Indian Army Artillery

[Patriot]

BAE Systems rethinks decision on artillery contract

SOURCE: Ajai Shukla /Business-standard

The feeling is taking root within BAE Systems that the British defence multinational has blundered in opting out of the Indian tender for 155 millimetre towed artillery guns. This was evident on Friday, in the company's Annual Business Review meeting in New Delhi, when senior executives argued that last month's decision not to bid in the MoD's Rs 8,000-crore tender for 1,580 towed guns would seriously disadvantage BAE Systems in competing for other tenders in the Indian Army's Rs 20,000-crore artillery modernisation programme.

This growing fear was summed up by a source that was present in that meeting: "If we don't take part in this tender, we'll remain out of the Indian market for the next three decades."

Shortly before the tender deadline of April 28, BAE Systems had written to the MoD that it would not bid in the contract for towed guns. Now, opinion within the company is veering around to the viewpoint that BAE Systems must bid for this tender.

The deadline of April 28 has since been extended by two months and the MoD will now be accepting bids up to June 28. BAE Systems, therefore, has the time to change its decision.

Last month, BAE Systems had explained why the company was not bidding, despite participating creditably in earlier tenders, including field trials. To conform to the stringent Indian Army specifications laid down in an earlier RFP (Request for Proposals, as the MoD terms tender requests), BAE Systems had made expensive modifications to the gun it was offering, a modernised version of the battle-proven, albeit controversial, Bofors FH-77B gun. But the current tender, issued on January 28, diluted the gun's specifications in order to bring in more vendors. That made the BAE Systems gun over-designed, over-qualified, and probably too expensive.

The company's spokesperson, Guy Douglas, told wire service, IANS, that the BAE Systems FH-77B 05 gun "was specifically designed for and demonstrated to meet the Indian Army's requirements as stated in previous RFPs"¦ We found that the new RFP includes technical and performance relaxations that allow less capable weapon systems to enter the competition. This significantly reduces the competitive advantage FH-77B 05 derives from its greater capability."

It is not yet clear which artillery manufacturers will compete in this new tender for the long-delayed purchase of

155mm towed guns, a procurement that has dragged on for almost a decade. Many of the world's premier manufacturers have been eliminated through blacklisting, including Singapore Technology Kinetics (STK); South African company, Denel; Israeli company, Soltam; and German manufacturer, Rheinmetall.

Fuelling the growing belief that BAE Systems must bid in this tender are behind-the-scenes requests from the army's artillery directorate, which has become convinced, over several rounds of earlier trials, of the quality of the FH-77B 05 Bofors gun. Given the army's backing, BAE Systems' "pro-participation" advocates argue that a few tens of millions of dollars spent on modifications would be an acceptable price for winning this Rs 8,000-crore contract and taking pole position in the other lucrative gun contracts that total up to Rs 20,000 crore.

Contacted for comments, BAE Systems spokesperson, Guy Douglas, denied that there was a rethink under way and ruled out the possibility of a new decision ahead.

The expansively named Artillery Vision 2027 and the MoD-sanctioned Artillery Modernisation Plan visualise four major gun purchases ahead: besides the contract for 1,580 towed guns, the army is also buying 140 ultralight 155mm, 39 calibre howitzers from BAE Systems for about Rs 3,000 crore. Another Rs 3,500 crore is up for grabs for the purchase of 100 track-mounted, 155 mm, 52 calibre howitzers; and Rs 4,000 crore for 180 similar vehicle-mounted guns for self-propelled artillery regiments.

BAE Systems has tied up with a Mahindra group company, Defence Land Systems, as a manufacturing partner for artillery contracts that it wins in India. Mahindra is likely to play an important role in any BAE Systems decision to participate in the tender. The final decision will be taken by BAE Systems' Land & Armaments Divisions.

 

[slenke]

I think BAE/Bofors should stay out of it. If you beat all competition hands down in tests and still get declined.. well it says it all.

 

[sandeepdg]

"Besides, the Army is moving quickly to conclude a $1 billion purchase of ultra light howitzer guns in a couple of months. An Army quality assurance team is in the US for final leg of assessments.

Meanwhile, the Army has dispatched a team to the US to carry out quality assurance assessments of maintenance and other technical specifications of M777, the ultra light howitzers manufactured by BAE Systems US and which is proposed to be acquired for deployment in mountains. "

This came in the article on the C-17 deal today TOI: India's consolation prize to US - The Times of India

I had previously read that the M777 performed poorly in the deserts and at high altitudes, and Army was pretty disappointed. Even then we are still going ahead with this deal !! That's damn stupid !

 

[nitesh]

till big guns comes, IA is asking for more rockets:

Navy likely to induct 'Kawach' rockets in 2013 - The Economic Times

Gupta said 'Pinaca' rockets manufactured at Ordnance Factory at Ambajhari here have been well-received by the Indian Army and the OFB which presently manufactures 1000 rockets per year has a demand five times higher and it might consider increasing its capacity to cope up with the demand.

