Indian Army Artillery

Armand2REP

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Any howitzer deal is better than the crap going on for the last 25 years.
 

JayATL

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Nothing for nothing-- India will buy weapons for decades on end in the future and will upgrade all the current new ones in the future too- I tell you companies at lest in the defense field will think twice before offering bribes anymore or risk being blacklisted . There is that silver lining for all you anti- corruption folks :)

I know there is a lot of corruption needing addressing, but I'm happy to read that some, maybe a lot of the nefarious activities are being caught?
 

AK471993

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Army goes shopping for howitzers, 25 years after Bofors deal

New Delhi: After four failed attempts in the last 25 years, the Army has issued a fresh global tender for 400 towed artillery howitzers, the first to be acquired after the controversial Bofors deal.

The ghost of Bofors controversy had been haunting the artillery modernisation process with all previous efforts to procure the guns being cancelled and the army has not been able to induct even a single new piece of howitzer since the mid 1980s.

The latest request for proposal was issued in the third week of January, army sources said, adding the deal would include procurement of over 400 guns from foreign vendors and production of over 1,000 guns indigenously in partnership with the chosen manufacturer.

The tender has been re-issued as the last one was cancelled after one of the two contenders Singapore Technologies was blacklisted by the Defence Ministry after it was named in a CBI charge sheet in the Ordnance Factory scam.

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After the blacklisting, BAE Systems was the only company left in the fray and the tender was scrapped as the Indian defence procurement rules don't allow acquisition in single vendor cases.

However, it is not yet clear as which firms other than BAE Systems have received the RFP this time.

To augment its artillery prowess, the Army is likely to procure the ultra-light howitzers this year from the United States through the foreign military sales route.

India is already in an advanced stage of negotiations with the US for procuring over 145 ultra-light howitzers for their deployment in mountainous regions.

As part of its over Rs 20,000-crore artillery modernisation plan, the Army is looking at inducting several types of howitzers through inter-governmental pacts and global tenders.

The Army Chief had also recently said that the trials for the different types of guns were expected to begin this year in summer so that their induction could take place by the end of next year.

The Army presently uses a mix of 105 mm field guns and 130 mm and 155 mm howitzers.

http://www.sify.com/news/army-goes-shopping-for-howitzers-25-years-after-bofors-deal-news-national-lbxlkuiidfg.html
 

Anshu Attri

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India makes ready to match PLA firepower


http://www.dailypioneer.com/312885/India-makes-ready-to-match-PLA-firepower.html

In an effort to meet the challenge of growing military might of China, the Government has given the nod to some key projects, including creation of a new artillery division, a special forces unit and purchase of three aircraft for long-range reconnaissance.

The raising of a new artillery division (each division has more than 200 long-range guns) will be completed by the end of 2011 while the special forces unit, also to be raised and trained in the same time span, will aim to perform strategic role behind enemy lines in case of hostility. The three reconnaissance aircraft will be acquired, most probably from Israel, by the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO), sources said.

The nod for these crucial steps came two weeks back, sources said, adding that the artillery division and the special forces unit will work alongside two mountain divisions which were created last year. Each division has 10,000 soldiers and they are specially trained for mountain warfare on the eastern front.

The process of equipping them with state-of-the-art equipment was in progress, sources said, adding that the new artillery division would also be equipped with ultra-light howitzers.

Incidentally, India has two artillery divisions at present and needs to urgently acquire new long-range guns as the present arsenal is outdated. The artillery needs more than 1,000 guns and it would cost about `20,000 crore. However, the Army has not bought a new artillery gun in the last 20 years in the wake of the Bofors controversy.

As regards the special forces unit, the battalion strength group (1,000 men) will be trained for destroying logistical lines, electricity plants and other war-supporting efforts behind enemy lines.

Explaining the significance of this unit, officials said it would work in close coordination with intelligence agencies and used as a "national asset". The trained commandos of this unit will carry out strategic strikes.

The Army currently has seven special forces battalions and most of these are engaged in counter-insurgency and counter-terrorist operations in Jammu & Kashmir and the north-east.

However, their counterparts in the US, UK and Russia are deployed for much more sensitive and crucially important strategic assignments and New Delhi has also decided to go the same way.

The need for the exercise arose after the Chinese Army conducted a military exercise, Stride, in 2009. This exercise showed the capabilities of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) in launching a focused attack using the artillery and special forces unit in mountain warfare.

