Indian Army Artillery

sayareakd

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Ministry of Defence
06-May, 2013 15:13 IST
Howitzer Guns

A case for procurement of Qty.100 x 155mm/52 Calibre Tracked (self-propelled) Guns is in progress wherein three Indian vendors, including two private sector companies, have been selected for trials of their equipment.

The recent amendments to the DPP-2011 which have been accepted by the Defence Acquisition Council aim to give higher preference to indigenous capacity in the Defence Sector.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri Ramesh Bais and others in Lok Sabha today.

DM/HH/RK
(Release ID :95626)

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two private sector vendors must be Tata Power Strategic Electronics Division (SED) with gun from South African Denel and L&T with K9 gun from SKT. I think other player must be OFB.

I think L&T gun is better of they can produce the same here in India, remember SKT has licence the same to Turkey. Right now situation is such that we should ask all the three players to sell at least 400 guns each.
 

Kunal Biswas

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W.G.Ewald

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25 pounders would do..
Still in inventory?

Ordnance QF 25 pounder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Ordnance QF 25 pounder, or more simply, 25-pounder or 25-pdr, was introduced into service just before World War II, during which it served as the major British field gun/howitzer. Combining high rates of fire with a reasonably lethal shell in a highly mobile piece, it was the British Army's primary artillery field piece well into the 1960s, with smaller numbers serving in training units until the 1980s. Many Commonwealth of Nations countries used theirs in active or reserve service until about the 1970s and ammunition for the weapon is currently being produced by Pakistan Ordnance Factories.
Is Wiki infor correct?

 

W.G.Ewald

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75mm are ceased, Mortars would do better..
The 75 served well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/75_mm_Gun_M2/M3/M6

The 75mm tank gun has its origins in the famous French Canon de 75 modèle 1897 field gun of World War I fame which was also adopted by the United States and used well into World War II as the 75mm M1897 field gun. Both the tank and field guns fired the same range of 75x350R ammunition. The primary round was the M48 High Explosive. This 6.76 kg (14.9 lb) round travelled at 625 m/s (2,050 ft/s) and contained 1.5 pounds of TNT filling and choice of Super Quick (SQ) or Delay (PD) with 0.05 or 0.15 seconds of delay fuse. SQ was the standard setting with PD used against structures, gun positions or lightly protected vehicles. The field gun origins of the ordnance and ammunition ensured that the M2/3/6 series HE round was highly effective for its caliber. The M48 was available in 2 versions, standard or supercharge which increased the propellent charge for greater muzzle velocity (1,885 ft/s (575 m/s) vs. 1,470 ft/s (450 m/s)) and range (2,300 yards greater).


Field Gun, 75mm M1897

Field Gun, 75mm M1897
This artillery piece was the U.S. Army adaptation of the "75 modèle 1897" or "French 75". Some French-built guns and the U.S. M1897 copy were used by the AEF in World War I, 1917-1918. During the inter-war decades between WW I and WW II there was little new development of weapons in the U.S. so this gun remained the main light field artillery of the U.S. Army. It was updated and redesignated with a series of names including M1897A2, M1897A4, then the M2A1 and finally M2A2 in 1939. Changes included better ammunition, pneumatic tires, and improved sights but otherwise remained largely the same as the original M1897. The Fredericksburg TX gun in these photographs had an arsenal rebuild in 1941 at Watervliet, the Army's cannon foundry, but is still marked M1897. The gun weighed 3,440 pounds and fired a shell weighing 14.9 pounds.
 

WMD

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April 29/13: 114 from OFB. Minister of state for Defence Shri Jitendra Singh confirms the contract details with India's Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), who discovered that they had been sitting on blueprints to license-produce the 155/39 FH77 howitzer for over 20 years (vid. Oct 15/11). OFB have carried out several firings of their derivative 155mm x 45 calibre gun, but it hasn't been submitted for user testing yet, and hasn't received production clearance.

Once they get that clearance, there's a contract for 114 towed guns. The first 6 will be delivered within 8 months of clearance, and another 6 over the next 4 months. Year 2 will produce 36 guns, and the last 60 will be manufactured in year 3. Indian government external link.

April 29/13: What, me worry? Defense Minister AK Antony offers the usual non-response external link to a Parliamentary question that asks about the delays in getting India's Army new artillery. We'll save you the verbiage. Summary: "Nothing's happening, and we're not doing much about it, either."

India has marked over $4 billion worth of artillery projects to purchase several hundred new 155mm howitzers. They are intended to supplement India's dwindling artillery stocks, while out-ranging and out-shooting Pakistan's self-propelled M109 external link 155mm guns. It seemed simple enough, and in the main towed artillery competition, BAE Systems Bofors had been competing against systems from Israel's Soltam and Denel of South Africa.

