Indian Army Artillery

[Okabe Rintarou]

Myth ? Where did you get this line from ?

Dhanush is built up from TOT of Bofors.

Bharat 52 is also built from TOT which was obtained by acquisition of the company itself.

Name one technology that Athos will give us that we don't already have.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Meaning ? Encourage ? Our products ?

Both Indian guns are direct or indirect derivative of TOT from foreign manufacturers we will be getting the same with ATHOS .

Meaning when we pay it will be our product .

Enemy won't wait at the border because you want to encourage someone.

How many more TOT until we decide to buy our own?
We bought the guns initially because we didn't had the immediate need and the manufacturing capabilty was lacking on our part. Now we can manufacture our own artillery whether it be through indigenous effort, TOT, JV or plain and simple assembly.
If our indigenous system can perform 75% of that of ATHOS than I don't see the reason why we shouldn't place the order.
Kalyani and Tata are reliable specially kalyani who has achieved a lot on their own and promise more if the orders are placed.

 

[Marliii]

ATAGS will probably get the order it is just like tejus mk1a.just saw youtube video of some guy named redeffect on arjun tank and the comment section is full of pakis and european white devils mocking us.we can't even argue with guys because they will ask if its good why isn't your army ordering it?T90 is made india did it helped us in anyway?arjun mk1a is dead end there is no doubt even if order it .it irrelevant but ATAGS is not that case it has already performed well and will not be irrelevant any time soon.ATAGS should be ordered.

 

[Flying Dagger]

How many more TOT until we decide to buy our own?
We bought the guns initially because we didn't had the immediate need and the manufacturing capabilty was lacking on our part. Now we can manufacture our own artillery whether it be through indigenous effort, TOT, JV or plain and simple assembly.
If our indigenous system can perform 75% of that of ATHOS than I don't see the reason why we shouldn't place the order.
Kalyani and Tata are reliable specially kalyani who has achieved a lot on their own and promise more if the orders are placed.

In both cases Kalyani will be making it whether Bharat 52 or ATHOS

 

[Flying Dagger]

ATAGS will probably get the order it is just like tejus mk1a.just saw youtube viedeo of some guy named redeffect on arjun tank and the comment section is full of pakis and european white devils mocking us.we can't even argue with guys because they will ask if its good why isn't your army ordering it?T90 is made india did it helped us in anyway?arjun mk1a is dead end there is no doubt even if order it .it irrelevant but ATAGS is not that case it has already performed well and will not be irrelevant any time soon.ATAGS should be ordered.

We don't even own the right to modify it to have an AC on T 90 without russian permission such won't be the case with Athos. Defence req aren't fulfilled based on YouTube comments.

Chinese J-10 is Israeli Lavi their Pl 8 is python -3 their MBRLS are copy of russian while porks just paint everything green

Regarding ATAGS let DRDO cut on weight first.

Now if you want an Indian gun Bharat 52 gun is also there and is derived from the same gun Athos is derived from so it can improve on and enter production in future.

But if they are going to take more time to mature there is no harm in getting 400 Athos for the time being and give buffer to the army and may be Bharat 52 can seek help of elbit to improve on its gun which I guess they might already be doing.

 

[Suryavanshi]

In both cases Kalyani will be making it whether Bharat 52 or ATHOS

Bharat 52 offers much more than ATHOS just by being indigenous, considering the fact that they system is sourced in house we don't have to bother with any foreign entity. Any IP developed on the way will be localized and will be further help to improve the system.
I dont see any compelling reason to order ATHOS.
Might as well have ordered Gripen in place of Tejas if that's the case

 

[ladder]

No need to get hyper. The tests of Nexter, ATHOS, Archer had first occurred from 2002 to 2007. But in 2007 this RFP has been cancelled as every one of these guns failed in the GSQR parameters.
2008, RFP again got released, but apart from Elbit, no one else were able to stand it and again in 2010 the RFP got cancelled due to single vendor situation.
2011 again fresh RFP got issued and again a series of test happened.
2013 Elbit formed a JV with BF to push ATHOS in Indian market and in 2014 DRDO pushed the procurement plan further with ATAGS.

