Indian Army Artillery

Kunal Biswas

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The Zuzana 155mm Self Propelled Gun Howitzer is artillery gun for using of 155 mm ammunition, which is part of equipment of NATO states. Because of the long gun-range, cadence, accuracy fire, mechanization of service operations, system of fire control and manoeuvrability this Howitzer comes under group of the most modern guns in the world. This gun is intended for demolition of tactical, explorational and firing instruments of enemy, for destruction of constant and field defence works, tanks and another armed targets by direct fire or by blind fire. The Howitzer is equipped by system of fire control, connecting mechanism, cross-country navigation and wherewithalls for calculation of ballistics and diagnostics.


 
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Armand2REP

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Not much modern about it, it is based on the Soviet Dana.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Not much modern about it, it is based on the Soviet Dana.
Its Good, 155mm Gun with Armour protection and weight under 28tons, not to mention Auto-loader and computerized fire-control system, and unique abt it its gun exhaust is not connected with crew chamber.. ..

And most importantly it use the same TATRA chassis as all BEML 8X8 tatra have..


Its Very Good!
 

Armand2REP

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Its Good, 155mm Gun with Armour protection and weight under 28tons, not to mention Auto-loader and computerized fire-control system, and unique abt it its gun exhaust is not connected with crew chamber.. ..

And most importantly it use the same TATRA chassis as all BEML 8X8 tatra have..

Its Very Good!
It is very obsolete. The FCS for NLOS fire from it is terribly inaccurate so it is used primarily in direct fire mode. The user interface looks like a dinosaur from the late 80s. It doesn't support ER shells or auto fuses. It doesn't have GPS linked digital fire control or mapping. It has no BMS or position finder. Radios are from the end of the Cold War. Tatra chassis is ok, but it is still outdated to what is available, poor fuel economy, PW ratio, outdated transmission. Compared to Renault 8x8s anyway.
 

Kunal Biswas

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It is very obsolete. The FCS for NLOS fire from it is terribly inaccurate so it is used primarily in direct fire mode. The user interface looks like a dinosaur from the late 80s. It doesn't support ER shells or auto fuses. It doesn't have GPS linked digital fire control or mapping. It has no BMS or position finder. Radios are from the end of the Cold War. Tatra chassis is ok, but it is still outdated to what is available, poor fuel economy, PW ratio, outdated transmission. Compared to Renault 8x8s anyway.
I believe you have some strong source to support these claims..
 

Armand2REP

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Its Good, 155mm Gun with Armour protection and weight under 28tons, not to mention Auto-loader and computerized fire-control system, and unique abt it its gun exhaust is not connected with crew chamber.. ..

And most importantly it use the same TATRA chassis as all BEML 8X8 tatra have..


Its Very Good!
It is a light modernisation of the 70s Dana. It has changed from a 152mm Warsaw barrel to a 155mm NATO. The NLOS fires are terribly inaccurate so it is used in direct fire mode nearly all of the time. The higher NLOS angles are absorbed entirely by the suspension which wears it out quickly and makes holding a fire lock on target difficult. The user interface is a relict from the late eighties and so is its FCS. It doesn't support ER and auto fuse rounds. It has no BMS or GPS receiver. The FCS isn't tied into GPS and its INS DT CEP is over 1%, which translates into crap over 8km.

Tatra 8x8s are OK, but they burn more fuel, get less horses, and use outdated transmissions compared to other models. With a weight of 29t, it is not highly mobile in rough terrain.
 

Kunal Biswas

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It is a light modernization of the 70s Dana. It has changed from a 152mm Warsaw barrel to a 155mm NATO. The NLOS fires are terribly inaccurate so it is used in direct fire mode nearly all of the time. The higher NLOS angles are absorbed entirely by the suspension which wears it out quickly and makes holding a fire lock on target difficult. The user interface is a relict from the late eighties and so is its FCS. It doesn't support ER and auto fuse rounds. It has no BMS or GPS receiver. The FCS isn't tied into GPS and its INS DT CEP is over 1%, which translates into crap over 8km.

