Indian Army Artillery

arnabmit

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Would request someone to please enlighten me...

In the "Artillery Modernization Program", platforms like BAE Archer were rejected earlier because the Autoloader was too "Complex"!!! Apparently BAE is now proposing a manual loader system to meet the IA RFP!!!

Sacrificing autoloader 6-8 rpm MRSI capability for manual 2-3 rpm as the system is "too complex" for a program which is supposed to "modernize" Indian Artillery???

Isn't this an oxymoron?
 

Kunal Biswas

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MRSI can be archived without autoloader but had to be intense..
 

arnabmit

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Hi Kunal, I was actually trying to understand why IA doesn't want autoloader... the logic behind it.

After all its a modernization program... why stick to legacy when advanced tech is available?

Does the cost of autoloader parts, technician & crew training outweigh the advantage of higher rate of fire & non exposed crew & faster shoot n scoot abilities?

MRSI can be archived without autoloader but had to be intense..
 

Kunal Biswas

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Its the maintenance and the increase logistics for the auto-loader, I assume ..
 

arnabmit

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Cant find any sources on the net which states the reason for IA choosing a manual system... Did anyone come across such a document?
 

bengalraider

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One more arty JV coming our way!

Bharat Forge and Elbit Systems to Establish a JVC for Artillery Systems in India

Elbit Systems and Bharat Forge Limited announced today plans to establish a Joint Venture Company (JVC) to address the Indian Ministry of Defence and other potential Indian government customers' requirements for advanced artillery and mortars systems solutions. in addition to addressing current programs and operationally proven systems the JVC will also address future looking programs, including the Advanced Indian Gun System.


Elbit Systems at Aero-India
"The Strategic Cooperation between Elbit Systems and Bharat Forge, and specifically the JVC, will address Indian defence requirements with operationally proven systems from Elbit Systems that have been customized and adapted for Indian conditions and manufactured at the World class manufacturing facility for end-to–end solutions for artillery systems and armored vehicles upgrades established by Bharat Forge recently in India," said Mr. Baba Kalyani, Chairman and Managing Director of Bharat Forge Limited.

The JVC will offer solutions in the artillery guns and mortars segment based on Elbit Systems' operationally proven portfolio, which currently includes systems such as the ATHOS 155/52 Towed Gun System, the ATMOS 155/52 Mounted Gun System and the upgraded 130 mm M46 Gun to a 155/45 Gun (KARAN). The JVC will also role out a range of futuristic products like the Advanced Indian Gun System.


Elbit Systems' ATHOS towed howitzer system
Mr. Bezhalel (Butzi) Machlis, Elbit Systems' Executive Vice President – President and CEO Designee, and formerly General Manager of Elbit Systems Land and C4I Division, noted: "We believe that offering innovative solutions, based on our combined vast operational experience and technological capabilities will position the JVC as a leading supplier to the Indian Ministry of Defence and other potential Indian government customers".

Bharat Forge Limited, the flagship company, of the Kalyani Group, and Elbit Systems Land and C4I Ltd., a wholly owned subsidiary of Elbit Systems Ltd., The JVC will bring together Elbit Systems' cutting edge technology and system integration capabilities and Bharat Forge's advanced capabilities in the areas of design, engineering, manufacturing, testing and validation.
http://defense-update.com/20130207_...ish-a-jvc-for-artillery-systems-in-india.html
 

Shirman

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I am not getting the Funda exactly.......Wasn't Bharat Forge n Kalyani into some indigenous 155mm Gerald Bull designed Austrian based Gun....

Even Kunal Sir posted the pic in Defence expo 12 section.......Here's the Link in Broadsword blog :- Broadsword: Defexpo 2012: Kalyani Group artillery to be featured

So exactly anybody tell me how the howertzer line up is exactly in SPG, TOWED and TRACKED ARTY respectively.......

In tracked arty Donar of KMW is competing with K-9 Thunder of Samsung Techwin n Slovakian- Tatra ARZU....

What about Spg competition and Towed competition......with so many joint ventures mushrooming....
 
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Kunal Biswas

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This will give you very detailed Ideas..


I am not getting the Funda exactly.......Wasn't Bharat Forge n Kalyani into some indigenous 155mm Gerald Bull designed Austrian based Gun....

Even Kunal Sir posted the pic in Defence expo 12 section.......Here's the Link in Broadsword blog :- Broadsword: Defexpo 2012: Kalyani Group artillery to be featured

So exactly anybody tell me how the howertzer line up is exactly in SPG, TOWED and TRACKED ARTY respectively.......

In tracked arty Donar of KMW is competing with K-9 Thunder of Samsung Techwin n Slovakian- Tatra ARZU....

What about Spg competition and Towed competition......with so many joint ventures mushrooming....
 

Defcon 1

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Army to banish Bofors bogey, adopt indigenous, US routes

With defence minister AK Antony pushing for greater indigenization in the defence production sector to avoid scams, the Army is now pinning its hopes on two "prototypes" of artillery guns developed by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to boost its long-range, high-volume firepower.

Even as the force eagerly awaits the "user-trials" of these 155mm/45-calibre field guns in June, it's also pushing for inking of the $647 million contract for acquisition of 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers (ULH) from the US by April-May to "exorcise" its recurring Bofors ghost.