So ATHOS is a well tested platform in Indian condition.

What legal remedies does a blacklisted firm in India has?

Denel's blacklisting has been dropped by supreme court as it couldn't find any wrongdoing.

Similarly the blacklisting of STK is now over.

If this deal goes through, I expect a lot of court cases wherein, Denel will contest that they were blacklisted with a motive to make them sit-out of the compitition.

 

[vasusuman]

ATAGS will probably get the order it is just like tejus mk1a.just saw youtube video of some guy named redeffect on arjun tank and the comment section is full of pakis and european white devils mocking us.we can't even argue with guys because they will ask if its good why isn't your army ordering it?T90 is made india did it helped us in anyway?arjun mk1a is dead end there is no doubt even if order it .it irrelevant but ATAGS is not that case it has already performed well and will not be irrelevant any time soon.ATAGS should be ordered.

Agree.T90 is a good example.For fulfilling so called Part time/Emg requirement,domestic production lags behind in big way.See where is Arjun.Bulk production would have brought faster n better tanks.Russians n Koreans -we all hear TOT but actual is only assembly.Not technology we want or can not be developed in near future by ourselves. Russians have been denying tank barrel mfg TOT and Koreans also denied it.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Bharat 52 offers much more than ATHOS just by being indigenous, considering the fact that they system is sourced in house we don't have to bother with any foreign entity. Any IP developed on the way will be localized and will be further help to improve the system.
I dont see any compelling reason to order ATHOS.
Might as well have ordered Gripen in place of Tejas if that's the case

Nope, We bought Rafale... A better and proven system in small numbers.

And we know the condition of Airforce now due to the lobby which opposed import of Rafale or other fighter jet trainer etc.

And they wish the same condition for army.

 

[samsaptaka]

Sarang is upgrade of old guns Dhanush are inducted as stop gap they need to upgrade cal. And it is ATAGS vs Athos

ATAGS are still in Dev / in trials let it clear the trials and meet the army requirements first.

Athos should not be ousted completely and i wont mind having 400 guns inducted with tech transfer and then be used to improve on ATAGS weight and other issues. Remember our requirements are huge and on time delivery from two sources doesn't hurt considering the huge shortfall we are facing.

Though going full on for Athos isn't recommended we must develop our own and export it. Unless we export and earn reputation outside there is no way we can increase our square of influence on other nation.

Can someone enlighten me as to when and how long did IA trial the Athos as compared to the never ending trials of ATAGS ?

 

[Chinmoy]

Can someone enlighten me as to when and how long did IA trial the Athos as compared to the never ending trials of ATAGS ?

2002 to 2007.

 

[Trololo]

If the Bharat 52 has been qualified to be good then the same should be ordered for 400 nos till such time the ATAGS is rectified. Junk the Athos.

 

[Chinmoy]

If the Bharat 52 has been qualified to be good then the same should be ordered for 400 nos till such time the ATAGS is rectified. Junk the Athos.

Bharat-52 uses Elbit subsystems. Junk the ATHOS officially and repercussions would be felt in Bharat-52.

 

[Bleh]

 

[Trololo]

Bharat-52 uses Elbit subsystems. Junk the ATHOS officially and repercussions would be felt in Bharat-52.

No problem. Build the subsystems locally. I assume Baba is not stupid to know this.

 

[Chinmoy]

No problem. Build the subsystems locally. I assume Baba is not stupid to know this.

No. He is very clever. He dries up the hay when the sun shines.

 

[Bleh]

 

[shankyz]

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Army planning to order two to three additional regiments of the K-9 Vajra-T Self Propelled Howitzers (SPH) for deployment in mountainous areas especially Ladakh.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Indian Army planning to order two to three additional regiments of the K-9 Vajra-T Self Propelled Howitzers (SPH) for deployment in mountainous areas especially Ladakh.

This will be game changing .