Indian Army Aviation Wing

[SATISH]

It also has an all metal body, it is durable, It is cheap and is slow flying. These are its advantages...or stick with the Deepak...an armoured one.

 

[VayuSena1]

I would beg to differ from you. As you say, we are not "loggerheads" with the Army on ego-based issues when it comes to national security. The air force is meant for a completely different platform and therefore it is understandable that the Army should have a separate unit of not fixed but rotary wing aircraft. This is how Russian, Israeli and American armies perform around the world; gunships are the order of the day in army aviation first and then in air forces. This is where I must say our leaders fail to understand the different battlefield requirements of air force and army.

I am not saying that we should not have gunships at all. I just feel that it would be prudent if the Army has its own squadron of light and medium gunships. The coming Dhruv LCH should be an ideal platform to help the Army take its baby steps in recruiting an air attack squadron instead of constantly approaching the air force for every small operation they undertake. Not because it is some sort of disturbance to us but rather the fact that conductin the required operation gets delayed, ground troops suffer heavy casualties and there is combat inefficiency seen in the overall structure of ground operations doctrine.

In my opinion, the MoD should clear the Army to acquire 4-6 squadrons of their own dedicated aerial attack fleet. My choice of equipping them would be 3 squads of LCH Dhruvs, 2 squadrons of Mi-28N Night Hunter/Mi-35 and 1-2 squadrons of Eurocopter Tiger, if at all the government plans on procuring the latter two models of gunships.

It would enable the Army to not just increase combat efficiency when undertaking risky operations, but also give them an understanding of aerial warfare without excessively depending on us. Although, it is good that synergized operations are now being conducted between all three branches of armed forces. it is a little too late since many of other upcoming world powers and existing powers such as China, France, Germany and Russia had started this joint warfare doctrine almost 2 decades back.

 

[Robin Bingo]

Sorry for going off topic guys..but recently i met a Colonel from the Army Aviation Wing and we were chatting about this very topic...during our conversation he said that there is "no scope for promotion" for officers from the Army Aviation Wing when compared to other branches of the army..and thatswhy a lot of officers are leaving the Army...i want to know from the army officers here:-

1.how true is this?
2.why is it so?
3.and if we need to expand the Army Aviation Wing...what steps need to be taken to take care of the promotions of the officers from the Army Aviation Wing?

 

[Ray]

Army Aviation officers come from various arms.

They have the option to return to their parent arm and thus promotions are always there.

Flying is fun compared to climbing hills and ruining knees. Plus, it gives the option that once they leave they can join some commercial service. That is why they don't want to lose touch with flying.

Once superseded, there is a good chance of getting released.

Most of the helicopters being flown around in the civil are by Aviation chaps.

Capt Gopinath, the Air Deccan chap and the father of the low budget airlines, is one such person who is from the helicopter lot!

 

[Auberon]

Sorry for going off topic guys..but recently i met a Colonel from the Army Aviation Wing and we were chatting about this very topic...during our conversation he said that there is "no scope for promotion" for officers from the Army Aviation Wing when compared to other branches of the army..and thatswhy a lot of officers are leaving the Army...i want to know from the army officers here:-

1.how true is this?
2.why is it so?
3.and if we need to expand the Army Aviation Wing...what steps need to be taken to take care of the promotions of the officers from the Army Aviation Wing?

Yes, compared to other branches the scope for promotion in Aviation is less, there are less positions available at command level due to the limited size of the corps.

There is already a shortage of pilots, getting into civvies is becoming exceedingly difficult for aviation personnel now and most of the applications for being released are being in fact, rejected.

 

[Antimony]

I would beg to differ from you. As you say, we are not "loggerheads" with the Army on ego-based issues when it comes to national security. The air force is meant for a completely different platform and therefore it is understandable that the Army should have a separate unit of not fixed but rotary wing aircraft. This is how Russian, Israeli and American armies perform around the world; gunships are the order of the day in army aviation first and then in air forces. This is where I must say our leaders fail to understand the different battlefield requirements of air force and army.

Vayu,

A couple of questions for you

1. Would rotary wing craft operated by the IA be useful at higher altitudes? A paper was published some time back that said that Mi-25 helis were unable to fly at higher altitudes during the Kargil war, and the M-17s converted to an attack role faced SAM fire and were discontinued. Would the Dhruv be better? Media reports are conflicting on this
2. Do our IA forces train with embedded IAF operatives, like the NATO forces do?