Tatra 8x8s are OK, but they burn more fuel, get less horses, and use outdated transmissions compared to other models. With a weight of 29t, it is not highly mobile in rough terrain.


1. How is the terrible accuracy and how much it miss the target by inches/meters from what respective range..

2. This SPGH have Hydrolic stand to support thier own weight and the shock, therfore no qestion abt suspention for wheels..

Rest of your quarry doesn't make sence, unless you show some article or link to support what u claim, same for the above post no :511
 

Armand2REP

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I believe you have some strong source to support these claims..
Personal experience, I worked in the Ministerstvo obrany (MoD) as a contract negotiator for Verejne (procurement). Any request for spares from Russia or CIS states came across my desk. I am quite familiar with the Dana as these parts are in short supply. Got to know the Zuzana with all the dealings with Tatra for rear suspension replacements.


1. How is the terrible accuracy and how much it miss the target by inches/meters from what respective range..
If you incline the barrel to NLOS fires, accuracy is degraded to ****. Can't say for security reasons. The INS isn't by GPS reference but human operator, the optics are bad enough that it makes for many errors in position calculation. It is much easier to drive close enough for direct fire and do it that way. That is practically all the Armada uses it for.

2. This SPGH have Hydrolic stand to support thier own weight and the shock, therfore no qestion abt suspention for wheels..
It has two pistons centre position either side, when a gun fires the shock doesn't travel straight down but to the opposite direction of fire. There is nothing there to absorb it but the rear suspension of the chassis. The pedestals have little surface area and the fact it is hydraulic means little. It is again going to the chassis, that is why when you watch it fire, the muzzle pops up and the rear slams down. It wrecks the suspension.

Rest of your quarry doesn't make sence, unless you show some article or link to support what u claim, same for the above post no :511
Unfortunately Konstrukta doesn't provide any information about its components. They don't do it because it is an outdated piece of trash. For the Tatra-Renault comparison, just view any 8x8 fact sheet.
 

Kunal Biswas

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If you incline the barrel to NLOS fires, accuracy is degraded to ****. Can't say for security reasons. The INS isn't by GPS reference but human operator, the optics are bad enough that it makes for many errors in position calculation. It is much easier to drive close enough for direct fire and do it that way. That is practically all the Armada uses it for.
@Armand
I need technical info..

It has two pistons centre position either side, when a gun fires the shock doesn't travel straight down but to the opposite direction of fire. There is nothing there to absorb it but the rear suspension of the chassis. The pedestals have little surface area and the fact it is hydraulic means little. It is again going to the chassis, that is why when you watch it fire, the muzzle pops up and the rear slams down. It wrecks the suspension.











I guess u should give a look again...
 
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Yatharth Singh

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Future Artillery India - 20th-22nd June, New Delhi, India

Increasing the Range, Lethality and Accuracy of India's Artillery Forces Though Procuring Cutting Edge Artillery Systems and Precision Munition Technology Building upon the success of our flagship Future Artillery conference in Europe, Defence IQ's Future Artillery India 2011 conference will focus exclusively on the Indian Defence Community as it undergoes one of the largest artillery modernization programmes in the world.

Designed to bring you the latest technological updates and crucial operational feedback, the event is also an opportunity to network with key decision makers, senior representatives of the defence industry and some of the foremost artillery experts from around the world.

Key topics to be discussed include:
The Necessity for Indian Armed Forces Artillery Modernization: The Current Threat and How to Counter it
Revolutionising the Indian Armed Forces' Artillery Capability Over the next 15-20 Years: The Strategy for Modernization
Improving Efficiency and Reducing the Time Taken to Procure New Artillery Systems: The Impact of the Revised DPP 2008
Developing a Longer Range, Precision Capability to Reduce Collateral Damage and Increase Lethality

View the full agenda athttp://www.futureartilleryindia.com/

Don't miss this opportunity to gain insight into one of the world's largest artillery modernization programmes, as well as explore the latest technological and operational developments in precision munitions, C-RAM and Surveillance and Target Acquisition.

