot better than those Mahindra 550 ..

Army vehicles should looks like Army vehicle and not some VIP SUV.
 

sgarg

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@Kunal Biswas, is there any plan to increase number of bullet-proof and mine protected vehicles, as the need is high for internal security duties?

Any recent open tenders for these two classes of vehicles?
 
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Zebra

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Re: Maruti Gypsy gets repeat order from Army, 4,100

Army vehicles should looks like Army vehicle and not some VIP SUV.
Sir, the people who gonna sit in side they are not less than any other VIP.

So they deserves it.

On top of it, that vehicle must be rugged, reliable and spacious enough for their job also.
 

Kunal Biswas

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As we know, Most are stuck in Red tape ..

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CAG questions army's purchase of Rakshak vehicles

The new Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) report on the army's purchase of bulletproof vehicles illustrates many of the pitfalls that plague defence procurement. CAG Report No CA 4 of 2008 (Defence Services), which was tabled in parliament on Thursday, examines the MoD's Rs 35.76 crore purchase of 200 Rakshak vehicles in 2005, and 9 armoured Scorpios in 2007, which protect military commanders while they drive around J&K.

The report concludes that both purchases were unnecessarily hurried, saddling the army with underpowered Rakshaks, which perform so sluggishly that they endanger the lives of the soldiers that they are meant to safeguard.

The report observes, "Audit examination disclosed that in both the cases, the procurement process was non-competitive, technical trials were diluted by waiving requirements that compromised the quality of the vehicles."

With the CAG, the army, and MDS itself in agreement that the Rakshak vehicles are underpowered, the obvious question is: what procedures were violated? Business Standard is in possession of the MoD's Request for Proposals (RFP), in which it laid down the performance it wanted from the vehicle. Two years of army trials conclusively established that the Rakshak met those specifications.

Clearly, what failed was not the Rakshak. Instead, as the CAG report points out, the MoD's RFP itself was flawed, asking for a vehicle that would inevitably turn out to be underpowered, once bulletproof armour added to its weight. The RFP number 33(7)/2001-D(GS-IV), issued on 25th July 2001, stipulates that the vendors could not offer a new, more powerful vehicle. The vehicle had to be in service with the military.

The CEO of MDS, Brigadier Khutab Hai, is emphatic that the army was given exactly what it asked for, explaining, "During two years of trials, the Rakshak met every parameter spelt out in the MoD's RFP. If the MoD wanted higher specifications, or a more powerful vehicle, we could easily have provided that. But the RFP bound us to an in-service vehicle."


The RFP is a vital first step in any defence procurement, laying down what the vendors must provide. Thereafter, the winner of the contract is not the best product on offer; according to the current "L-1 tender" system, the cheapest product that meets the GSQR must be bought for the military. In a hypothetical contest between a Maruti priced at 2 lakh rupees and a Mercedes priced at 2.5 lakhs, the Maruti must be bought if it has met the RFP in trials.

Even the army has tacitly acknowledged that the Rakshak RFP was flawed. For the next round of purchases of bulletproof vehicles, the army's Weapons and Equipment Directorate has written to the vendors asking for an upgraded vehicle, with more power, a smoother suspension and a better steering. When asked why it had complained about the 200 Rakshaks already bought, the army told the CAG that they were only "suggestions from users to improve efficiency".

Confused and unclear RFPs have elicited complaints from several vendors. In last year's performance audit on defence procurement, the CAG pointed out that RFPs often demand products that exist nowhere. The CAG highlighted many other cases where the MoD issues piece-meal RFPs, denying itself the economy of scale. An example is the on-going procurement of a family of over 8000 light vehicles. The MoD has issued an RFP for only 228 so far.


Vendors, both domestic and international, from the private and the public sectors, all complain that the MoD remains unequipped for defence procurement, its desks manned by officers who get posted out just as they begin to learn the ropes. A Group of Ministers (GoM) has recommended, in April 2000, creating a dedicated body for defence procurement. Last year the CAG reinforced that, recommending a specialist body of Acquisition Managers who could develop the expertise needed for smooth and judicious defence procurement.
Source : Broadsword: CAG questions army's purchase of Rakshak vehicles

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And whatever steps taken during Gen VK Singh ji`s era are either scrapped or modified, Like When Bikram Singh took over he conveniently change the RFI specs of Armored vehicle for CT to recon for Armored Unit so that their can be a large space for import and bribering under previous Govt rule ..

MPVs are in numbers and more will join ..


@Kunal Biswas, is there any plan to increase number of bullet-proof and mine protected vehicles, as the need is high for internal security duties?

Any recent open tenders for these two classes of vehicles?
 
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AshutoshNSingh

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lt Col Sankal Kumar was killed as his Gypsy was blown up by a terrorist's rocket.
Are the underpowered Gypsys safe and speedy enough to rush an Army QRT towards an ambush zone of high tech terrorists of today???
 

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