Indian Army Artillery

[black eagle]

For the time being it looks like the artillery game is heading downhill....

 

[black eagle]

If M777 failed IA should give a Second Chance to ST Kinetics Pegasus 155/39cal Light Gun, It is very well known that no other in the same row..



Pegasus 155MM / 39CAL
Some Pics i took during Def-expo 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLWH_Pegasus

This firm has already been blacklisted by the govt & the CBI. It's not in Army's hands to give them another chance. The Govt has to take that call. the army can only make a formal request to the govt to allow them to participate in the trials. Or they can lobby for the firm within the MoD, which is highly unlikely.

 

[black eagle]

Howitzer deal put on hold till Army files report

The Ministry of Defence has sought answers from the Army on the leak of the trial report of ultra light howitzers as an embarrassed A K Antony on Tuesday sought to reassure that acquisitions would not be allowed to be manipulated.

This is the second case in recent months when documents relating to a high-ticket deal came out of the realm of secrecy exposing vulnerability of acquisition process in which billions are at stake. In the first case, the MoD itself was responsible when a file relating to IAF's multi-role combat jet contract was found roadside. Though inquiry revealed the file did not contain any confidential information that could have jeopardised an estimated $11 billion deal, it established that rules of handling sensitive documents were flouted.

The Defence Minister has now asked its official to be more careful. The MoD officials said howitzer acquisition process would come to a halt until conclusion of Army's high level probe. This meant yet another setback for Army's plan to add new artillery to compensate for gun drought since Bofors scandal broke out.

In January, Army chief V K Singh had hoped that 145 M777 ultra-light howitzers, manufactured by BAE Systems and offered through the foreign military sales by the US for $647 million, would be acquired within this year. The Army officials tried to explain that the five pages from a comprehensive trial report were not enough to give an impression about the results.

During the trials, Indian ammunition was fired from the guns, said officials. What has come to light is the fact that by circulating unsigned papers, an attempt was being made to get the contract scrapped. A similar attempt was made around three months ago when some media persons received unsigned documents claiming that the M777 deal should not be finalised as the gun was not required by the Army.

The government had decided to take the US offer of direct sale after another vendor, Singapore Technologies, was black-listed on allegations of corruption.



http://expressbuzz.com/nation/howitzer-deal-put-on-hold-till-army-files-repor/248477.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

india should first remove the denel from blacklisted list and import the best artillery gun in the world-g6 which holds the record of shooting 75km.pegasus is also a good gun.i really see not point in buying the fh-77 again because the ofb already has tot to manufacture it and has upgraded some of the existing 45 caliber guns to 52 caliber.also if every firm is blackisted then IA should go for something like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/31/Koalitsiya-SV.jpg/789px-Koalitsiya-SV.jpg
ussia has revealed a new 152mm gun, with two barrels, vertically stacked. Unlike the smaller Gast-type guns in Russian service (GSh-23, GSh-30, 2A38M) the mechanisms are not mechanically linked, but they are connected through the hydraulic recoil system, and fire alternately. This principle is called the 'boxer' system. It is being developed by the Federal State Unitary Enterprise (FSUE) TsceNII 'Burevestnik' in cooperation with public corporations NPO 'BTA', FSUE 'Uraltransmash', FSUE 'TsceNIIM', and FSUE 'Uralvagonzavod'.

This gun has initially been developed for an army SPG, based on the 'object 195' tank chassis and called the 'Koalitcia-SV' ('coalition'). In this form, the gun has a 50-round automatic loader (the turret is unmanned) and can fire at about 15-18 rpm. It is expected to enter service in 2007.

There is also a proposed naval version, possibly intended as a replacement for the AK-130. It is reportedly being developed by Arsenal (although that is not confirmed) and will use a 'stealth' cupola.

The range with existing ammunition is about 50 km, but NIIP is developing a new round capable of up to 70 km.

 

[JBH22]

The blacklisting of Denel was a big gaffe they should have carried on with negotiations to secure domestic production btw there was some report about Zuzana what its status TIA?