India, at that point, lacked those capabilities and the Government, therefore, gave the go-ahead for acquiring "matching capabilities", sources said.
 

black eagle

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Anshu Attri

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are these going to searchers or herons for the NTRO??
may be IAI EITAN



General characteristics
Crew: none
Capacity: 2,000 kg (4,400 lb) payload[15]
Max takeoff weight: 4,650 kg (10,250 lb)
Length: 14.00 m (46 ft in)
Wingspan: 26.00 m (86 ft in)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney PT6A, 900 kW (1,200 hp) each
Performance
Range: 7,400+[15] km (4,600+ miles)
Endurance: 36 hours 0 min
Service ceiling: 13,700 m (40,000 Ft ft)
 

Kunal Biswas

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In an effort to meet the challenge of growing military might of China, the Government has given the nod to some key projects, including creation of a new artillery division, a special forces unit and purchase of three aircraft for long-range reconnaissance.
Good move..
But their is a long way to go..

But what the meant by 3 Aircrafts, I guess three squadrons..

Range: 7,400+[15] km (4,600+ miles)
Endurance: 36 hours 0 min
Service ceiling: 13,700 m (40,000 Ft ft)
I hope it is, otherwise Heron is also gud for now..
 
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Godless-Kafir

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Off all the things DRDO cant produce the Artillery Gun is one that they can and should have thought about it a long time ago!! It is not half as difficult as makeing an Helicopter or an fighter jet or even an IRMB! So it has always amused me how this has fallen short of DRDOs radar. They should go ahead and manufacture it asap.
 

bengalraider

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This competition is a farce the writing is on the wall for all to see, the M777 is the gun we will buy period.There is a rhino in the room where Weapon suppliers to India sit gentlemen; that rhino is The US of A.
Not that i dispute the decision there is no better weapon available off the shelf at the moment,also none that has been battle tested as extensively.
 

Kunal Biswas

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The better do quick, PLA is making M777 copies and replacing its older D30s..
 

gogbot

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Off all the things DRDO cant produce the Artillery Gun is one that they can and should have thought about it a long time ago!! It is not half as difficult as makeing an Helicopter or an fighter jet or even an IRMB! So it has always amused me how this has fallen short of DRDOs radar. They should go ahead and manufacture it asap.
India made Artillery Guns long ago

Indian Field Gun 105mm


Light Field Gun 105mm


They are currently being phased out by the army.

My guess Army did not take to it much and were opposed to DRDO ever taking up the project again.
Imports would have been preferred , can;t fault them on this much it was a different scenario back then.

DRDO only came in recently pitch their own modern artillery last year , Built using the same tech and expertise as the Arjun 125mm Gun , as well as the IFG and LFG.
But in all likely hood its many years away.
 

Kunal Biswas

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India made Artillery Guns long ago

Indian Field Gun 105mm


They are currently being phased out by the army.

But in all likely hood its many years away.
True..
But still Indian Arty consist of 105 & 130mm cannon..

Lets for for the best coz we don't have other option..
 

shuvo@y2k10

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the drdo has full ability to build a 52 cal 155m artillery gun.the arjun 120mm tank gun is a very good gun and the drdo has past experience in building ifg.the problem is drdo is a government agency and it can only work in those projects which have government sanctions.the army was never interested in drdo made 155m gun and it only preffered foreign guns which became a taboo for succesive governments after the bofors scam. now the wiki says the pla alreay has 25000+guns and mortars with about 14000 artillery guns(not sure).thus it is time to induct guns(foreign or indegeneous) in thousands and not in hundreds and that too when facing a two-progned war.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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the wiki says the pla alreay has 25000+guns and mortars with about 14000 artillery guns(not sure).thus it is time to induct guns(foreign or indegeneous) in thousands and not in hundreds and that too when facing a two-progned war.
 

Kunal Biswas

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the wiki says the pla alreay has 25000+guns and mortars with about 14000 artillery guns(not sure).thus it is time to induct guns(foreign or indegeneous) in thousands and not in hundreds and that too when facing a two-progned war.

They have more, 14000 are mostly 122mm and 152mm of soviat copies, Recently China is replacing those with 122mm and 152mm with 155mm light and heavy..
 

black eagle

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Murky Competitions for Indian Howitzer Orders May End Soon"¦ Or Not

ndia has marked over $4 billion worth of artillery projects to purchase several hundred new 155mm howitzers. They're intended to supplement India's dwindling artillery stocks, while out-ranging and out-shooting Pakistan's self-propelled M109 155mm guns. It seemed simple enough, and in the main towed artillery competition, BAE Systems Bofors had been competing against systems from Israel's Soltam and Denel of South Africa.