The series of scandals in the artillery arena — beginning with the Swedish Bofors one in the mid-1980s and followed by South African Denel, Israeli Soltam and Singapore Technology Kinetic's (STK) in later years — has left the Army grappling with huge operational gaps since not even a single new 155mm howitzer has been inducted for the past 27 years.

Interestingly, both the new projects on the horizon — part of the long-delayed over Rs 30,000 crore artillery modernization plan — have a strong "Bofors angle". While the ULH deal will be a direct government-to-government contract, which is said to preclude kickbacks, the 155mm/39-calibre M-777s are manufactured by BAE Systems, which now owns the original Bofors company.

The two OFB prototypes are also based on the designs obtained under the transfer of technology (ToT) provisions in the infamous Rs 1,437-crore Bofors contract for 410 155mm howitzers in 1986.

MoD sources said the "letter of acceptance" for the ULH deal should be ready by March-end or so. The air-mobile howitzers, capable of being swiftly deployed in forward areas by helicopters and aircraft, are primarily meant for the high-altitude areas of Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh to counter China.

"An Indian `maintainability evaluation team' visited the US from February 8 to 25 to inspect the howitzers. The guns will be delivered to India within a year of the deal being closed," said a source.

On the other front, the OFB prototypes were "satisfactorily tested" in Pokhran on February 4. The Army wants to induct 414 of these field guns, which have a range of 38-km as compared to the 30-km of the original Bofors gun, in the first stage.

"The prototypes, one with 68% indigenous parts and the other with 46%, will undergo validation firing in March-April before the final user trials in June," said the source.

The other 155mm/52-calibre artillery projects include purchase of 100 self-propelled tracked guns from a foreign vendor and the development of 814 mounted gun systems through a joint venture with the private sector.

But the biggest one is the over Rs 12,000-crore project to buy 400 155mm/52-calibre towed artillery guns, followed by indigenous manufacture of another 1,180 such guns after transfer of technology from the foreign vendor. This project has been derailed at least a couple of times in the past, the last time after STK was blacklisted due to the corruption scandal against former OFB chairman Sudipto Ghosh.

Army to banish Bofors bogey, adopt indigenous, US routes | idrw.org
 

arnabmit

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The original Bofors gun bought in 1980s was a 39 cal one right? So this 45 cal one is indigenous?

If 39-45 upgrade can be done so quickly after dusting out the ToT documents, then why will the 45-52 cal upgrade take 2-3 yrs?

Any idea sir? Or is the time being taken for the futuristic artillery program and not the Bofors based 52 cal gun?



The OFB 155mm / 45cal gun ..
 

Kunal Biswas

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45 cal barrel is thicker and longer than 39cal barrel, 45cal barrel metallurgy and composition metal is also different from 39cal barrel..

India received 45cal barrel technology from Israeli when we upgraded some of 130mm M46 Field Gun to 155MM 45Cal field Gun which were unsuccessful, Latter OFB produced its own version of Israeli barrel in house, MK-1 and MK-2 kit were both unsuccessful later Modified ofb Kit was used to upgrade successfully on 130mm M46 field gun and hence turning them into 155mm / 45cal, Tot documents gives only knowledge of 39cal and the rest of the system, In OFB 45 cal gun the tot was helpful in making the rest of the system except the barrel..

For 52cal barrel technology OFB / DRDO have to look for a partner to know exact dimensions, Metallurgy that is why it will take time..


MK-1 & 2 155mm of 45cal kit form OFB

Modified OFB 155mm of 45cal in service
The same 45cal barrel used on M46 will be on New OFB 45cal gun ..



The original Bofors gun bought in 1980s was a 39 cal one right? So this 45 cal one is indigenous?

If 39-45 upgrade can be done so quickly after dusting out the ToT documents, then why will the 45-52 cal upgrade take 2-3 yrs?

Any idea sir? Or is the time being taken for the futuristic artillery program and not the Bofors based 52 cal gun?
 

kshkumsin

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45 cal barrel is thicker and longer than 39cal barrel, 45cal barrel metallurgy and composition metal is also different from 39cal barrel..

India received 45cal barrel technology from Israeli when we upgraded some of 130mm M46 Field Gun to 155MM 45Cal field Gun which were unsuccessful, Latter OFB produced its own version of Israeli barrel in house, MK-1 and MK-2 kit were both unsuccessful later Modified ofb Kit was used to upgrade successfully on 130mm M46 field gun and hence turning them into 155mm / 45cal, Tot documents gives only knowledge of 39cal and the rest of the system, In OFB 45 cal gun the tot was helpful in making the rest of the system except the barrel..

For 52cal barrel technology OFB / DRDO have to look for a partner to know exact dimensions, Metallurgy that is why it will take time..







The same 45cal barrel used on M46 will be on New OFB 45cal gun ..
well they can adopt the 52 cal conversion provided by BAE+Mahindra venture the FH77BO5
.They offer full ToT




+e
 

Adwait

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M777 ultra light howitzers will add more teeth to Indian army...defending fronts like siachen,J&k etc will b a bit easy..hope they are inducted ASAP
 

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