 

[Anshu Attri]

Be Realistic, Helps Us Plan: DRDO Chief To Armed Forces

Livefist: Be Realistic, Helps Us Plan: DRDO Chief To Armed Forces

The Director General of India's Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO), VK Saraswat today announced that he would soon be launching new programmes to develop 155mm/52cal artillery guns in both towed and self-propelled configurations. "This," he said, was to "take care of future artillery requirements of the next decade, without having to rely on the vagaries of foreign import."

He also took a traditional swipe at his customers, the Indian armed forces, saying, "The services have always been the single most important factor shaping our programmes. We look to the services not as our customer but more importantly as our partner in development, whose inputs are essential and critical to the course of our development projects. But while we welcome all inputs and guidelines, we also feel the need for the services to firm up realistic requirements at the earliest so that we may properly plan our project requirements."

 

[Anshu Attri]

Jinxed Bhim 155mm Gun Finally On Track?

Livefist: Jinxed Bhim 155mm Gun Finally On Track?

Is India's jinxed BHIM 155mm/52cal tracked self-propelled howitzer back on track? Well, the DRDO has revealed in the latest edition of its Tech Focus journal that "the system has been successfully evaluated and accepted by the user". That's huge. The hybrid foreign gun mated with the indigenous Arjun chassis has had a tough run so far.

In 2005, after Denel's T6 turret was chosen to be the weapon mated to an Arjun chassis, the South African gun maker was blacklisted by the Indian government following allegations of using influence to swing a separate deal. In 2007, I visited the DRDO's tank lab in South India just after an effort to identify a new gun for the Bhim had ended in a single-vendor situation, with only the Samsung Techwin coming forward to bid with the K9 turret. So no go. Sort of lost track of the programme since until I saw the DRDO's journal today (full specs in the PDF).

DRDO describes the Bhim as "one of the finest 155mm/52cal self-propelled howitzers, which is endowed with superior firepower, high mobility and system availability characteristics (sic)."

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

The Bhim looks similar to the Russian MSTA-S 155MM/52CAL.

 

[prateikf]

they are the old picture of Denel t-6 on a Arjun chasis. In which world is the DRDO living to put pictures of a Bhim which was cancelled years ago?

 

[bhramos]

they are the old picture of Denel t-6 on a Arjun chasis. In which world is the DRDO living to put pictures of a Bhim which was cancelled years ago?

do you mean this was cancelled!!!
then why did DRDO post the pics?????

 

[sayareakd]

did you guys read that bhim will have 'velocity enhanced long range artillery projectile' which will take its range to 52km (VLAP)
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2011/tf_june2011.pdf

just like this one made for K11 of south korea

 

[nitesh]

What prateik is saying is right, the project was canceled (officially), after Denel was black listed. But, if it is appearing in the latest tech focus, then we can assume that some back channel work was/is going on

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

i think denel was blacklisted may be this is some other gun most probably indegeneous.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Saya, So Bhim is back on track? What is the story here?

 

[bhramos]

i think denel was blacklisted may be this is some other gun most probably indegeneous.

but still sources say its T-6 Denel Gun.......
Bhim 155-mm Prototype Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com

 

[bengalraider]

but still sources say its T-6 Denel Gun.......
Bhim 155-mm Prototype Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com

The Military-Today link is outdated AFAIK , i sincerely hope they brought DENEL back though the T-6 offers more bang for the buck than any other.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

military today is outdated like wikipaedia.bhim sph in a sense was never out of drdo's mind.it made regular appearences on defence expos.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India developing indigenous artillery guns

India developing indigenous artillery guns - India - DNA

With the army failing in its attempts to induct new artillery guns in the last 25 years, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has started developing an indigenous 155mm 52 calibre howitzer for the armed forces.

Armament Research and Development Establishment, the DRDO's lab in Pune, has already started working on developing indigenous artillery guns for the armed forces, senior DRDO officials said.

Other DRDO laboratories will also be involved in the programme but ARDE will be the lead agency for it, they said.

The officials said the research agency had started working on the development of the Bhim self-propelled howitzer about a decade back but the project was virtually scrapped after South African firm Denel was blacklisted by the ministry.

Despite several attempts, cancellation of tenders due to various reasons has not allowed the army to induct any new artillery gun in the last 25 years after the controversy surrounding the Bofors guns snow-balled into a big political issue since the late 80s.

Even the recently issued global tender for procuring 400 guns has run into rough weather, with one of the main contenders Bofors deciding to pull out of the deal.

As part of its over Rs 20,000-crore artillery modernisation plan, the Army is looking at inducting several types of howitzers through inter-governmental pacts and global tenders.

The army presently uses a mix of 105mm field guns and 130mm and 155mm howitzers.

 

[indian_blues]

God we can make fighter jets but not artillery guns, even a prototype in 60 years? NO

 

[bhramos]

God we can make fighter jets but not artillery guns, even a prototype in 60 years? NO

we can make, but if we start the work, India never started work on it, so couldnt make in 60yrs......