Indian Army Aviation Wing

Screambowl

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Our airforce is becoming a joke among other services I believe.

IAF has been putting objections on many projects and acquisition disregard the pilots have suffered more flying the Mig21bis, due to engine failure and other reasons.

I think, army is correct, to reduce the action/reaction time during an operation they need the helis. More over if army had the helis during Kargil they could have reduced their causalities. IAF was deployed very late.
So these war of tug b/w the services is not healthy.
 

tharun

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I agree with the army.They need their own airforce,why always asking IAF for help.
Look at US army they had their own attack helicopters,never rely on airforce.
Even the troop carried by chinooks and black hacks belongs to army.
 
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lcafanboy

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I think its high time all the attack helicopters should be transferred to Indian Army as helis are used on borders which is IA Domain and are not used for deep penetration which is clearly IAF Domain. This will also reduce the reaction time as it will cut of bureaucracy involved between 2 forces. IAF should only focus on Fighters and deep penetration and tactical bombing needs of IA.

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sthf

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While IA has every right to work towards an organic air support capability, Apache won't be able to fulfill that role in the mid to long term.

The bill of equiping all 14 corps with a squadron each will run to billions. Either HAL comes up with a variant of LCH which trades service altitude for better protection or a medium attack helicopter based on IMRH.
 

mavles ihctep

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Did our air defence systems and fighter jets fully network centric?We hav multiple air defence and fighter jets?All these systems r fully capable of differentiate friend and foe aircrafts
 

scatterStorm

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IMHO, CAS ops require tactical air assets to be available in tandem to ground ops, which requires for any personnel to be familiar with groundOps. I believe that army should be given authority to purchase and maintain at-least two squadron worth of Apache Block 3s on both fronts, western and north-eastern fronts.

Among it's arsenal, it should have not just Apaches but HAL Rudra and LCH too rather than IAF having it.

On the North eastern front,
If chinkies try to move it's armored columns quickly, it would be better to have our boys some CASs, even two apaches can bring havoc to ground, let alone entire squadron of Longbows using it's weapon package to slow down the mechanized column to pierce the defense.

When requirement of service ceiling is high, deploy some HAL Rudra or LCH.

On the western front, Aah so many applications!

It will prove to be the best asset army has ever purchased, unless IAF cry babies poop all over again.

  1. In J&K, militants can be picked up from anywhere, they cannot hide, there thermal signatures will be all over the displays of a longbow, all it would need is to fire those 20mm turret. Concrete will pulverize like ash.
  2. Our boys don't have to lay out there bodies in open to protect civilians, because a threat from above is alone itself a psyOps in militants mind.
  3. Providing unprecedented air cover for groundOps.
  4. For covert missions, they can be sent for extraction of our special forces in POK region or provide "hot" extraction with those good engines.
  5. Best counter to multi-spectrum insurgencies, especially the hybrid warfare tactics by ISI trained rats.
  6. All weather reconnaissance.
  7. If ISI even try to equip them with portable manpods, highly unlikely ... but if they do, Longbows are equipped to counter it effectively.
  8. Scrambling them will requires less time in the valley.
  9. Army understand it's doctrine much better than IAF, thus will utilize these assets at full potential if and when required.

Bottom line is, army should be given some form of CAS assets, it will prove very effective. Future wars with pak will only see our mechanized columns pulverizing there blockades with CAS on active role to sweep the path.


What's in for the IAF?

I believe, IAF should remain to provide air superiority over long range and mostly short skirmishes or full blown war. But CAS is something which requires more active role in "close proximity" and good understanding of how groundOps are done, which only army knows.

IAF will also be relived that they don't have to shift focus to groundOps for CAS and can focus on maintaining air-superiority.

Where IAF should play it's role is to train the army aviation corps guys with some basic air tactics for heli roles. Like navigation, using the onboard avionics and evading RPGs or worst ... manpods, paving the way for mechanized columns and infantry.


When War is nigh:

That doesn't mean they won't be used for all the three military services. A joint command could use it's potential to exercise these assets for every role it might be useful for.
 

scatterStorm

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Did our air defence systems and fighter jets fully network centric?We hav multiple air defence and fighter jets?All these systems r fully capable of differentiate friend and foe aircrafts
What do you mean fully? As if a joint command that has knowledge of every activity in all theaters, "land, air and sea" ... Nope we aren't even close.

As for IFF, I think it ain't a problem, considering most equipment are tailored for our use.
 

smestarz

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Attack Helis and some transport should be handed over to Indian Army aviation. IAF maintains hold in fighter, interceptors, Deep strike planes etc, but CAS should be part of Army aviation too

I think its high time all the attack helicopters should be transferred to Indian Army as helis are used on borders which is IA Domain and are not used for deep penetration which is clearly IAF Domain. This will also reduce the reaction time as it will cut of bureaucracy involved between 2 forces. IAF should only focus on Fighters and deep penetration and tactical bombing needs of IA.