Unfortunately, India's 2 towed howitzer competitions, and its 2 self-propelled artillery procurements, have mostly served as cautionary tales. If the stakes weren't so high, they'd qualify as farce. The simple process of buying off-the-shelf artillery guns has become a decades-long affair filled with legal drama, accusations of corruption, and multiple re-starts – but not one new gun. Competitions are declared, and canceled, again and again. One is on its 5th iteration. Another is on its 3rd. Meanwhile, India's stock of operational 155mm FH77 howitzers has dwindled to around 200, and their last successful artillery buy was over 2 decades ago. Is there an end in sight to any of these competitions? Or a potential winner?


US-India Defense and Strategic Affairs reported on the competition external link in 2004, and noted that this was expected to be one of the first large defense procurement decisions made by India's new United Progressive Alliance government. The question became whether a decision could be made within that government's term(s) of office. The answer: no.

The saga is illustrative of the problems India's defense bureaucracy is creating across all of its artillery competitions, as it attempts to field working products before its existing artillery systems expire.

After multiple firing trials and several years, India's towed artillery competition managed to end up without any competitors left standing. All 3 competitors (Bofors FH-77 B05, Soltam TIG 2002, Denel G5/2000) failed to meet India's accuracy specifications in 2003 trials. Which might lead one to question the specifications, but all 3 improved their guns to compete again in 2004. There are reports that Soltam fell out of the race entirely, after a barrel burst during field trials. Then South Africa's Denel was sidelined in 2004 and eliminated in 2005, after the Indian government accused the manufacturer of corruption in another defense deal.

That created problems on 2 fronts. One front involved a key competitor. Denel's financial situation was deteriorating, and The Times of India reported that the contract may have been critical to the firm's financial survival external link. In hindsight, that concern was valid, but Denel managed to survive the loss. A win certainly would have made a significant difference, and might have allowed Denel to delay its major corporate restructuring and associated strategic rethinking for several years.

The other problem involved India's Ministry of Defence. India's defense procurement establishment has shown an extreme risk-averse behavior and Defense India observes external link that when a competition devolves to a single-vendor solution, the practice is often to re-tender. Soltam and Denel's exit left just BAE Bofors, until they, too were eliminated by allegations that Bofors had paid INR 640 million (about $16 million) in bribes, trying to secure the order.

The net effect of corporate blacklists, plus single-vendor prohibitions, is a process that can't field equipment to India's military when it's needed – and sometimes ever. Unfortunately for India's front-line soldiers, their need for working artillery hasn't changed.

Indian history suggests that this is a long-standing problem. Bofors Defence AB had been blacklisted by India before, after allegations of kickbacks in a 1987 deal during Rajiv Gandhi's regime. That scandal had derailed a planned 1,500 gun buy, reducing it to 410 FH-77 B02 howitzers. Fortunately for India, those guns arrived in time to become an iconic feature of the 1999 Kargil War with Pakistan. On the civil front, meanwhile, those accused in the Bofors case eventually had their day in court, and won. Leaving behind a number of questions that India's political class would rather leave unasked.

In April 2007, India re-opened its towed howitzer competition again, and the passage of time had created a number of changes in its requirements and options. By November 2009, however, it was the same old dynamic. The mere allegation of bribery had frozen the competition again, by leaving just 1 eligible contender. Would the January 2011 re-start fare any better?

Meanwhile, the support contract with Bofors for India's in-service howitzers expired in 2001. As of January 2009, India's stock was believed to sit at just 200 operational 155/39 caliber guns. They are accompanied by existing stocks of Soviet-era 130mm artillery, and 105mm light guns. A contract with Soltam (now Elbit) of Israel has converted some of those 130mm howitzers to 155mm/45 caliber weapons, raising the guns' range from 26 km to 39 km/ 24 miles.
India's Howitzer Competitions

The competition for Indian artillery is actually several competitions.
Towed Howitzers

The competition covered in the previous section involves about $1.8 billion for 400 towed 155/52 artillery guns, to be followed by production of up to 1,180 in India.

Current Status: 5th RFP is now out. Winter and summer trials planned in 2010, now in limbo. BAE Bofors' FH77 external link was competing against ST Engineering's FH-2000 external link, but BAE pulled out, and ST Kinetics is barred by a 10-year blacklist. On the sidelines, India's DRDO has used the blockage to start a design project of its own.

It also turned out that India's incompetent Ordnance Factory Board has been sitting on the plans it was given for the 155/39 caliber Bofors FH77B02, as the tech transfer piece of the 1990s buy that allowed licensed production in India. An October 2011 decision directed the OFB to begin manufacturing 155/39 and 155/45 caliber versions of these guns for trials, for delivery beginning in December 2012.
Ultra-Light Howitzers

A 2nd competition involves about $700 million for the ultra-light 155/39 howitzer competition, covering about 145 pieces. These would be portable, towed guns.

Current status: India's government may be doing a government-to-government deal, as an emergency end-run to buy BAE's M777, and bolster its dwindling artillery.