Register online athttp://www.futureartilleryindia.com/ or contact us directly at [email protected] or +44(0)207 368 9300.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4976
 

black eagle

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BAE has hopes for sales of 145 field guns to India


HOPES are growing that Barrow's arms factory will win an order for 145 hi-tech howitzers.
The Indian army is trying out the ultra-lightweight Field Howitzer, or M777, conceived and designed in Barrow, which has sold in the hundreds to America.

And the prestigious India Defence website, aimed at professionals in the defence industry, says BAE is in the lead to get gun orders worth more than a year's work from the Indian government.

The Barrow plant is where the complex titanium cradles and saddles of the guns are made.

The guns are made in the UK and in the US, where they are assembled in a BAE factory in Mississippi using an American barrel.

The Indian Defence internet website says BAE is leading the race to win the contract for 145 guns.

The gun sections in Barrow are produced at the rate of 10-a-month.

The Barrow factory employs nearly 400 people, many of whom work on the M777 project.
So far around 900 guns have been sold, with the bulk going to America, but they are also manufactured for Canada and Australia.

BAE is also hoping for sales of the M777 to Denmark, Brazil and the Middle East.

Although the gun, designed in Barrow in the late 1980s has been a big success, more orders are needed at Barrow.

By last autumn 955 guns had been ordered but 750 had been delivered and new orders are needed to keep the production line going.

The India Defence website says: "India is already in an advanced stage of negotiations with the US for procuring over 145 ultra-light howitzers for their deployment in mountainous regions."

The Indian army is also looking for other types of guns.

There is speculation the expected Indian order for 145 M777s could potentially grow to 400.

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/bae-h...eld-guns-to-india-1.806318?referrerPath=2.935
 

black eagle

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Artillery: RFPs out finally


By Gulshan Luthra

The Indian Army has begun the process for acquiring heavy guns yet again, floating tenders for both the Towed and Tracked systems within January 2011.


The tender for the Towed gun was issued on January 28 while for the Tracked version, it was issued mid-January.

Sources said that several vendors, from France, US, Britain, Israel and Czechoslovakia and other countries, were invited but no details of the tender specifications were available as they are generally secret anyway in accordance with General Staff Qualitative Requirements (GSQRs).

India had earlier cancelled its Request for Proposal (RfP) for 1,580 towed guns (155mm, 52 calibre), as well as for tracked Guns over allegations of corruption involving one company or another. That set back the Army's artillery modernisation programme by three to five years over and above the ten-year long delay in the process.

But the good news is that the summer and winter field trials of the ultralight gun, BAE Systems M 777 A1, have been completed successfully at the Pokhran range and now some negotiations are to be conducting for acquiring 145 of them from the US Government under its Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme. The 155mm/45 caliber gun, which can be slung-carried by heavy lift helicopters like the Boeing Chinook, or ferried by heavy trucks, is to be deployed in the mountains.

The process to acquire this type of gun was initiated in 2006.US Congressional clearance, a mandatory requirement, has already been given and the gun could be in the Indian Army's inventory within a couple of years after the contract is signed. Made partly of titanium, the gun is about40 per cent lighter than the earlier versions in operation, and is being used extensively in Afghanistan by the US Army.

It has digital controls, can be move quickly after firing, and can deliver munitions up to 40 km. There would be limitations of terrain in the mountains however.

It may be recalled that the artillery had played a decisive role in demolishing Pakistani positions that they had intruded into in Kargil in the 1999 war. But somehow, thanks to the allegations of corruption over the acquisition of 400 Bofors FH 77B (155mm/39 caliber) guns from Sweden in the mid-1980s, the Indian Army has not been able to renew its inventory. The Bofors guns though played havoc with the Pakistanis.
Pakistan however has has acquired M-109 A5 155mm howitzers meanwhile from the United States.