@IndianHawk @Willy2 @roma @Krusty @Defcon 1 @Ghanteshwar @raheel besharam @raja696 @Amr@AnkitPurohit @Akshay_Fenix @aditya10r @airtel @aditya10r @ancientIndian @Bahamut @Berkut @Bornubus@Bengal_Tiger @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @HariSud @hit&run @hardip @indiandefencefan @IndianHawk@JayPatel @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @Mikesingh @NavneetKundu @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra@PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @smestarz @SakalGhareluUstad @Srinivas_K @ShashankSharma @Superdefender@Screambowl @TacticalFrog
 

SanjeevM

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I believe we need better coordination between IA, IAF and IN. Seems like each arm is acting like an independent body. There should be regular exchange of men between IA and IAF. Army commanders should spend some time with IAF teams understanding their work culture and similarly IAF commanders should spend time with IA units and understand the pressure on the ground.

To me it seems like different departments of the company HR, finance, marketing etc working to achieve their independent goals without and eye on the overall goals of the company as a whole.

I am in favour of attack helicopters made by HAL to be permanently stationed with IA. There should not be competition between IA and IAF. Just because my neighbor got a new car, I should also buy a new car.
 

kenyannoobie

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Basically the IA is looking for an aircav,but not an airmobile,which is mainly an chopper borne air assault unit-an own aviation wing tasked with CAS and with own assets for said task namely attack and necessary transport choppers,maybe even fixed wings.
However a squadron per strike corp is wayyyyy below what would be needed. Our 50 ACB had 35 MD 500s when set up in the early 80s with an ex KAF commander.
 

Cutting Edge 2

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I believe we need better coordination between IA, IAF and IN. Seems like each arm is acting like an independent body. There should be regular exchange of men between IA and IAF. Army commanders should spend some time with IAF teams understanding their work culture and similarly IAF commanders should spend time with IA units and understand the pressure on the ground.

To me it seems like different departments of the company HR, finance, marketing etc working to achieve their independent goals without and eye on the overall goals of the company as a whole.

I am in favour of attack helicopters made by HAL to be permanently stationed with IA. There should not be competition between IA and IAF. Just because my neighbor got a new car, I should also buy a new car.
This is not about competition but common sense. Helicopters, especially attack hellis are more effective with army than air force. Helis provide cover to ground forces. they act as quick transport and evacuation platform. Not to mention they are extremely useful during special ops. Having heli under army control will reduce response time and reduce risk of any communication issues.

This is basic stuff. IA's demands are absolutely reasonable. Blame IAF who is dragging their feet just to maintain status quo.

All major modern nations have their helis with army. Unfortunately we are still stuck in cold war era USSR mindset.
 

scatterStorm

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This is not about competition but common sense. Helicopters, especially attack hellis are more effective with army than air force. Helis provide cover to ground forces. they act as quick transport and evacuation platform. Not to mention they are extremely useful during special ops. Having heli under army control will reduce response time and reduce risk of any communication issues.

This is basic stuff. IA's demands are absolutely reasonable. Blame IAF who is dragging their feet just to maintain status quo.

All major modern nations have their helis with army. Unfortunately we are still stuck in cold war era USSR mindset.
They believe if it's an asset that utilises one dimension of military spectrum ... "air" than we don't give a crap, we will have it. Ghochuo ko batao ki jab immediate requirement hogi to Kya bar bar aogey.

It's better to have something nearby, can be scrambled in minutes and know the airspace, the flashpoint areas and most importantly knows how to do CAS ... that role is only for AAC guys.
 

Cutting Edge 2

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They believe if it's an asset that utilises one dimension of military spectrum ... "air" than we don't give a crap, we will have it. Ghochuo ko batao ki jab immediate requirement hogi to Kya bar bar aogey.

It's better to have something nearby, can be scrambled in minutes and know the airspace, the flashpoint areas and most importantly knows how to do CAS ... that role is only for AAC guys.
The hilarious part is IAF has been most non cooperative with their assets which FORCED IA to raised AAC. Now IAF is lobbying against AAC, calling it duplication. There is one way to avoid duplication transfer all your rotary assets. Will they do it? of course not, even mare suggestion of transfer is blasphemous for control freaks at IAF.
 

Kunal Biswas

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IAF is even trying to snatch AAD from Army control ....

Lot many people don`t know about this ..
 

Neexis

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Anybody has any pics of door mounted machine guns on Dhruvs and Mi17s? Which guns are used in such roles by the IA and IAF?
 

acetophenol

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Anybody has any pics of door mounted machine guns on Dhruvs and Mi17s? Which guns are used in such roles by the IA and IAF?
I haven't come across any pics of Dhruvs or Mi-17 with door mounted guns. I do not they are not used so, as the doors arent wide enough,unlike in Blackhawks or Hueys. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though :)

If I am not wrong, atleast some Mi 17s have firing ports in them, through which they can shoot at targets,rather than door mounted guns.

I've came across HAL Cheetah & Chetaks with such guns (will post pics later) and for them OFB made 7.62mm MMG is used .

Sent from my HTC One X9 dual sim using Tapatalk
 

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