This gun has initially been developed for an army SPG, based on the 'object 195' tank chassis and called the 'Koalitcia-SV' ('coalition'). In this form, the gun has a 50-round automatic loader (the turret is unmanned) and can fire at about 15-18 rpm. It is expected to enter service in 2007.

This along BMD-4 has been frozen Russian MoD no longer needs it,btw why 2 cannons we need only 1 but a good one

 

[Kunal Biswas]

pegasus is also a good gun.i really see not point in buying the fh-77 again because the ofb already has tot to manufacture it and has upgraded some of the existing 45 caliber guns to 52 caliber.also if every firm is blackisted then IA should go for something like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/31/Koalitsiya-SV.jpg/789px-Koalitsiya-SV.jpg
ussia has revealed a new 152mm gun, with two barrels, vertically stacked. Unlike the smaller Gast-type guns in Russian service (GSh-23, GSh-30, 2A38M) the mechanisms are not mechanically linked, but they are connected through the hydraulic recoil system, and fire alternately. This principle is called the 'boxer' system. It is being developed by the Federal State Unitary Enterprise (FSUE) TsceNII 'Burevestnik' in cooperation with public corporations NPO 'BTA', FSUE 'Uraltransmash', FSUE 'TsceNIIM', and FSUE 'Uralvagonzavod'.

The range with existing ammunition is about 50 km, but NIIP is developing a new round capable of up to 70 km.

OFB is updating 39cal to 45cal not 52cal.


The project Koalitsiya was closed, It was Intended for export also to rearm Russian Army, It was available in 155mm too..
The project was closed along with many projects including T-95..

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

is the drdo developing an indegeneous 155 mm gun for bhim?i think drdo should definately try something similar to russian twin barell 152mm.it is indeed a great concept and has a firing rate of 15-18 rpm which is similar to mlrs systems like smerch.also can someone tell me whether the 155mm self propelled howitzer be used in direct fire more against enemy tanks and icv.if yes is it's range less than 120mm tank guns like l-55?also how much better is an 155mm round compared to a 120mm round when used in direct fire mode?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

is the drdo developing an indegeneous 155 mm gun for bhim?i think drdo should definately try something similar to russian twin barell 152mm.it is indeed a great concept and has a firing rate of 15-18 rpm which is similar to mlrs systems like smerch.also can someone tell me whether the 155mm self propelled howitzer be used in direct fire more against enemy tanks and icv.if yes is it's range less than 120mm tank guns like l-55?also how much better is an 155mm round compared to a 120mm round when used in direct fire mode?

DRDO working on a towed, If successful than it may be mounted on Bhim, Right now we are struggling for a 52cal barrel..

Further Army will not except such Ideas as Russian dropped such Ideas itself ( MAIN reason Funds ) , Army requirement is a simple 155/52cal SPGH ( No-One like new Ideas )..


DRDO & other do not work on its own, If requested than only..



Yes, It can be used for Direct fire mode, But a SPGH FCS is not deigned for tank vs tank warfare hence its not accurate as a tank`s FCS..
Their is no problem with range, rather SPGH have longer range coz of more charge compare to a tank`s round..

Offtopic:
Tank round is different: APDFS / HEAT / HE / HESH ( It carry two types of round for tanks and personals separately )
SPGH round : HE / HE-FRAG / Cluster / Precision guided Ammunition Eg: laser, GPS guided rounds..

155mm HE on a direct impact with a T-72/80/90/TYPEs will destroy it or disable it, But again SPGH`s FCS is not deigned for such role..
Their are Tanks ( Prototype in both east & west mounted with 140mm & 152mm )

These are prototypes because of several reason one primary is present Gun and Ammunition is enough for today`s threads..

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

what exactly is a hybrid armour? it was recently published in a press article that drdo has succesfully developed a hybrid armour.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

what exactly is a hybrid armour? it was recently published in a press article that drdo has succesfully developed a hybrid armour.

Give a look here:

http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=9558&page=31

@Shuvo, keep this thread to arty only..

