Indian Army Artillery

Chinmoy

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Disapoint yourself because the design and parameters for the barrel have been worked out by DRDO in consultation with OFB who make the barrels..

That is why it is gone back to the drawing board...

Even L&T makes Vajra on technical parameters given by others and not making the barrels.
Logicalize yourself. If it had been design issue, the barrel burst would have happened much before. This gun has undergone trials in Sikkim and Deolali. If it had been because of design, it would have burst open long ago.

As far as Vajra is concerned, it too suffered barrel burst just days after the contract was signed in between L&T and Techwin. So did it went back to drawing board? Or was the issue got resolved without going back to drawing board?

Sorry that I am asking you to think logically here.
 

Chinmoy

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When diplomat wrote I already knew definitely yes, now the thing is we here have to get inside what the heck really happened? here in DFI, a gun that should be in SERIAL PRODUCTION by now is still going on test and test.
MY theory is those PESKY ISRAELIS and DALALS have done it.
The barrel burst is common in any artillery gun.
No FALTU IMPORT should be allowed.
A gun as beautiful as ATAGS deserve induction in mass number.
A insider HITJOB now mean A BIG ORDER WAS IN THE LOOP that's why it happened.
It performance was perfect when it achieved 48km with basic bleed explosives, if I am not wrong.
This JUGAAD that we are famous for OF USING THIS AND THAT AND HOPE IT WILL SUCCEED sorry to burst BUBBLE BUT IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING field IT IS CALLED FATIGUE AND CREEP invasion Invitation.
To begin with, ATAGS is completely new system from ground up unlike Dhanush or Sharang. So the tests are a must and whether we like it or not, it would happen. Its just 6 years old and I would not be surprised if the tests goes on for another 4 years.
As far as hit job article like this, we have seen these in past too for Tejas, ALH and other platforms. So one should not be surprised with articles like these.
 

WolfPack86

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Money burnt on faulty ammo could have bought us 100 new Howitzers, fumes Army

The Indian Army funds spent on dangerously faulty ammunition supplied by the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) over the last six years would have been enough to purchase 100 medium artillery guns. This staggering claim has been made in an internal Army report to the Ministry of Defence (MoD), excerpts of which have been accessed by India Today. Calculating the loss to the exchequer due to poor quality OFB ammunition to be Rs 960 crore between 2014 and 2020, the Army notes, “Rs 960 crore roughly means 100 155-mm medium artillery guns could have been bought for this amount.” The OFB, administered by the MoD’s Department of Defence Production, is one of the world’s oldest government-controlled production organisations, and oversees a nationwide network of factories that manufactures ammunition and weaponry for the Indian armed forces. The ammunition being criticised in the new Army report includes 23-mm air defence shells, artillery shells, 125-mm tank rounds and different calibres of bullets used in infantry assault rifles. ‘POOR QUALITY’ AMMUNITION The Army report accessed by India Today highlights the ‘poor quality production’ at the OFB, quantifying the losses both in monetary resources as well as human life due to accidents caused by faulty ammunition. “Lack of accountability and poor quality of production results in frequent accidents. This results in injuries and deaths of soldiers. On an average, one accident takes place per week,” says the report that has been shared with the MoD, including accident and casualty figures. There have been 403 accidents related to faulty ammunition since 2014, though the numbers of accidents have steadily reduced. From 114 accidents in 2014, the number reduced to 53 by 2017, rose again to 78 in 2018, and dipped once again to just 16 in 2019. But the human casualty figures are far more disturbing. Listed under the heading ‘Casualties due to OFB manufactured ammunition and armament’, the report notes 27 troops and others have been killed in faulty ammunition accidents since 2014, with 159 being seriously injured, including permanent disabilities and loss of limbs. There have been 13 accidents so far in 2020, though none of them has resulted in a death. Calculating Rs 960 crore as the monetary write-off as a result of faulty OFB ammunition since 2014, the Army report notes that Rs 658.58 crore worth was disposed of within the ammunition’s shelf life between April 2014 and April 2019, while 303.23 crore worth of mines were disposed of within their shelf life following a major ammunition depot fire in Pulgaon, Maharashtra in 2016. ‘MINI-OFB’ TYPE SUPPLIERS NEEDED The Army’s exasperation with OFB supplied ammunition has simmered over decades, reaching a breaking point in the last two years, forcing an effort to approach the Indian private sector to meet ammunition needs. But as India Today reported earlier this month, the Army has pulled the plug on five of seven proposals that would have seen private firms step in to keep ammunition supplies running. However, the effort to get private companies to become ‘mini-OFB’ type suppliers is desperately needed. Earlier this month, the Army’s ‘ammunition-in-chief’, the Master General Ordnance (MGO) Lt Gen Upadhya said at an industry interaction, “OFB is in any case available to us. We want a parallel capacity to come up. It may not be at the scale of the OFB. But to start with, at least a parallel set up should come and various types of ammunition would then be available from the industry which can then settle down and in the times to come, a scaling up can take place.” The Army has a difficult situation on its hands, and one that needs to be navigated tactfully. On the one hand, pushback against the OFB goes directly against the MoD itself, even though the latter has begun a process of modernisation of the OFB. Just this month, the Ministry of Defence appointed a KPMG-led consortium to advise the government on how to lift the OFB out of its legacy socialist structures and to corporatise it. OFB unions at factories across the country have aggressively opposed the corporatisation drive. On the other hand, the effort to include private sector firms has largely been one step forward and two back, with several companies — both big and small — expressing willingness to invest in capacity to produce and supply ammunition, but require a degree of clarity and assurance of orders, since they do not have the financial cushion and leeway enjoyed by state-owned concerns like the OFB. What the numbers in the new Army report indicate is that things have come to a head. And with India’s forces massed on the border in a war-like situation that will almost definitely stretch into the foreseeable future, the Army hopes the glaring numbers will force a solution to its decades-old ammunition quality, shortage and assurance problems.
 