 

[hit&run]

Ray sir,
Can you please help us with word 'Unified command'. i think that will help the cause of this thread as well.
Regards

 

[AJSINGH]

well ofcourse Amry shoud have its own aviation wing because its the reaction time is faster...plus every army has its own aviation wing ....the best helicopter would be Mi 35 Hind( ground attack because it can carry both troops and provide grund support nothing like that exsist in NATO weaponry ) and Mi 17 for airlift and for dedicated ground support ..mix of KA 52 and Appache ...although the later being more expensive ....around 200 KA 50 and another 150 appache ...would do the trick...plus for heavy lift Mi 26 would do ....and for recon purpose advance version of Dhruv will be good

 

[WaleedGilani]

i think yes....because that way Army wont have to call for Air support when needed...

 

[AJSINGH]

very much required by IA its own air wing .i would also say that IA sould get A-10 thunderbolt not in much numbers but like 50 of them.Best close support aircraft ever.Close air support is the job of IA and not of IAF, IAF is to strike deep within enemy territory and suppresion of air defense .IA job is to provide close support to its soilders on the ground

 

[ahmedsid]

We do have planes for close air support with the IAF right? Maybe some should be transferred to the army and a new sqd raised. A10s are too good, but I would prefer a Russian or European alternative, provided they have it. At 12 Million per piece it should be worth it!

 

[F-14]

that will be to much for the IAF to Digest as the AF considers that Fixed wing avation is its domain. but the IA can operate attack helicopters and other rotary assests or we could go for Support Modular Brigades

Aviation brigades will be multi-functional, offering a combination of attack helicopters (Apache), reconnaissance helicopters (Kiowa), medium-lift helicopters (Blackhawks), heavy-lift helicopters (Chinooks), and MEDEVAC capability. Aviation will not be organic to combat brigades. It will continue to reside at the division-level due to resource constraints.

Heavy divisions (of which there are six) will have 48 Apaches, 38 Blackhawks, 12 Chinooks, and 12 Medevac helicopters in their brigade. These will be divided into two aviation attack battalions, an assault lift battalion, a general aviation support battalion. An aviation support battalion will help with logistics. Light divisions will have aviation brigades with 60 armed reconnaissance helicopters and no Apaches, with the remaining structure the same. The remaining divisions will have aviation brigades with 30 armed reconnaissance helicopters and 24 Apaches, with the remaining structure the same. The helicopters to fill out these large, combined-arms division-level aviation brigades comes from aviation units that used to reside at the corps-level.

Transformation of the United States Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Soham]

very much required by IA its own air wing .i would also say that IA sould get A-10 thunderbolt not in much numbers but like 50 of them.

Yes. Lets also get B-2s, B-52s, F-22s and tactical nukes.

 

[tharikiran]

The army should go ahead and develop its own air wing.we see air force and army doing joint exercises but when the war starts each has their own agenda.
It has happened during kargil war.One MI-17 and Mig-27 was lost and the air force pretty much refused to support ground troops . The army will be better off with their own apache's and A10's.This will leave no room for blame game.Air force will do its job of taking out high value assets and the army apache's will do their job of defending troops and armor columns.

 

[Yusuf]

Yes. Lets also get B-2s, B-52s, F-22s and tactical nukes.

Come on mate. A 10 is a good system and not very expensive. Combat proven in desert conditions which suits India fine. I am a big fan of it and don't see why we cannot afford it. Along with the new RFP fir attack helos for the Army, it would be a great asset for the army.

 

[F-14]

but yusufji that woould make the for a dangerous strain in Interservice relations the most balanced approche would be for the IAF to turn in all Rotary assests to the army and contrate on Fixed winged platforms

 

[Yusuf]

Not necessary. Look at the US system. All there service wings have air assets. The army has substantial air assets.
It frees the AF to take care of strategic issues rather than tactical. It also takes care of the lack of sync between the two branches.

Also makes sense with the new cold start doctrine which requires both AF and Army push. If the AF is relieved of providing CAS, it can do other things.

 

[F-14]

yusfji what if current army battalions had embedded avavtion battalions in them

 

[Soham]

Come on mate. A 10 is a good system and not very expensive. Combat proven in desert conditions which suits India fine. I am a big fan of it and don't see why we cannot afford it. Along with the new RFP fir attack helos for the Army, it would be a great asset for the army.

I don't deny its value. We even have the money for Raptors. The question is, will the A-10s even ever be offered to us ?

A fact in case is that the USAF is the sole user of these killing machines. The system hasn't been offered to their closest allies haven't, why do you think it will be offered to us ?

 

[Yusuf]

yusfji what if current army battalions had embedded avavtion battalions in them

Didn't quite get your question.Are you asking if we already had an air wing already then what?