Singapore's Pegasus was picked in 2009, but ST Kinetics' 10-year blacklisting has derailed them, pending a legal fight. The reasons for the M777"²s holdup are a combination of the Indian bureaucracy's inability to conduct the required trials in over 2 years since the DSCA request, and reports that legal advisors were worried about a decision in the ST Kinetics' legal case entangling any M777 buy. In May 2012, India's MoD was reportedly cleared to negotiation an M777 contract worth around $550 million. As of May 2013, they haven't managed to get anything done.
Self-Propelled Tracked Howitzers

A 3rd competition would spend about $800 million for about 100 155mm self-propelled tracked guns. The BHIM (Denel G-6 gun on Arjun tank chassis) winner was terminated in 2006, when Denel was barred following a corruption case. Partner Bharat Earth Movers was the big loser. Another RFP in 2007 failed, as all firms were barred.

Current status: In limbo. Meanwhile, Pakistan began its own process in 2005, and bought 115 tracked M109A5 155mm self-propelled howitzers from the USA, at a very cheap price. The last one was delivered to Pakistan in 2010.
Self-Propelled Wheeled Howitzers

A 4th competition involves about $900 million – $1 billion for 180 self-propelled wheeled guns.

Current status: Canceled November 2011. RFP responses were reported to pit Slovakia's 155/45 Zuzana external link system against Germany's Rheinmetall and their RWG-52 external link 155/52 system, which uses the PzH-2000 turret. Samsung Technwin's entry, which is no longer listed in their product line external link, was eliminated in 2009.
Procurement Nadir: India’s Murky, Messed-Up Howitzer Competitions
 

natarajan

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guys did you notice pakistan has huge artillery mainly from usa,i dont know how could uncle give such huge number artillery for fighting against taliban whereas we are struggling to get in hundreds from them ,another thing this year no purchase in all sectors
 

Lions Of Punjab

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What is difference between products made from OFB and DRDO ? OFB has developed and artillery weapon of some 45 cal for our army and was said to be inducted into army in some 144 in numbers . Then why DRDO is undertaking a new arti project ?

Specially :- what the status of Tata made howitzer ? it was said to have a good range and is Indigenous too .
 

arnabmit

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OFB making 45cal guns based on Bofors platform designs and Israel barrel design. DRDO researching on 52cal barrel and enhanced platform. Once done, OFB will produce them.

Tata howitzer used Danel gun on Tata truck. Danel is currently blacklisted.

What is difference between products made from OFB and DRDO ? OFB has developed and artillery weapon of some 45 cal for our army and was said to be inducted into army in some 144 in numbers . Then why DRDO is undertaking a new arti project ?

Specially :- what the status of Tata made howitzer ? it was said to have a good range and is Indigenous too .
 

W.G.Ewald

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guys did you notice pakistan has huge artillery mainly from usa,i dont know how could uncle give such huge number artillery for fighting against taliban whereas we are struggling to get in hundreds from them ,another thing this year no purchase in all sectors
Tough line: US suspends military aid to Pakistan - DailyHerald.com

The U.S. has long been unhappy with Pakistan's evident lack of enthusiasm for carrying the fight against terrorists to its tribal areas, as well as its covert support for the Taliban and anti-Indian extremist groups.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Pinaka 214mm MBRL..


Multi barrel rocket launcher

LOADER REPLENISHMENT VEHICLE

REPLENISHMENT VEHICLE

COMMAND POST
Apart from the above, the system comprises of Fire Direction Radar (FDR), DIGICORA MET Radar, Fire control computer (FCC) and Rocket system with various war heads and fuses.

==========================================
==========================================

In Action >>

 

DivineHeretic

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Pinaka 214mm MBRL..

In Action >>

There was a lot of talk about the development of Guided rockets with extended range for the Pinaka MLRS some 1 year back on the lines of the USARMY/USMC GMLRS....

GMLRS (guided multiple launch rocket system)....
Lockheed Martin developed a new extended-range guided MLRS (GMLRS), which has a range of more than 70km. The GMLRS XM30 rocket has a GPS (global positioning system) and inertial guidance package and small canards on the rocket nose to enhance accuracy.



If we could integrate this new Pinaka System with the BEL WLR, we will have found ourselves a very effective and fast counter battery system, not to mention far more accurate than a 155mm Gun and cheaper yet safer than calling in a airstrike. Something that will immensely help secure the infantry from artillary fire.



Of course, the BEL WLR in its current form is probably not suited for stand-off counter battery role. The range needs to be increased beyond 50Km, the standard range of 155mm 52cal Guns with ER charge.

Note that during 1987 assault to take Bana Post, Pak artillary had been a major source of casualties for the assault unit. Similarly, during Kargil, Pak WLRs were able to track and locate our Guns, and several of ours were lost due to counter battery fire.
 

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