Indian Army Artillery

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
The upgrade was further on, It was projected to upgrade all M46 to 155mm of 45cal ..

I would say, Different ammunition perhaps, Indian Ammo is better ..

@Kunal bhai,I've a few questions to ask.

1.Has the Metamorphosis M 46 project been restarted yet or the same story as usual??And how many M 46 units will be upgunned to 155mm L45 standard??

2.According to their manufacturer's websites,the OFB FH 77B L45 has maximum range of 39-40 km with ERFB BB ammo and MKEK Panter L 52 has 41 km with ERFB BB-I want to ask to you why both systems have nearly identical range with same type ammo despite of the Panter having a longer barrel??Any idea??

THANKS in advance........
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Blood+

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
2,913
Likes
4,577
Country flag
The upgrade was further on, It was projected to upgrade all M46 to 155mm of 45cal ..

I
I would say, Different ammunition perhaps, Indian Ammo is better ..
I certainly hope that our ammo is better.By the way,do you know approximately how many M 46 artillery pieces were inducted into IA inventory??

And does the OFB manufacture spare parts for the M 46 like it does for FH 77Bs or are the parts have to be imported??

THANKS again........
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
I cannot say for sure, But the number is indeed double or more than what is written over Wiki ..
 

Twinblade

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag
@Kunal bhai,I've a few questions to ask.

1.Has the Metamorphosis M 46 project been restarted yet or the same story as usual??And how many M 46 units will be upgunned to 155mm L45 standard??

2.According to their manufacturer's websites,the OFB FH 77B L45 has maximum range of 39-40 km with ERFB BB ammo and MKEK Panter L 52 has 41 km with ERFB BB-I want to ask to you why both systems have nearly identical range with same type ammo despite of the Panter having a longer barrel??Any idea??

THANKS in advance........
1. Around 180 guns were upgraded to 45 caliber, but they didn't manage to reach the advertised ranges. There was also a problem with barrel burst with Soltam supplied kits. OFB proposed Metamorphosis upgrade didn't happen.

2. The difference could be due to different shell types.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Twinblade

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag
I certainly hope that our ammo is better.By the way,do you know approximately how many M 46 artillery pieces were inducted into IA inventory??

And does the OFB manufacture spare parts for the M 46 like it does for FH 77Bs or are the parts have to be imported??

THANKS again........
About a 100 or so FH-77 were scavenged in the late 90s for spares, then in early 2000s spares deals were made with BAE which salvaged the situation. OFB has been making significant number of spares for FH-77 for quite some time, They proposed a 45 caliber variant of FH-77 way back in 2005-6 itself, it was considered unnecessary at the time as 52 cal guns were to be purchased. The rest as they say is history.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
Their are three kits under OFB tried out, The third prototype was successful and in service, there numbers in past were on rise and still is ..

OFB proposed Metamorphosis upgrade didn't happen.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
If i am not mistaking someone stretching the trails, The gun already successful in summer trails then winter trails in this Jan ..
 

rajsking

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
190
Likes
230
Country flag
but there were reports that ofb has managed to manufacture 2 155m guns based on original bofors drawing one 39 caliber(same as ulh and lighter) and 1 heavier 45 caliber.also i do not understand this fascination with heliborne insertion of howitzer-india army never had this requirement before until 4-5 years ago.it would have been understandable if this requirement was from parachute regiment(who do operate lighter 105mm indian field gun) but this is from the mountain strike corps who in my opinion should be equipped with the dhanush(45 caliber desi bofors) until the drdo manufactured 155 mm 52 caliber gun comes into picture.
Refer below from Wiki
The Indian Army has also announced plans to acquire 145 guns for INR30 billion (US$480 million), but purchase plans were overtaken when the procurement process was restarted in July 2010. India's Ministry of Defence cleared the proposal for buying 145 guns for $660 million on 11 May 2012 through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route of the US government.[24] This would be put up before the Ministry of Finance for clearance and will subsequently be taken up by the Cabinet Committee on Security for final approval. On 2 August 2013, India requested the sale of 145 M777 howitzers for $885 million
in one year price increased from USD 660m to USD 885m i.e. about 35% increase. Inflation in US should not even be 5%.
 

Kushal sinha

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
36
Likes
8
Following a flurry of articles that appeared in various Indian media on Aug. 25 2009 about Indian artillery acquisitions remaining in limbo even while Pak procured, over the course of the last four-and-a-half years, 67 M-109 A5 155 mm howitzers from America using 'War on Terror' funds, the following news announcement from Indian Defence Online is a revision to and an update of the procurement status, with a reissued, heightened tender for the induction of 2814 artillery of different types. While it is true there has been not a single artillery procurement since the Bofors scandal, India still has in its posession, the following:

This is from a now dated article from late 1998, however in light of the fact that no artillery procurements have subsequently followed, it still stands.



The Field Artillery has in its service:


- One regiment each of 7.2 in and 5.5 in guns for general support;
both weapons were expected to be taken out of service by 1998.


- The Bofors 155 mm FH-77B howitzer used for general support and
counter-bombardment. This weapon is also deployed in the mountains
with six howitzers in Siachen and an 18-weapon regiment in both
Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh. A total of 410 FH-77s against a
projected requirement of over 2,000 were procured in 1986. The
programme came into disrepute because of alleged bribes to
politicians (the Bofors scandal refered to aforthwith).


