Indian Army for better frontline infrastructure

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,270
Likes
19,494
@Ky Loung,

The sentry posts that you see are suitable for international borders. There is very little chance of someone firing an RPG, which of course will completely destroy those structures. At the Line of Control, we use things like the sangar.

Every thing has a place.

Just like you have the Abrams, does not mean the Bradley is useless. Similarly, just like you have the option of sandbagesque fortifications, does not mean the ones posted here are useless.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ky Loung

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
147
Likes
82
It's not a guard post it's a hiding place. It doesn't guard anything because it lack vantage and the ability to fight back. It is useless and made by engineers never serve in the military. RPG or what not, sooner or latter someone will dump a grenades or spray bullets inside the cabin or whatever but first they going kill the people the guards suppose to protect.

A guard/sentry post is just, to protect and alert those the guards are protecting. It's not a hiding place for guards. It have not lights, no warning system, and no way to fight back. It a waste of taxpayer money. These money could have been spend on buying personal body armor for the kids.

This what happen to attackers from a proper defended sentry post. Guards saw them coming a mile way. Kill all the attackers. Not one signal guard got hurt.

LiveLeak.com - failed insurgent attack in iraq
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,133
Likes
23,722
What if the bags are placed in multiple layers??I mean sand and the bags - both are dirt cheap.
Well I have no idea as to how many vertical layers of sandbags would negate an Anti material/ Anti tank weapon.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,598
It depends on what area and what kind of threads one is up against,

1. Sand / Concrete bags are mostly proven useless against 7.62 Nato FMJ or 7.62X54r FMJ ..
2. Nor such fortification are reliable during various weathers and changes ..
3. A pillbox, Or strong hold even bunker made out of Sand bag is hard to maintain, Once constructed one cannot replace the bottom bag without removing the shed and other bags,
4. Sand bag nor have ability to sustain repeated shots of mentioned caliber, Such fortification are good only if the need is short and temporarily or short of budget ..

In following It is based on my experience on field ..

==========
==========
==========
==========





IDF watch tower
IDF is fighting counter- terrorism just as us ..

Such Infrastructure are made only at request of Military ..

Death trap and pretty useless for what it suppose to do.
If you look at images of Americans troops they use sandbags because it easy to transport and easy to make different type of protective structures. Sandbags are really really good. The people that design the guard posted never serve in the military. It a bunch of stupid engineers thinking their design is the best but in reality they are building death traps..
===============
===============

Sir, The stopping power is not same as sand bags, Army fortification is to save soldiers, If that is not needed why not deploy CRPF ?

If Army has to be deployed, Given the nature of the area and its thread, then is it not our priority to make sure the safety and protection of our men under our command first ?

Insurgent are equipped with RL, Including both western and Eastern origin, Rifle granades and even in-direct heavy caliber weapons for some time now ..

If the sentry posts have the same stopping power as the standard sandbag reinforced sentry posts, then the innocuous ones that have been displayed above should be used wherein 'a country under siege' mentality is not showcased, leading to a prolonged fear psychosis.

The only issue is that the terrorists are getting sophisticated and if they use anti-materiel rifles. then the problem takes a new dimension.

It is the crisis of one producing something to halt the adversary. It works for sometime and then the adversary produces something to beat what is in place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kay

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,133
Likes
23,722
@Kunal Biswas,

I was answering on Anti Materiel Rifle and A tank wpns.

I am not aware if sandbags in vertical layers have the stopping power.

Indeed one has to save our soldiers, but then what is the last word to prevent the weapons that are being used and could be used in the future?

Nothing is perfect, since as I said, you bring something that can stop and then the adversary finds something that is effective to defeat it.

So?

ECM was developed. It was made redundant and so ECCM was designed. That too can be overcomed or so I am told. So, they made Stealth fighters. And now there are ways to defeat that also.

It is cyclic and nothing is perfect.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,598
Sir, that is indeed, My bad, i miss understood your point ..

[MENTION=4163]Nothing is perfect, since as I said, you bring something that can stop and then the adversary finds something that is effective to defeat it..
 

Ky Loung

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
147
Likes
82
@Ray
It's not vertical layers it horizontal layers. The more horizontal sandbeg depth the more protection.

----

Whatever the case it a bad sentry post. One could drive a truck full of Pak Terrorists inside the base, kill the kids in their sleep, and drive out of the base without the sentry post guard knowing what's going on. It a really bad design. The people that build the thing have no idea what they are doing.



These type of pictures (above) show outside observers India military industrial complex is made up of engineers without military experience. These type of designs can't be taken seriously. The money is better spend on buying body armors for the kids in hot zones.

Unlike 40 years ago, US military industrial complex are now made up mostly of veterans creating equipment for veterans. The US military industrial complex have always been privatize. Almost everything is privatized. Even if the military own something it is contracted to a private company to operate. For example Lake City Ammo Plant own by the US Military. The only US ammo plant own by the government is contracted to a private company to run it. Privatize military industrial complex is what India should be aiming at.

A French Soldier view of the US military. It's a good read.

A French Soldier's View of US Soldiers in Afghanistan - Warrior Lodge

In regard to guard post. Wooden guard post probably have sandbags for protection.

