Indian Army Artillery

Knowitall

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Messages
2,783
Likes
9,181
Country flag
How many do we need to replace?if the numbers are big and urgent then it makes sense.
What is urgent please batao koi mujhe what is urgent these guns will take 1-2 years to be inducted you don't induct a 1000 guns this fast.

Why can't we just buy dhanush till then.

Matlab konsa yudh ladne ja rahe ho ki aise bahane de rahe ho.
 

Cruise missile

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
Messages
1,170
Likes
5,579
Country flag
Madarchod OFB.
Business Standard has learnt that a multi-agency Failure Investigation Committee had determined that the accident was caused by defective ammunition, and the gun has been found fit to continue trials.
 

another_armchair

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
1,526
Likes
6,620
Country flag
Elbit Athos and Nexter Trajan competed in a different Artillery procurement program. The ATAGS was still a paper tiger then afaik.

Not trying to downplay the capabilities of the ATAGS here but ATAGS was never in contention.
Now, if ATAGS is indeed a proven system, in an ideal scenario, it will have to compete with Athos and displace it on all parameters. Hope everybody understands the conundrum of MoD and forces.

Elbit Athos won the 'contest' in 2019 on both performance and pricing parameters.

Now MoD can either cancel it(and end up with egg on face) or go ahead and procure the weapon system. Quite a situation here. The ATAGS has issues which have been widely covered. No merit in repeating it again. Afaik, the Athos costs about half of ATAGS, weighs less too and does not have length issues like the ATAGS as raised by the Army.

Whether the trials of ATAGS were sabotaged or the ammo was faulty is open to investigation and debate but the merits of ATHOS can't be overlooked either.

If Athos is selected, we import some guns directly from Israel and the rest would be manufactured by .. wait, Kalyani.
Same Kalyani that has fielded one version of ATAGS. The other is offered by TATA Power SED.

ATAGS on our Western and Eastern borders would be serious force multipliers.

We are ordering a ton of other goodies from them. We should tell the Israelis to excuse us on this.

IMO, if we buy 600-700 OFB Dhanush guns, we will be good for the next 10 years even during a 2 front war given our Arty gun stockpile.

Kalyani has offered an equivalent of the M-777 howitzer. Last heard, the gun was being trialed by IA. We need 100% self reliance in Arty and heavy systems and despite the nod by MoD, Govt must not let this slip away.

We are OK w.r.t Arty and can face a two front war with what we have. The 130mm are being upgunned by OFB to OFB Sharang and their performance has been excellent so far.
 

Cruise missile

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
Messages
1,170
Likes
5,579
Country flag
Army top brass and MOD is morally corrupt both them have been caught taking bribes many times in the past.
 

another_armchair

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
1,526
Likes
6,620
Country flag
ATHOS is mounted on truck whereas ATAGS is towed AFAIK indigenous truck mounted alternative doesn't exists .
No. You are mistaking it for the Elbit Atmos(truck mounted).

Aside, OFB+DRDO have offered a truck mounted Dhanush too. We should grab it tbh.

Infact, OFB had offered truck mounted variants of both 155/45mm and 155/52 mm guns.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,595
Likes
12,086
Country flag
Artillery import embargo put off, doors open for Rs 23,700 cr Israeli guns
On August 9, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) cited the Prime Minister’s Atmanirbhar Bharat (self-reliant India) initiative to ban the import of artillery guns from December 2020. Twelve days later, the MoD backtracked and allowed imports for an extra year, clearing the decks for importing up to 1,580 guns from Israeli company, Elbit Systems.

In late 2019, an MoD-constituted “Cost Negotiating Committee” (CNC) agreed a price with Elbit Systems for buying 400 towed artillery guns and building another 1,180 in India. Indian industry executives believe that postponement of the import embargo will see the MoD signing a contract with Elbit.


Indian defence entities that are cooperatively building the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS), an indigenous alternative to the Israeli gun, had welcomed the August 9 ban on importing 152-millimetre (mm), 52-calibre towed artillery guns from December 2020. With the ATAGS priced at about Rs 15 crore per gun, an order for 1,580 ATAGS would generate business worth Rs 23,700 crore for the Indian defence production eco-system.

The government’s Press Information Bureau (PIB) website carries an MoD press statement of August 9, which states: “MoD has prepared a list of 101 items for which there would be an embargo on the import beyond the timeline indicated against them.” At Serial 4 in the list of items on which the embargo begins this December is the 155-mm, 52-calibre towed artillery gun.

This embargo, however, is put off for a year by an “office memorandum” dated August 21, posted on the MoD website. This document puts a date of December 2021 for the start of the embargo on importing any 155-mm, 52-calibre towed artillery guns.

The chief executive of an Indian defence company says there could be only one possible purpose for postponing the gun import embargo by a year: To import a gun during the extra year granted for imports.

The MoD has not responded to a request for comments.

The ATAGS has been designed and developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in a public-private partnership with the Kalyani Group and Tata Power (Strategic Engineering Division). The latter is now a part of Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL), the Tata Group’s principal defence company.

“We cannot understand why the government is facilitating the import of artillery when our indigenous guns are doing so well in development,” says an official associated with the ATAGS programme.