The Indian Army needs to phase out all its medium and field guns, although there is a proposal to upgun the Soviet vintage 130 mm guns into 155 mm guns by replacing the barrel. Israel's Soltam had assisted in this process with the barrles but only some of the guns have been upgunned, and their results are reported to be very good.

While there is no plan to make the ultralight gun in India, both the other proposals involve part purchase and part Transfer of Technology to make them in India. BAE Systems for this has tied up with the Mahindras, and the Czech with the state-run BEML.

The emphasis on the acquisition now is to go in for ToT, and then make the guns indigenously rather than under licence, the latter option inevitably coming with some restrictions.

It may be pointed out that the French have offered to give all the technology if India buys the Ceasar, described by French officials as "the best and most modern gun" now successfully being used in Afghanistan. They say that this gun can meet both the tracked and towed requirements.

Notably, all the guns with the Indian Army's Artillery Regiment are obsolete, and it goes to its credit that despite this limitations, it keeps them in ready to fire position. Old Bofors, the (not so light) Light Field Gun, and the Soviet M 46 medium guns are in this obsolete list.

There is progress though on the rocket artillery with the indigenous Pinaka and Russian Smerch Multi Barrel Rocket Launchers (MBRLs) having been inducted.

One hopes this time, the RFP is replied to, the trials are held as required, the deal is done in time, and the guns are delivered ASAP. Artillery plays a potent, battle-winning role and its modernization cannot be delayed any further.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories890.htm
 

slenke

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It is very obsolete. The FCS for NLOS fire from it is terribly inaccurate so it is used primarily in direct fire mode. The user interface looks like a dinosaur from the late 80s. It doesn't support ER shells or auto fuses. It doesn't have GPS linked digital fire control or mapping. It has no BMS or position finder. Radios are from the end of the Cold War. Tatra chassis is ok, but it is still outdated to what is available, poor fuel economy, PW ratio, outdated transmission. Compared to Renault 8x8s anyway.
Maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but how good is it compared to the Ceasar and the Archer?
 

Kunal Biswas

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But the good news is that the summer and winter field trials of the ultralight gun, BAE Systems M 777 A1, have been completed successfully at the Pokhran range and now some negotiations are to be conducting for acquiring 145 of them from the US Government under its Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme. The 155mm/39 calibre , which can be slung-carried by heavy lift helicopters like the Boeing Chinook, or ferried by heavy trucks, is to be deployed in the mountains.

The Indian Army needs to phase out all its medium and field guns, although there is a proposal to upgun the Soviet vintage 130 mm guns into 155 mm guns by replacing the barrel. Israel's Soltam had assisted in this process with the barrles but only some of the guns have been upgunned, and their results are reported to be very good.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories890.htm

Gun news for M46 up-gradation..
Hopefully we will chose FH-2000 or Fh-77/52cal..

But Army should upgrade M46 immediately, The RFI may be released again but results are always in serious doubt..
 

black eagle

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Bofors guns may now be made in India


The gun that blazed a trail of controversy may be finally made at home. It is likely that the OFB would get an order from Indian Army for making the 155x45 mm Bofors-type howitzers. This is the same specification purchased by the Indian army amidst all the controversy in mid-1980s. At the same time, the army has floated global tenders for the higher version of 155 X 52 mm caliber guns.

Director general (DG) of OFB D M Gupta told TOI certain formalities pertaining to the order were yet to be finalised. He was in city to attend a conference of of workers on quality management. The guns would be made using a transfer of technology (TOT) agreement already in place with the Swedish original equipment maker AB Bofors after the guns were purchased.

The order is expected to be placed in a couple of months. The OFB is hopeful because the order may be placed on nomination basis meaning there would be no other contender, added a senior official in this organisation. The TOT agreement that the OFB had entered into allows it to make the spares as well further strengthen its case. The OFB already has the set-up and the government has a policy of encouraging indigenous production if there is capacity, added the DG.

