Indian Army Artillery

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal, I have always appreciated your knowledge but you need to be rational this time.

Regarding, the GSQR issue, army is upgrading itself and issuing many GLOBAL tenders. Is DRDO scared of competeting with the very best of the industry?

Artillery

Tender for artillery modernization was out from 2001. Where is DRDO's entrant? Is it opertational? I don't think so. So whilst the tender was out there for 11 years, DRDO still don't have an operational gun.


As of January 2012 it is understood that the Metamorphosis upgrade remained at the prototype stage. So it is still a prototype 9 years after the initiation of the project.

Upgraded 155 mm/45-calibre Metamorphosis artillery system (India) - Jane's Armour and Artillery

As the military top brass desperately look around for solutions to the crippling shortage of artillery guns, they stumbled upon the fact that India actually has the entire drawings of the Bofors guns, and had paid for the transfer of technology to manufacture the gun in India.

But the Ordnance Factory Board sat on the drawings all these years, never attempting to make the gun in India.

Bofors reloaded: Defence ministry stung again - Times Of India

What the crappy Indian media failed to mention that post Kargil, Army was forced to import 180 M-46 guns from Russia. All because OFB was unaware of the blue prints and DRDO was waiting for an invitation to join the party.

I am aware of the post posted here, And my post are repeated here..

RFI are given to selected tenders, If it was given to OFB there would have been a Operational Gun by now in large number, If you read the article you have given me, Its written OFB was ready with blue prints but never given green light until now..

Regarding 155 X 45cal upgrade, Its operational more than just 180 number specified, I dont have to look at Janes coz i have been seen them in operation theater..

INSAS

Since accroding to you INSAS is a mighty fine product so why on Earth is army hellbent to get rid of it? A simple question mate, is INSAS comparable to the standard issue rifles of major armies like M-16, M-4, G-3 etc?

Army wants INSAS rifles replaced urgently

Army wants INSAS rifles replaced urgently

Army to buy new improved assault rifles to replace INSAS guns

Army to buy new improved assault rifles to replace INSAS guns

All three Rifles are of different category, Insas is a good Rifle and it works in extreme condition accurately, What happened in 1999 and 2000 stays at that era, I dont know why such a nice rifle is being presented bad and hopeless by Indian Media and MOD where it is working not just fine but very good day to day ops in hands of regular soldiers..

Where is DRDO's entrant? Is DRDO still waiting for the invitation?

Yes, without given specs by GSQR there would be no progress..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Post moved to Insas thread..

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...s-indian-small-arms-system-45.html#post522539

 

[blueblood]

RFI are given to selected tenders, If it was given to OFB there would have been a Operational Gun by now in large number, If you read the article you have given me, Its written OFB was ready with blue prints but never given green light until now..

No, it was a global tender which means anyone willing to sell their products are welcome. For eg. MOD never invited SAAB for their Sea Gripen but it is the company who is pitching the product, with or without the tender.

Similiarly, no one is inviting Bharat Forge for their upcoming gun.

Kindly point it out where it is mentioned that OFB wasn't given green light and by whom.

Regarding 155 X 45cal upgrade, Its operational more than just 180 number specified, I dont have to look at Janes coz i have been seen them in operation theater..

Provide some links about the operational M-46 meta guns because I couldn't find one. Last I heard, gun failed the user trials.

All three Rifles are of different category, Insas is a good Rifle and it works in extreme condition accurately, What happened in 1999 and 2000 stays at that era, I dont know why such a nice rifle is being presented bad and hopeless by Indian Media and MOD where it is working not just fine but very good day to day ops in hands of regular soldiers..

I know that all three rifles are different. My question was, "Is INSAS comparable to any one of them"? If yes then how so? It is not the media nor the MOD who are dumping the rifle, it's the army, the user.

Yes, without given specs by GSQR there would be no progress..

GSQR is relevant when army asks a domestic agency to make a product they desire. When army launches global tender, it means anyone with the required product can participate in the tender including the domestic agencies like DRDO and OFB or private players like Tata or Mahindra.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

No, it was a global tender which means anyone willing to sell their products are welcome. For eg. MOD never invited SAAB for their Sea Gripen but it is the company who is pitching the product, with or without the tender. Similiarly, no one is inviting Bharat Forge for their upcoming gun.Kindly point it out where it is mentioned that OFB wasn't given green light and by whom. Provide some links about the operational M-46 meta guns because I couldn't find one. Last I heard, gun failed the user trials.I know that all three rifles are different. My question was, "Is INSAS comparable to any one of them"? If yes then how so? It is not the media nor the MOD who are dumping the rifle, it's the army, the user. GSQR is relevant when army asks a domestic agency to make a product they desire. When army launches global tender, it means anyone with the required product can participate in the tender including the domestic agencies like DRDO and OFB or private players like Tata or Mahindra.

Sea Gripen is not pitched but targeted for Indian Market if you can read well, read the articles on OFB 155mm of 39cal gun blue prints its posted somewhere in this thread & Same for 155mm / 45cal guns induction with Picture latest and older..

First Get Knowledge about Rifle types,and what category Insas fall, then you can ask questions, Regarding last para which is already answered in last post..

 

[blueblood]

Sea Gripen is not pitched but targeted for Indian Market if you can read well, read the articles on OFB 155mm of 39cal gun blue prints its posted somewhere in this thread & Same for 155mm / 45cal guns induction with Picture latest and older..

First Get Knowledge about Rifle types,and what category Insas fall, then you can ask questions, Regarding last para which is already answered in last post..

I can read very well and can write even better. But I think you need to go back to school.

