Indian Army Aviation Wing

[Tshering22]

American jet with a Sinophile Obama in White House? LOL! Not a chance! Their technology denial regimes are too strong and therefore we cannot risk it.

 

[ahmedsid]

The A10s are vulnerable to SAMs, especially portable ones in the battlefield AFAIK. Do correct me. The USA brought in the 10s after complete Air Superiority, or in Circumstances wherein the enemy is routed and on the run, for eg: Highway of Death, Kuwait.

Our Main Adversaries have a decent SAM networks and man portables in their columns. I dont think the A10s worth the money and maintenance.

 

[maomao]

The A10s are vulnerable to SAMs, especially portable ones in the battlefield AFAIK. Do correct me. The USA brought in the 10s after complete Air Superiority, or in Circumstances wherein the enemy is routed and on the run, for eg: Highway of Death, Kuwait.

Our Main Adversaries have a decent SAM networks and man portables in their columns. I dont think the A10s worth the money and maintenance.

Thats true, but you have to realize that it has good SAM defense capabilities and secondly it does not have to go to low altitudes to launch anti-tank missiles or LGBs. It may be costly to maintain but we do maintain Russian A/Cs and above all its a damn tough plane and wrecks havoc on the infantry and armored vehicles. I am not in favor of US equipment, however, A-10 is one one such A/C which will be required in the future to wipe out maoist mess created by GOI. If not A-10 then something like A-10 is needed.

 

[shaka]

^^^ Maoists are Indian citizens, not martians or aliens. IAF is not there to blow up Indians. Even IAF chief has hinted at that. IF these people have taken up arms against the administration of their states who are run as nothing less than a gunda raj namely U.P. and Bihar. Its the problem of these states. They need to put their house in order. If China is supplying arms to these people than we need to grow some b@lls, and actively support Tibet as an independent country and encourage Tibetians to take up arms against China openly. Cure the disease not symptoms.

A question by the way:
If you want to take out Maoists, why A-10, why waste tax payer money??? What is wrong with cluster munitions that Mig27, Jaguar will happily carry if I am not wrong. Why not go one step further and just level the whole states and cities/villages that are draining the nation's resources ?

 

[maomao]

^^^^ Looking at the way GOI is tackling maoists, I would suggest eventually it will require a full scale operation (I need not mention who presently is hand in glove with maoists against Commie/Marxists of Bengal).

Dedicated CAS platform with army would go a long way to chalk out strategies not just against maoists but other areas where troops require heavy duty air support, and please keep in mind if GOI or ACM says something today, they can easily say something totally opposite tomorrow when things go out of control, this GOI always let things go out of hand and only then react in the most bloody fashion, examples are plenty.

 

[Singh]

A-10 production lines were wound up long back.

 

[pmaitra]

IMHO - No, no, no.

India should not waste money on the A-10 Thunderbolt-2 (close air support aircraft) simply because it would be an overkill. We have our tried and trusted Mil-35 Krokodil (NATO Hind) helicopter gunship-transporter-combos, that was so successful in IPKF operations in Sri Lanka and also in UN operations in Sierra Leone, and perfectly fit the requirements.

• They will not be vulnerable to RPG attacks because Maoists have not used RPGs to my knowledge. Even if they did, a few RPGs often cannot destroy this 'flying tank' ('летающий танк' or 'letayushchiy tank', as the Russians would call it). The Maoists, for sure, do not have Stingers.
• They will primarily operate in lower altitudes and hence will be able to carry a full complement of weapons and troops.
• They are fast, because they have winglets and do not entirely depend on the rotors for lift.
• It is not a gunship, neither transporter, but a combo of both and hence can deploy troops at remote locations and then provide fire support.
• Machine gun and rifle bullets the Maoists typically use will simply bounce off this heavily armoured helicopter.
• Since India already uses these machines, it will be easier to train new pilots or existing pilots can be used in operations.
• India already has the technical capability to maintain and repair these helicopters.
• A minor modification to this machine would be installing Mil-28N rotors system and this machine can be improved further.

 

[shaka]

^^^^ Looking at the way GOI is tackling maoists, I would suggest eventually it will require a full scale operation (I need not mention who presently is hand in glove with maoists against Commie/Marxists of Bengal).

Dedicated CAS platform with army would go a long way to chalk out strategies not just against maoists but other areas where troops require heavy duty air support, and please keep in mind if GOI or ACM says something today, they can easily say something totally opposite tomorrow when things go out of control, this GOI always let things go out of hand and only then react in the most bloody fashion, examples are plenty.

Yes but the question is where you draw the line. To me Pakistani Army is pathetic for what they are doing to their own people on behest on Americans (Other insignificant jokers in NATO don't matter) in northern areas namely FATA. Taliban is their own creation. Similarly Maoists are creation of Indian system, like it or not. Politicians are washing their own hands for the mess they have created and want IA and IAF do their dirty work. I am sorry but I cant agree with that.

 

[maomao]

A-10 production lines were wound up long back.

The question is not about A-10 in particilar, but a dedicated CAS A/C. I only know two-seater version was never produced.

 

[pmaitra]

^^^^ Looking at the way GOI is tackling maoists, I would suggest eventually it will require a full scale operation (I need not mention who presently is hand in glove with maoists against Commie/Marxists of Bengal).