In successive rounds of testing, the ATAGS has fired shells out to a world-record distance of over 48 km. This was achieved using special, long-range ammunition called “high explosive — base bleed”.

In comparison, most contemporary 155-mm, 52-calibre guns in service worldwide, including the Israeli Elbit Systems gun, achieve a maximum range of 40-45 km with this ammunition.

The ATAGS also possesses the unique capability of firing five-round bursts, which overwhelms the target with a large quantity of explosive before enemy soldiers can take cover inside their trenches. Other contemporary guns are designed to fire three-round bursts.

The longer range of the ATAGS comes from its larger chamber, which houses a larger quantity of high explosive propellant that shoots out the warhead further. The ATAGS chamber volume is 25 litres, compared to 23 litres in other 155-mm, 52-calibre towed guns, such as the Israeli Elbit and the French Nexter guns the military has evaluated.

In referring to a 155 mm, 52-calibre gun, the first figure denotes the “bore” of the gun, or the width of the gun barrel. The calibre relates to barrel length. The higher the calibre, the longer the barrel and the greater the gun’s range.

A third parameter is chamber size, which determines the quantity of propellent that can be used and the size of the projectile that the gun fires. A larger projectile causes more damage on the target.

The ATAGS has a major place in the army’s Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan, which envisages the acquisition of about 3,000 155-mm, 52-calibre guns. In addition, the Corps of Artillery is purchasing 155-mm, 39-calibre ultralight howitzers from BAE Systems for use in the mountains. Meanwhile Larsen & Toubro is building South Korean K-9 Vajra 155-mm, 52-calibre self-propelled artillery guns for use with tank columns.
 

vishnugupt

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
629
Likes
1,510
Country flag
OFB again:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Lots of Moron here, will go with this logic.

But on this joyful occasion I would like to wish real Heroes behind it. Congratulations to IA and Armed forces for successfully hitting the target.
 

Aaj ka hero

Has left
Banned
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
1,873
Likes
4,481
Country flag
I am thinking of more m-777 orders,these guns are more important for CHING CHING HANGI right now.
This ATHOS orders do not make any sense.
Although business standard article was scathing towards IA or Import Army precisely to say, let's see because I see more of m-777s coming.
 

vishnugupt

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
629
Likes
1,510
Country flag
How our Armed forces take trials .......

Private Player: Greetings General saab, We have brought you a brand new ATAG for trials ☺
General: Ok, anything else ??🧐
PP: No sir.
General: are you sure??😠
PP: We have built you very fine gun which is incorporated with latest technology, it can do...blah.. blah... blah....
General: Ok, Anything else ??😡
PP: No sir, Please sir, have a field trials. The Gun is made under "AtmaNirbharBharata" banner sir🙃🙃🙃
General : Ok, Let me make you AtmaNirbhar.
PP: Please sir🥰🥰🥰
General: By the way how much Charges it can Tolerate ??😇
PP: certified for 7 Charges🙃🙃🙃
General: Ok, lets go for trials but before that I need to call my Sahayak.

On the field................. Trials going on with full swing. Fire...... Dummm, Fire..... Dummmmm. Fire....... dummmmmm.

General to PP: Are you sure you haven't brought anything else apart from gun ??
PP: No Sir, We need your blessings saaar☺
General: Look PP There is a airplane is flying in the sky ..... can you spot that for me....
PP: ok
General ( Silently ): Sahayak put 10 charges in Barrel and outdated- OFB written Shell which you have brought from junk yard.

Fire.......... Damaaaakkkkkk ..... "BAARRREEeeelllll Fat gayi Shriman"

General : Hold the trials till I finish my Inquiry 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
PP: What to do now .....Saaar. My company will be Bankrupted😭😭😭😭😭
General: Go and tell the CEO. there is a word "Kickback" which always come with parcel and you have forgotten it. Before leaving, please Hire a paid Journalist to write an article about my generosity and Commitment toward AtmNirbharBharat. Jai Hind😎😎.
 

ClawReed787

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2020
Messages
390
Likes
1,102
Country flag
I am thinking of more m-777 orders,these guns are more important for CHING CHING HANGI right now.
This ATHOS orders do not make any sense.
Although business standard article was scathing towards IA or Import Army precisely to say, let's see because I see more of m-777s coming.
Maybe Kalyani can complete their trials in time and bag the orders
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
16,971
Likes
56,369
Country flag
Which tender?

The one where Elbit Athos was selected in 2019 or was a new tender floated after that?
for any acquisition programme, there has to be atleast two contenders in the final list. Many tenders were cancelled and retendered because of this.

exception is Govt to Govt deals like Apache & M777.
 

another_armchair

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
1,526
Likes
6,620
Country flag
for any acquisition programme, there has to be atleast two contenders in the final list. Many tenders were cancelled and retendered because of this.

exception is Govt to Govt deals like Apache & M777.
There were two contenders. Elbit and Nexter. Elbit Athos was chosen after beating the Nexter Trajan in both performance and pricing.

What has a lot of people confused is the elbowing in of ATAGS which is still undergoing trials.

The ATAGS selected for trials is the Tata Power SED variant, not the ATAGS fielded by Kalyani. If ATAGS gets selected, Kalyani loses money. If Elbit Athos gets selected, its a win for Kalyani again. Plenty of jhol as usual behind the scenes.

 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top