Unfortunately, that competition and related artillery procurements have mostly served as cautionary tales, years-long affair filled with legal drama, accusations of corruption, and more than one re-start. Meanwhile, India's stock of operational 155mm howitzers has dwindled to around 200. In 2007, a new towed howitzer RFP was issued, and the competition was expanded. Only to crash again in 2009. Is there an end in sight to any of these competitions? Or a potential winner?

Towed Artillery Competition Saga

US-India Defense and Strategic Affairs reported on the competition in 2004, and noted that this was expected to be one of the first large defense procurement decisions made by India's new United Progressive Alliance government. The question became whether a decision could be made within that government's term(s) of office. The answer: no.
The saga is illustrative of the problems India's defense bureaucracy faced across all of its artillery competitions, as it attempts to field working products before its existing artillery systems expire.
After multiple firing trials and several years, India's towed artillery competition managed to end up without any competitors left standing. All 3 competitors (Bofors FH-77 B05, Soltam TIG 2002, Denel G5/2000) failed to meet India's accuracy specifications in 2003 trials, but all 3 improved their guns to compete again in 2004. There are reports that Soltam fell out of the race after its barrel burst during field trials, while South Africa's Denel was sidelined in 2004 and then eliminated in 2005, after the Indian government accused the manufacturer of corruption in another defense deal.


That created problems on 2 fronts. Denel's financial situation was deteriorating, and The Times of India reported that the contract may have been critical to the firm's financial survival. In hindsight, that concern was valid, but Denel managed to survive the loss. A win certainly would have made a significant difference, and might have allowed Denel to delay its major corporate restructuring and associated strategic rethinking for several years.

The other problem involved India's Ministry of Defence. India's defense procurement establishment has shown an extreme risk-averse behavior and Defense India observes that when a competition devolves to a single-vendor solution, the practice is often to re-tender.
The resulting dithering was relieved when allegations that Bofors had paid INR 640 million (about $16 million) in bribes to secure the order eliminated the last contender. Bofors Defence AB had been blacklisted by India before, after allegations of kickbacks in a 1987 deal during Rajiv Gandhi's regime. That scandal had derailed a planned 1,500 gun buy, reducing it to 410 FH-77B howitzers. Fortunately for India, those guns arrived in time to become an iconic feature of the 1999 Kargil War with Pakistan.
Those accused in the Bofors case would eventually have their day in court, and win. In April 2007, India re-opened its howitzer competition again, and the passage of time had created a number of changes in its requirements and options. By November 2009, however, the mere allegation of bribery had frozen the competition again, by leaving just 1 eligible contender.
Meanwhile, the support contract with Bofors for India's in-service howitzers expired in 2001, and India's stock was believed to sit at just 200 operational 155/39 caliber guns as of January 2009.

The Other Howitzer Competitions

The competition for Indian artillery is actually several competitions.
The competition covered in the previous section involves about $1.8 billion for 400 towed 155/52 artillery guns, to be followed by production of up to 1,180 in India. Current Status: Winter and summer trials planned in 2010. BAE Bofors' FH77 is currently competing against ST Engineering's FH-2000.
About $700 million for the ultra-light 155/39 howitzer competition, covering about 140 pieces. These would be portable, towed guns. As noted above, the competition has started and stopped several times.
Current status: 5th RFP is now out. Government may be doing an end-run to buy the M777, as an emergency replacement for dwindling artillery.
About $800 million for about 100 155mm self-propelled tracked guns. The BHIM (Denel G-6 gun on Arjun tank chassis) winner was also terminated in 2006, when Denel was barred following a corruption case. Partner Bharat Earth Movers was the big loser. Another RFP in 2007 failed, as all firms were barred.
Current status: In limbo. Meanwhile, Pakistan began its own process in 2005, and bought 115 tracked M109A5 howitzers from the USA at a very cheap price.
About $900 million for 180 self-propelled wheeled guns.
Current status: Trials postponed to April 2010. RFP responses reported to leave Slovakia's 155/45 Zuzana system), vs. Germany's Rheinmetall RWG-52 155/52 system, which uses the PzH-2000 turret.



http://chaffandflare.blogspot.com/2011/01/murky-competitions-for-indian-howitzer.html
 

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