And they are impressive warriors! We have not come across bad ones, as strange at it may seem to you when you know how critical French people can be. Even if some of them are a bit on the heavy side, all of them provide us everyday with lessons in infantry know-how. Beyond the wearing of a combat kit that never seem to discomfort them (helmet strap, helmet, combat goggles, rifles etc.) the long hours of watch at the outpost never seem to annoy them in the slightest. On the one square meter wooden tower above the perimeter wall they stand the five consecutive hours in full battle rattle and night vision goggles on top, their sight unmoving in the directions of likely danger. No distractions, no pauses, they are like statues nights and days. At night, all movements are performed in the dark - only a handful of subdued red lights indicate the occasional presence of a soldier on the move. Same with the vehicles whose lights are covered - everything happens in pitch dark even filling the fuel tanks with the Japy pump.Here we discover America as it is often depicted: their values are taken to their paroxysm, often amplified by promiscuity and the loneliness of this outpost in the middle of that Afghan valley.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,133
Likes
23,722
@Ray
It's not vertical layers it horizontal layers. The more horizontal sandbeg depth the more protection.

----

Whatever the case it a bad sentry post. One could drive a truck full of Pak Terrorists inside the base, kill the kids in their sleep, and drive out of the base without the sentry post guard knowing what's going on. It a really bad design. The people that build the thing have no idea what they are doing.



These type of pictures (above) show outside observers India military industrial complex is made up of engineers without military experience. These type of designs can't be taken seriously. The money is better spend on buying body armors for the kids in hot zones.

Unlike 40 years ago, US military industrial complex are now made up mostly of veterans creating equipment for veterans. The US military industrial complex have always been privatize. Almost everything is privatized. Even if the military own something it is contracted to a private company to operate. For example Lake City Ammo Plant own by the US Military. The only US ammo plant own by the government is contracted to a private company to run it. Privatize military industrial complex is what India should be aiming at.

A French Soldier view of the US military. It's a good read.

A French Soldier's View of US Soldiers in Afghanistan - Warrior Lodge

In regard to guard post. Wooden guard post probably have sandbags for protection.
I have not understood your point.

What vertical?

What kids?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,598
Example Of Small Commercial Bunker Can be Converted For Surveillance and Communication and Guards Duties In Isolated Parts >>

CAT25 Product Brochure | Underground Shelters

CAT-25 size underground bunker can keep a small Squad for a long time with all supplies, The observation tower / Bunker on surface can be armed with RCWS and port holes so does other surveillance System..

This small Bunker System can be made on forwards isolated posts, Similar post can make a Chain giving the Area 100% surveillance all the time, This will also reduce length and risky Patrol in Harsh terrains under enemy observation..

L&T make these in India ..

Isn't there anything about bunkers? We need to secure those first.
 
Last edited:

roma

NRI in Europe
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,577
Likes
2,489
Country flag
hmmmmm ...please use these and other similar
better still, give me the authority to use them







in kashmir


and i will solve the problem once and for all !
 
Last edited:

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,598
Level 3, plates that regular carry are heavy nearly 12 kg each ..

What standards do India follow? Also, do we have our own standards for bullet proof vests?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kay

Blood+

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
457
Likes
182
Country flag
Level 3, plates that regular carry are heavy nearly 12 kg each ..
But I heard it was like 6+6 kg,as in 6 kg for the front plate and 6 for the black,which makes it total 12 kg for hard armor plating + ~5 kg additional weight if NIJ level IIIA soft armor materials are used.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kay

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,598
I don`t remember there are any trauma absorbing material, The plates are really heavy though ..

Its possiable that now days they are getting better material ..

But I heard it was like 6+6 kg,as in 6 kg for the front plate and 6 for the black,which makes it total 12 kg for hard armor plating + ~5 kg additional weight if NIJ level IIIA soft armor materials are used.
 

Blood+

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
457
Likes
182
Country flag
I don`t remember there are any trauma absorbing material,.
That is why I said 'if'.

The plates are really heavy though ..
Well they have to be heavy,after all these are Level III armor steel plates,but they also come with the big advantage of great durability,that they can repel a massive number of hits from regular FMJ rifle ammunition and still wouldn't fall apart.So the weight is worth it.On the other hand,the SAPI plates are significantly lighter,but they can stop only so many rounds!!They are extremely fragile and shatters when hit,which means after taking the first few hits,their protection value degrades exponentially,leaving the wearer vulnerable to follow up shots.


Its possiable that now days they are getting better material ..
Like I said,I heard it from someone.Now he could have been wrong or I might have have got it wrong.But 12 kg for a single plate does seem a bit too much given the dimensions of those plates.
 

sabari

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
303
Likes
85
Its better than never, Life get tougher if such measure are not taken, Their are mules and other transportation for such task ..

Mr. Kunal sir there is easy way to use the local material to our advantage first in this image we see snow so it mean temperature is below 0 degree .transport plastic mould fill it with paddy huss up to 14 percent of its volume. use a heating system to heat snow to water pore the water in mould the surrounding temperature make the water and huss mister solid .this complex will be much stronger than concrete bunkers .but this is only suitable for place like place temperature wilbe below 0 degree Celsius. And it cost less than concrete bunker. This idea was ones thoughted for air craft carreyer construction . there will be some limitations but still the its good to use some thing were there is northing .to know more search for Habakkuk project in google
 
Last edited:

Global Defence

Articles

Top