Indian Army BMP 2 Infantry Fighting Vehicle Sarath

Bleh

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When I saw the condition of these BMPs in recent ongoing war b/w Armenia and Azharbhai, I was shocked. They are such easy targets. Once hit, people inside become charcoal in no time. Why we still operate them? Why have we not moved?
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Crews of our T-90s & BMP-2 will swiftly meet the exact same fate soon after any conflict starts.
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Army peacekeepers in DR CONGO OFB MEDAK made Armoured Ambulance Tracked Vehicle (AATV) Ordered placed for 288 such vehicles & 162 already delivered as per September 2020 reports
 

ArgonPrime

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When I saw the condition of these BMPs in recent ongoing war b/w Armenia and Azharbhai, I was shocked. They are such easy targets. Once hit, people inside become charcoal in no time. Why we still operate them? Why have we not moved?
While I fully agree with you that these BMPs were needed to be replaced like 10 years ago, I don't think any other IFV/APC would fare any better if it takes a direct hit from a heavy ATGM or dedicated anti-tank rockets like Panzerfaust 3 or RPG 29 Vampir, etc. Do keep in mind that even shoulder-fired ATGMs/ rockets now come fitted with warheads that have a DOP of 800 mm+ of RHA equivalent. Do you really think any IFV/APC could save you from such a weapon??
The only way to survive such a threat right now is to equip your AFVs with an effective APS system and then hope it works as intended.
 

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Crews of our T-90s & BMP-2 will swiftly meet the exact same fate soon after any conflict starts.
Yeah, they better be prepared for a lot of 'beef roast' memes, unfortunately. But in all fairness, I don't believe any other IFVs would have fared any better than those BMP-2s under the given circumstances unless equipped with APS. But then again, one could, in theory, install such systems on a BMP-2 as well.
 

Bleh

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But in all fairness, I don't believe any other IFVs would have fared any better than those BMP-2s under the given circumstances unless equipped with APS.
But still BMP-2 are the lowest of the low compared to others...

Protection against 57mm at front & 30mm helo auto-cannons on roof, with some slat/skirts at sides isn't too much to ask for surely?
With some floating tubes it'll still be amphibious too.
 

ArgonPrime

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But still BMP-2 are the lowest of the low compared to others...
Of course!! Nobody can deny that.
Protection against 57mm at front & 30mm helo auto-cannons on roof, with some slat/skirts at sides isn't too much to ask for surely?
57mm over the frontal arc, hmmmm. Is there any IFVs presently in service anywhere with that level of protection??
With some floating tubes it'll still be amphibious too.
I guess they should build two separate versions. You can either get an amphibious vehicle or a well-protected one, you can't get both at the same time.
 

Bleh

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57mm over the frontal arc, hmmmm. Is there any IFVs presently in service anywhere with that level of protection??

I guess they should build two separate versions. You can either get an amphibious vehicle or a well-protected one, you can't get both at the same time.
Some composite sandwiches can stop 57mm without to much weight increment. Design has been moving on to kevlar airbags now... As long as it remains below 25t it can safely float.

maneuver_k21_slide_img_03.jpg
 

Longewala

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But still BMP-2 are the lowest of the low compared to others...

Protection against 57mm at front & 30mm helo auto-cannons on roof, with some slat/skirts at sides isn't too much to ask for surely?
With some floating tubes it'll still be amphibious too.
Both expensive 25 tonne fancy IFVs and obsolete are equally toast if targeted accurately
BMP-2 upgraded with thermals and ATGMs have the same firepower
BMP-2s are amphibious
We can order 3000 BMPs for the same cost as day 750-1000 modern IFVs and mechanise 50-60 battalions of infantry

Under a scenario where Napaks use M-113s and China front is mountain warfare

Isn't it better to order those 60 battalions of BMPs and convert most of our plains infantry into mobile mechanised units? Rather than a small number of gold plated IFVs which in practical terms will fare no better undrr intense attack.
 

Bleh

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Both expensive 25 tonne fancy IFVs and obsolete are equally toast if targeted accurately...

...Rather than a small number of gold plated IFVs which in practical terms will fare no better undrr intense attack.
Same logic goes for literally any armoured vehicle. Why not instead of "expensive & fancy" modern FICV, get just 7.62-protected APCs that we can even more cheaply buy 10,000 of?

Point is, present that tech allows a modern IFV to protect its passenger from expected autocannons/HMG fire & IED without losing amphibious capabilities... And some composites inserts & 2 kevlar inflates won't add that much cost that you'll have to call it "gold plated".
 
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Longewala

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Same logic goes for literally any armoured vehicle. Why not instead of "expensive & fancy" modern FICV, get just 7.62-protected APCs that we can even more cheaply buy 10,000 of?

Point is, present that tech allows a modern IFV to protect its passenger from expected autocannons/HMG fire & IED without losing amphibious capabilities... And some composites inserts & 2 kevlar inflates won't add that much cost that you'll have to call it "gold plated".
Well I would imagine we can design an updated BMP with some more protection against 30mm, maybe replace the turret with an unmanned to save weight etc though would be equally vulnerable to plunging fire and ATGMs.
That wouldn't cost much - but a full fledged modern ifv, a Draco, Ascod, Puma equivalent would, as much as a t-90 but not much more protection.

I would argue it's not the sane for other armoured vehicles, especially MBTs. That extra weight and spend on a M1 class vehicle would give a vehicle that can take hits from most Anti tank munitions, far more so than a t-90 class.
 

Bleh

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Well I would imagine we can design an updated BMP with some more protection against 30mm, maybe replace the turret with an unmanned to save weight etc.
That's exactly why I like the FICV while most here have been whining out doesn't look cool enough... with add-on modular armour.

A carry-forward of the BMP design with significant armour & mobility increment, back ramp, possibly unmanned turret later on.
 
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ArgonPrime

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That's exactly why I like the FICV while most here have been whining out doesn't look cool enough... with add-on modular armour.

A carry-forward of the BMP design with significant armour & mobility increment, back ramp, possibly unmanned turret later on.
I wonder how a heavy APC based on a modified Arjun hull would work. We could add an unmanned turret with a 40mm autocannon, Machne guns, and twin ATGM launchers.
 

Bleh

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I wonder how a heavy APC based on a modified Arjun hull would work. We could add an unmanned turret with a 40mm autocannon, Machne guns, and twin ATGM launchers.
IA not interested in that sort. Once tried with T-55... T-72 chassis modified APC also exist.
 

ArgonPrime

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IA not interested in that sort. Once tried with T-55... T-72 chassis modified APC also exist.
No wonder they weren't interested. Who in their right mind would be if such is your level of design optimization?? That thing was abysmal. And besides, the IA top brass ain't exactly among the more sensible ones when it comes to ensuring the safety of their personnel.
 

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