Trololo

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Loss of a well trained soldier is irreplaceable. Unaccountablity in government institutions is this country's curse.
OFB scoundrels have threatened an indefinite strike in light of corporatization plans. I think GoI should bat on front foot here and set an example by firing communist labor union leaders along with compulsory retirement of lazy laggards in the organization to set an example. Once the communists know their usual bandh-gherao tactics won't work, they will either fall in line or go off to other pastures.
 

Bhumihar

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OFB scoundrels have threatened an indefinite strike in light of corporatization plans. I think GoI should bat on front foot here and set an example by firing communist labor union leaders along with compulsory retirement of lazy laggards in the organization to set an example. Once the communists know their usual bandh-gherao tactics won't work, they will either fall in line or go off to other pastures.
They are close to 80,000 workers in total and most of them are not willing doing this so firings them won't be easy.
 

Trololo

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They are close to 80,000 workers in total and most of them are not willing doing this so firings them won't be easy.
Fair point. But even if a good number are fired others will fall in line. And those who are fired will have to seek jobs in pvt cos where they will be expected to work.
 

Bhumihar

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Fair point. But even if a good number are fired others will fall in line. And those who are fired will have to seek jobs in pvt cos where they will be expected to work.
First step corporatization
Second step evaluation of Workers and firing the incompetent ones to cut the crows and set an example.
Third step privatization of some particularly underperforming factories
 

Bhadra

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No, keep reservations for your family, mine type of guys don't need it, government ke FAIDE tumhari utha rahi hai aur humme bol rahe ho reservation chahiye. :rofl: and test untill when.... Untill the product become OBSOLETE, you army people are responsible for TODAY defence minister daily trips to russia and Isreal.
And don't talk about fatigue, you don't even deserve that good word.

If you want more then let's start and if I AM RIGHT one year has passed since then, yes good let's start.

So now you wish to claim reservations on Fatigue... you surely mean mental fatigue without using mental capacity...

Keep writing whatever you like... you have a Union perhaps..
 

Knowitall

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They are close to 80,000 workers in total and most of them are not willing doing this so firings them won't be easy.

I feel like our army should raise protests.

Simply refuse to buy anything from OFB.

Army cheif should come out and say we are ready to give the supreme sacrifice but ofb has let us down.

Gain public support.

After that govt can site current standoff and plea of army and end ofb once and for all.
 

Trololo

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First step corporatization
Second step evaluation of Workers and firing the incompetent ones to cut the crows and set an example.
Third step privatization of some particularly underperforming factories
This seems to be a good idea. But I think there will be a major attempt to scuttle this in the corporatization part itself. No wonder the unions are striking. IMO, even if partial corporatization can be done in the first phase then immediately the firing phase needs to happen to set an example.

I like the idea of selling the most underperforming units. VFJ and OFB Medak come to mind immediately.
 

Bhadra

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Logicalize yourself. If it had been design issue, the barrel burst would have happened much before. This gun has undergone trials in Sikkim and Deolali. If it had been because of design, it would have burst open long ago.

As far as Vajra is concerned, it too suffered barrel burst just days after the contract was signed in between L&T and Techwin. So did it went back to drawing board? Or was the issue got resolved without going back to drawing board?

Sorry that I am asking you to think logically here.
Why should I think... We are talking about a report which says DRDO is going back to the drawing board... That is it.
 

Bhumihar

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In the future once we have gotten rid of the socialsit pests I wish Gov would reconsider opening DSPUs, soome 20-30 years later.
 

Trololo

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