 

[sandeepdg]

I think buying anything other than the Denel or ST Kinetics howitzers will be a bad decision for IA. I hope they convince the government or do anything feasible so that they acquire only quality weapons, and not something like the unnecessary hyped FH-77s.

 

[sinnerforever31]

THE PROBLEM WITH US, IS THAT WE WANT TO HAVE THE MOON, N R NOT EVEN READY to pay pebbles for it. pl rem, all decisions are simply based on economic factors, nothing else.so, no matter which gun is the best, the ones to reach us would be from the company which has greased the hands of the gen in the arty directorate, the babus in the def ministry, the pmo sectt, n the def mins. another thing, the way we move, it takes 10 years for the expression of interest(eoi) to go out, receipt of responses, further floating of tenders, not to mention the space age gsqrs demanded, replies, further trials results, meeting of last hour desirables, n thousand of other deliberations before any eqpt is recommended. now again, will start a process which is going to push us futher back in our acquisitions, since we still cannot produce any of our own.

 

[black eagle]

Army chief to visit US next week; howitzer deal to figure in talks

Army chief General V K Singh will be visiting the US next week to further enhance the already robust bilateral military ties between the two countries.

During the six-day visit, the Indian Army's proposed procurement of 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers, which India is to buy from the US in a direct government-to-government deal worth $647 million, will figure high on the agenda.

The Indian armed forces also want to engage more deeply with US military's Central Command (Centcom), which oversees the crucial Af-Pak and Iraq-Iran regions, rather than being just restricted to ties with the Pacific Command (Pacom), which looks after the Asia-Pacific region.

The Army, of course, wants to get rid of its long-festering Bofors ghost by inducting the M-777 guns, which will be its first-ever acquisition of 155mm howitzers since the infamous scandal in the mid-1980s completely derailed its artillery modernisation plan.

But, as reported earlier, the induction plan has been hit by some controversies. For one, the M-777 howitzers, manufactured by BAE Systems (which now owns the original Bofors company), did not apparently do too well in the trials conducted at the Pokhran field firing ranges and high-altitude areas in Sikkim in November-December. For another, the field evaluation report of the trials conducted by the Army had "leaked'' to outside parties.


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=14479

 

[nitesh]

http://frontierindia.net/indian-army-to-get-2-new-gun-systems
Indian Army to get 2 new gun systems

Indian Defence Minister A K Antony stated in the Parliament that two new gun systems are expected to be inducted into the Indian Army.

Replying to a question in the Lok Sabha yesterday, he said "two new gun systems are expected to be inducted during the 11th Plan."

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Bofors - 155 / 45cal

M777 - 155 / 39CAL

 

[Patriot]

http://frontierindia.net/indian-army-to-get-2-new-gun-systems
Indian Army to get 2 new gun systems

Kunal Sir, which are these two gun systems. The one is under trail is M777 155mm. Are we going to repeat the order to bofors(BAE) 155mm-45cal? Even the trial report of M-777 is under controversy before coming out!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal Sir, which are these two gun systems. The one is under trail is M777 155mm. Are we going to repeat the order to bofors(BAE) 155mm-45cal? Even the trial report of M-777 is under controversy before coming out!!

155 /45cal is simply an upgrade to existing Bofors 155mm /39cal by OFB 155mm / 45cal barrel, The upgrade kit was originally Soltam deign which is re-modified by OFB to upgrade Bofors right now..

M-777 failed in some criteria over Indian terrain, Unfortunately we don't know what are those fields, but it looks like we don't have much choice, as ST-kinetic is black listed, So M-777 is the only replacement for IFG-105mm at High altitudes, But i hope it can use OFB /DRDO deigned Ammunition..

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

are you sure that antony meant 2 artillery gun systems?it could also be 2 infantry gun system which the drdo is working on.

 

[ALBY]

kunal sir,during kargil war i had seen the picture of a type of howister of indian army in news papers of that time... but after that i didnt find the pic of it any army thread or any info about in it in wiki also...but i found that howister with british army during iraq war....its written that it was of 105mm/115mm calibre..so can you please identify that gun...