As long as our PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh meekly tolerates a Maoist sympathiser like Mamata Banerjee in his cabinet, do not expect much.

The Maoists have killed more than 900 CPI(M) supporters in the past 14 months, and Congress can see some hope of gaining ground in WB due to depletion in the CPI(M) ranks. So there is indeed a conflict of interests between national internal security and political gains, as both TMC and Congress get to gain by weakening the CPI(M) in WB.

 

[maomao]

Yes but the question is where you draw the line. To me Pakistani Army is pathetic for what they are doing to their own people on behest on Americans (Other insignificant jokers in NATO don't matter) in northern areas namely FATA. Taliban is their own creation. Similarly Maoists are creation of Indian system, like it or not. Politicians are washing their own hands for the mess they have created and want IA and IAF do their dirty work. I am sorry but I cant agree with that.

I doesn't matter what you and me think, eventually when water crosses over our heads GOI will plead for help, Blue Star is one example where Tanks and constant Air Support were used on our own citizens, why do you think this dirty business has been the legacy of pakistan alone?

 

[shaka]

IMHO - No, no, no.
[*]They will not be vulnerable to RPG attacks because Maoists have not used RPGs to my knowledge. Even if they did, a few RPGs often cannot destroy this 'flying tank' ('летающий танк' or 'letayushchiy tank', as the Russians would call it). The Maoists, for sure, do not have Stingers.
[/LIST]

But what if Maoists attack air bases? Why cant Maoists get Stingers? That will be a win for China etc. without firing a bullet themselves.

 

[pmaitra]

But what if Maoists attack air bases? Why cant Maoists get Stingers? That will be a win for China etc. without firing a bullet themselves.

What if? Well, that is a hypothetical question. They do not have Stingers, and that is a fact. Maoists can't get Stingers because they are too expensive and not easy to procure. Even if they did, which is very very unlikely, they will have to get it from US or NATO countries.

If they attack air bases, then they will probably use mortars and again, they do not have mortars, AFAIK, but have pressure mines that are used to blow up vehicles that travel on roads. If they launch a ground attack, ground troops will have to protect the air base. All the Maoists have to do is damage the runway, and this A-10 Thunderbolt-2 will be a sitting duck, while any helicopter can simply get out of the mess and counter-attack.

Moreover, if China can supply Stingers or other MANPADs to the Maoists, then the problem is our intelligence, BSF and Coast Guard, not the troops fighting on the ground or the aircraft they are using.

 

[Singh]

The question is not about A-10 in particilar, but a dedicated CAS A/C. I only know two-seater version was never produced.

Jaguar is one of the finest CAS planes around.

As long as our PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh meekly tolerates a Maoist sympathiser like Mamata Banerjee in his cabinet, do not expect much.

The Maoists have killed more than 900 CPI(M) supporters in the past 14 months, and Congress can see some hope of gaining ground in WB due to depletion in the CPI(M) ranks. So there is indeed a conflict of interests between national internal security and political gains, as both TMC and Congress get to gain by weakening the CPI(M) in WB.

I doesn't matter what you and me think, eventually when water crosses over our heads GOI will plead for help, Blue Star is one example where Tanks and constant Air Support were used on our own citizens, why do you think this dirty business has been the legacy of pakistan alone?

Air ops against civilians were first undertaken in Manipur in the 50s (not sure of the date).


I think the present central govt has done more than other previous union govts have combined against the maoists, though I will concede that even that is not enough.
Basically a concerted state+central+public effort is required. Unfortunately the politicians lack the appetite to take the fight to the maoists, and lack the will to see this through. Status quo is yielding good results for the concerned parties as well.

 

[ahmedsid]

Guys, the A10 is basically anti armour! Employing it against Maoists in our Forests, will entail heavy destruction not only to the Maoists but also to the population/environment. It will be like Americans using napalm in Vietnam.

The A10 made mincemeat of retreating Iraqi armour in Gulf War, but I dont know how it will be tactically employed against maoists. Can those propogating this explain?

 

[Singh]

But what if Maoists attack air bases? Why cant Maoists get Stingers? That will be a win for China etc. without firing a bullet themselves.

Do the pak terrorists in Kashmir use stingers ? The reason is simple, if they do then there will be a war. Maoists though could have access to AA guns.

When fighting the adversaries you play to your advantages.

 

[pmaitra]

Do the pak terrorists in Kashmir use stingers ? The reason is simple, if they do then there will be a war. Maoists though could have access to AA guns.

When fighting the adversaries you play to your advantages.

This is what Wikipedia says about the armour of the Mil-24/Mil-35, that India already has.

"The body is heavily armored and can resist impacts from .50 caliber (12.7 mm) rounds from all angles, including the titanium rotor blades. The cockpit is an even more heavily armored titanium tub and can resist impact from 37 mm cannon rounds."

 

[shaka]

Unfortunately the politicians lack the appetite to take the fight to the maoists

I will re-phrase it:
Unfortunately the politicians lack the appetite to take the fight to the Chinese

 

[Singh]

Yes we have some 2 dozen Mil-24s, several hundred Jags, Migs and dozens of UAVs. Equipment, Money, Manpower, Logistics etc is not a problem. The problem is ...

 

[Singh]

I will re-phrase it:
Unfortunately the politicians lack the appetite to take the fight to the Chinese

Lets not blame Chinese for the ills of the state.