If the order is bagged, this would be for the first time that such guns would be entirely made in India. The production was expected to be undertaken at the Gun Carriage Factory at Jabalpur, which makes the 105mm Indian Field Guns, the only indigenously developed howitzers. Earlier, the factory had upgraded the existing 155x45 guns purchased from Sweden to 155x52 mm as well as the 130 mm guns to 155 mm, added a source. However, fresh order is expected only for making the 155x45 mm gun as global tenders have been floated for 155x52 mm guns.

Howitzers are identified by their barrel diameter. In case of 155x45 mm the first figure (155) refers to the diameter of the barrel while second (45) is indicates length of barrel is 45 times that of diameter. This fires a shell up to 30 kms while the 155X52 mm has the range of 40 kms.

The OFB would also be undertaking a programme of increasing production of Pinaka rockets that have a range of over 35 km, said Gupta. Without divulging the figures, he said the capacity would be more than doubled. "There were problems relating to its functioning in cold areas which have been sorted out and soon a programme of scaling up the production will be undertaken. Similar initiatives will be undertaken for augmenting production of shells for T-90 and Arjun tanks too. Other expansion programmes entailing Rs 2,000 crore are also awaiting approval of the government," he added.

Gupta said this financial year, the OFB would be clocking a 29% rise in turnover at Rs 11,208 crore as against Rs 8715 crore in previous fiscal.


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=14374
 

shuvo@y2k10

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what the hell was ofb doing all these years? and why doesn't it go for 52 caliber? the ofb should have by now produced atleast 12000-14000 guns by now to counter 25000 guns+mortars(as per wikipaedia) the procurement process may be delayed again.the range differerence between 45 and 52 caliber is about 10km sufficient enough to go for latter.
 

Kunal Biswas

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what the hell was ofb doing all these years? and why doesn't it go for 52 caliber? the ofb should have by now produced atleast 12000-14000 guns by now to counter 25000 guns+mortars(as per wikipaedia) the procurement process may be delayed again.the range differerence between 45 and 52 caliber is about 10km sufficient enough to go for latter.
Their are lots of things involved, Home Industries were never asked abt 52cal but recently, 45cal was originally a Soltam barrel for updating M46, Accrued only when MOD & Army brass gave a green to go, it purchased coz it was available in cheap and quick, later the clone was developed but a breach problem with M46 and similar with FH77, Now its is working fine as per Black Eagle post #519 says..

DRDO is working on 52cal..
 

Kunal Biswas

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Some Interesting Vids On FH77










4rnds in 30sec..


Enjoy!
 
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shuvo@y2k10

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@kunal biswas

you said drdo is working on 52 cal.can you please elaborate on this.are they working on an indegeneous howitzer as reported last year.if yes what type is it-towed,ultra-light like m-777 or self-propelled(bhim)?also how good is the fh-77 155mm 45 cal when compared with other howitzers today?i know the original bofors gun had a very good reputation,a high rate of fire,and performed very well in the kargil war
 

Kunal Biswas

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@kunal biswas

you said drdo is working on 52 cal.can you please elaborate on this.are they working on an indegeneous howitzer as reported last year.if yes what type is it-towed,ultra-light like m-777 or self-propelled(bhim)?also how good is the fh-77 155mm 45 cal when compared with other howitzers today?i know the original bofors gun had a very good reputation,a high rate of fire,and performed very well in the kargil war

Its a towed 52cal of mainly targeted to replace 130mm M46..

155mm of 45cal have range of 40kms with BB, Same as 155mm of 52cal with BB..

With Ordinary ammo the range is of 52cal is 32km where 45cal is 24km..

Rate of Fire: 3 rounds in 8 seconds or 6 rounds in 25 seconds, sustained fire 6 rounds every minute for 20 minutes for 45cal as well as 52cal..


http://www.soltam.com/?CategoryID=224
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haubits_FH77/A
 
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