- The towed 130 mm M-46 field gun and the 130 mm Catapult
self-propelled gun (which equips only one regiment) used for
close support, general support and counter battery fire.
India procured about 400 Russian M-46s between 1992-95 for around
Rs.100,000 ($2,800) apiece. The Field Artillery now has 720 M-46s in
36 regiments and plans to have 60 regiments equipped by 2000.


- The 122 mm D-30 towed howitzer used for close support by multiple
regiments deployed on the plains.


- Many regiments now equipped with the 105 mm Indian Field Gun, and
earmarked to convert to the M-46.


- The 105 mm Light Field Gun equips regiments deployed in the
mountains. - The last regiment of 105 mm Abbot self-propelled guns
will soon be phased out.


- The 75 mm Pack Gun-Howitzer used to provide close support in
mountainous regions. While the splinter effect of its shells is
greater than the 25 pounder gun, its effect on defensive positions remains
unsatisfactory.


- The 160 mm M58 Tampella. The Field Artillery is also equipped with the
120 mm AM-50 Brand smoothbore which can be used to a range of 9,000 m
with PEPA/LP extended range ammunition.​


----

And now for the good news:


Indian Army to Execute $4 Billion Artillery Projects

August 27, 2009
http://indiadefenceonline.com/1125/indian-army-to-execute-4-billion-artillery-projects/



India is all set to initiate the long-awaited $4 billion artillery modernisation programme and will shortly float a global tender for the acquisition of 814 motorised howitzers.

The Artillery modernisation programme aims to induct roughly 2,814 guns of different types.


Defence Ministry sources said that the project has been granted approval by the Defence Acquisitions Council which is chaired by Defence Minister A K Antony and the Request for Proposal will be issued.

The artillery modernization includes off-the-shelf purchase of 200 155mm/52-calibre mounted gun systems from overseas, which will be followed by indigenous manufacture of another 614 such howitzers under transfer of technology.

The 17-tonne motorized howitzers will arm 40 regiments.

Another major project includes the purchase of 100 155mm/52-calibre self-propelled tracked guns for five artillery regiments and its field trials are slated for May-June 2010.

India is also looking to finalize the Rs 8,000 crore project to buy 400 155mm/52-calibre towed artillery guns, which is to be followed by indigenous manufacture of another 1,180 howitzers.

The contenders are BAE Systems, ST Kinetics of Singapore and Israeli Soltam.


Another project was to acquire 140 air-mobile ultra-light howitzers (ULHs) for Rs 2,900 crore. This is being eagerly awaited since the Indian Army needs ULHs to ensure artillery can be deployed in remote inaccessible areas.


India's artillery modernization has been plagued with scandals and delays for decades.

No new artillery gun has been inducted ever since the infamous Rs 1,437 crore Bofors contract for 410 field howitzers became a scandal in 1986.

After that, a series of other delays including more dubious defence scams have kept India from modernizaing its artillery.

Lately, ST Kinetics has also come under the scanner for corruption charges.


Indian Army to Execute $4 Billion Artillery Projects | India Defence Online
bhai m777 kab ayega
 

Kushal sinha

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
36
Likes
8
The ia should be looking for truck mobile units like the pinakas, though costly are effective and has a wider range. In modern warfare, artilerry systems wont play a major role, only if the war is subjected to a lower and much controlled scale.
The use of artillery, is to bombard the enemy posts b4 foot soldiers enter, or to stop/slow advances of incmng enemy regiments. This can be done more efficiently by pinaka type systems , (even cheaper and low range ones's are effective)., and not to forget our iaf with a2g missiles having range over 300kms.
Its just my views though...................
i also support you that drdo should come up with arty projects
 

rajsking

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
190
Likes
230
Country flag
Add to that the decrease in rupee value.
Regarding the m777 deal.
Both figures are in USD- the currency in which India will be paying for the purchase.

Exchange rate difference will be over and over this price difference in USD.

And I would not even dare to compare their prices in INR terms due to sharp depreciation in exchange rate experienced in FY13. Otherwise in INR terms the price escalation will be more than even 50%.
 
Last edited:

arnabmit

Homo Communis Indus
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
6,242
Likes
7,522
Country flag
Also, they have already started shutting down M777 production line. Buying now or later would include cost of restarting the line.

With no Indian orders, BAE Systems starts shutdown of M777 gun factory | Business Standard

Regarding the m777 deal.
Both figures are in USD- the currency in which India will be paying for the purchase.

Exchange rate difference will be over and over this price difference in USD.

And I would not even dare to compare their prices in INR terms due to sharp depreciation in exchange rate experienced in FY13. Otherwise in INR terms the price escalation will be more than even 50%.
 
Last edited:

shuvo@y2k10

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
2,653
Likes
6,709
Country flag
i think with the production of m777 shutting down it would be wise to withdraw from the project which in future will be much much more expensive and a repeat of gorshkov,scorpene,rafael price escalation saga.ofb should concentate on dhanush and try to bring down its weight by using titanium alloys to make the gun barrel.also it's time to revive the bhim project now that denel is cleared of all charges and is collaborating with tata on g6 sph.
 

Latest Replies

New threads

Articles

Top