Who told you that Sea Gripen was created exclusively for Indian market?

Point out the said posts or provide some links about the induction as well as the blue prints issue.

Insas is a 5.56 mm caliber assault rifle and so is M-16. M4 is the carbine version of the latter and G3 is a 7.62mm NATO caliber assault rifle but sometimes also referred as battle rifle.

Now answer the question. Is Insas comparable to any of the above in terms of performance, reliability and accuracy? If yes then prove it?

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Nope, just double barrel shotguns or dunali.

Hunting tiger from a howda, were you? :-D

 

[blueblood]

Hunting tiger from a howda, were you? :-D

, no, in my community people like to fire shotguns during the wedding procession (baraat) and during the exchange of jaimalas (garlands).

 

[Ankit Purohit]

Re: this is what bofors is offering THe archer

The Archer system is a development of the earlier 155mm towed FH77 L39, of which more than 700 were produced and are in service with the Swedish, Nigerian and Indian armed forces.

India Should make this type of systems

 

[Pablo Munoz]

^^^^ I haven't heard any new news or updates about the Archer Artillery System since 2010. How is the development progress for it coming along?

Supposely it is to be delivered to the Swedish in Dec 2013.

Archer Artillery System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia says it is under evaluation by the Indian Army.

 

[bhramos]

cut the crap out,..... guys..
this is Artillery thread,... please dicuss Insas in other thread........

 

[Yatharth Singh]

cut the crap out,..... guys..
this is Artillery thread,... please dicuss Insas in other thread........

Instead of writing this why dont you yourself do it! Delete all Insas related posts or move them to relevant thread.After all you are a mod.

 

[Bhadra]

Instead of writing this why dont you yourself do it! Delete all Insas related posts or move them to relevant thread.After all you are a mod.

See yatahartha and understand that the forum is full of DODOs ... and they are absolute intolerants

 

[Yatharth Singh]

See yatahartha and understand that the forum is full of DODOs ... and they are absolute intolerants

First of all, spell my name correctly. Rest comes later.

And please enlighten me that what do you mean by DODOs and whom are you referring it to?

 

[Zebra]

Is there any specific reason for more towed guns and few wheeled/ tracked rather than mix of more wheeled/ tracked guns and few towed?

 

[Bhadra]

Is there any specific reason for more towed guns and few wheeled/ tracked rather than mix of more wheeled/ tracked guns and few towed?

The types of Guns and its carraige depends on the operational roles envisaged for it, the employment doctrine and largly the type of terrian where it would be put to use.

Tracked artillery is basically required for mechanised formations or deserts wherein the artillery system could keep pace with the mechanised columns and keep supporting them closely being equally mobile.

wheeled mounted artillery is useful for well developed terrain where very good network of roads exist or where the cross country mobility is possible on wheels such as NATO's Eastern theatre (Germany, Poland former Yugoslavia etc) or Plains of Punjab and even some mountain areas.

Towed artillery required again good roads and tracks (which are built or can be built) such as plains, deserts and mountainous areas.

However, artillery is a flexible arm and should be able to switch roles, places and terrain. out of these, towed system can be and is used in all terrains as also motorised system to a limited extent subject to nature of roads. Tracked systems are specialised and remain confined to support mobile mechanised operations.

 

[san]

Guys, can we have some discussion on IA's artillery vs PA's. Though we had advantage during 80/90s, PA has done quite good in their artillery modernization. While IA is still waiting for the super duper gun by revising the bid for hundred of times, PA inducted M109 & NORINCO 155mm self propelled howitzer. With an unbiased view, I think PA has better artillery compared to IA for now.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I can read very well and can write even better. But I think you need to go back to school. Who told you that Sea Gripen was created exclusively for Indian market? Point out the said posts or provide some links about the induction as well as the blue prints issue. Insas is a 5.56 mm caliber assault rifle and so is M-16. M4 is the carbine version of the latter and G3 is a 7.62mm NATO caliber assault rifle but sometimes also referred as battle rifle. Now answer the question. Is Insas comparable to any of the above in terms of performance, reliability and accuracy? If yes then prove it?

You want to read and write well then first know what you write on first place and read before post articles..

I have deleted Insas related questions from Arty thread, You talk about Insas go to Insas thread..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Guys, can we have some discussion on IA's artillery vs PA's. Though we had advantage during 80/90s, PA has done quite good in their artillery modernization. While IA is still waiting for the super duper gun by revising the bid for hundred of times, PA inducted M109 & NORINCO 155mm self propelled howitzer. With an unbiased view, I think PA has better artillery compared to IA for now.

IA have good towed artys compare to PA, there is a unspecified number of 155mm of 45 of M46 guns in IA, The number is in good numbers..

Though in SPGH PA is ahead..

 

[Pablo Munoz]

I think the Indian Army needs to speed up their evaluation process.

For the wheeled SPH requirement, I think India should either choose from the Zuzana SPH.

Or the G6 howitzer.

The Zuzana SPH is basically a variant based on the Dana SPH. The Dana SPH has 7 countries operating it. So one could easily assume it is a successful design and gets the job done fine.

And the G6 howitzer is operated by 3 countries and it saw action. So it too is successful.

Sure these Artillery Systems may not fit the exact requirements the Indian Army wants. But at least it's something for now to temporarily fill the gap!

At least for now until the BHIM howitzer project gets finished sooner or later and hopefully inducted into the Army. Just hurry up and get it over with I say!

 

[sayareakd]

k9 as track system and K8 as wheel system is good alternative, plus koreans have already give tot to Turkey, so we can also get this, L&T has tie up with them but IA to some strange reason dont want it.