Indian Army Artillery

WolfPack86

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Sharang Gun system inducted in Army

After receiving green signal from the Ministry of Defence, the indigenously-developed Sharang Gun system manufactured by Vehicle Factory Jabalpur (VFJ) was officially inducted in the Indian Army, on Friday. Principal Scientific Officer, Controllerate of Quality Assurance (Weapons) (CQAW), A K Adkar has handed over the I-Note of two Sharang guns to General Manager, Vehicle Factory, Atul Gupta during a ceremony organised on Friday. It may be mentioned that induction of Sharang Gun in the Indian Army will enhance the national security in land-locked border areas to destroy enemies with more effective and accurate firing efficiency. Other eminent officers Controller, WDT, Brigadier Jayant Kar, Lieutenant Colonel Rajat Tandon, Additional General Manager, VFJ, OP Tiwariand Group Officer, Sarang Project, Joint General Manager, Rameshwar Meena. Induction of Sharang Gun in the Indian Army will strengthen the national security in land-locked border areas to destroy enemies with more effective and accurate firing efficiency. GCF, Joint General Manager and Spokesman, Sanjay Shrivastava, while talking to ‘The Hitavada’, informed that the first batch of nine Sharang Guns successfully passed through rigorous proof trials and final inspection by different agencies and got all the necessary clearances. It has been expected that competent authorities may anytime release induction order for supplying the first lot of Sharang Guns. The Sharang 155mm/45calibre Gun system was indigenously developed with modification of Soltam 130 mm imported Russian Gun System at Gun Carriage Factory. Indigenous production of Sharang Guns is being carried out at Gun Carriage Factory (GCF) and Vehicle Factory Jabalpur (VFJ). First lot of Sharang Gun system was successfully accomplished all the technical parameters in a rigorous proof firing at Long Proof Range (LPR) Khamaria. Sharang Guns are being simultaneously developed at Gun Carriage Factory and Vehicle Factory Jabalpur. It is the first time when any indigenised gun system was given green signal for bulk production within a record time due to indigenisation and proof trials of guns in the same
 

WolfPack86

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IA's upgraded BM-21 Grad on an Ashok Leyland Super Stallion truck. The older Russian truck(Pic4) was replaced. The upgrade was done by Ashok Leyland and L&T. Since the Army already uses the Super Stallion in huge numbers this allows streamlining of logistics, spares & services.
 

prateikf

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Why don’t we replace the outdated BM-21 with Pinaka instead and save on spares etc ?
 

Flying Dagger

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IA's upgraded BM-21 Grad on an Ashok Leyland Super Stallion truck. The older Russian truck(Pic4) was replaced. The upgrade was done by Ashok Leyland and L&T. Since the Army already uses the Super Stallion in huge numbers this allows streamlining of logistics, spares & services.
The older trucks pic 4 have a very clear ground clearance more than new AL trucks.
 

WolfPack86

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ATAGS Howitzer Trials comes to a Halt, Guns send back from Pokhran
The trial of final phase of Howitzer guns that was going on at Pokhran field firing range has been stopped by DRDO after the barrel of one of the guns exploded last week. The companies left with their guns on Saturday. DRDO has formed a board to investigate the explosion of barrel and a high-level inquiry has been ordered.


The trial was going on for last 10 days in the presence of DRDO and army experts. The design of this 155mm 52-caliber gun was made by Armament Research & Development Establishment, Pune and manufactured by Tata Power and Bharat Forge. The barrel of a gun during the firing at the trial blasted in which 3-4 experts suffered minor injuries.


In 2017 also barrel of a gun of the same company exploded during trials. That time the reason was problem in ammunition. This gun has power to fire at a distance of 47km and can fire 6 rounds in 30 seconds.
 

WolfPack86

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Artillery Barrel Hit: Concerns Over Charge In Ammo
Nagpur: The 155x52 mm advanced towed artillery gun system (ATAGS), claimed to have the world’s longest range of 48km, suffered a barrel burst during trials last week. Now, concerns have been raised that the method of firing the ammunition used at present may affect the gun’s performance.




The guns have been made by Bharat Forge and Tata Power, and were being tested with shells made by Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) at the Pokhran range when the accident took place. An investigation is underway in the matter.



To achieve a higher range, a shell has to be fired with extra charge or explosive. In ATAGS, the shell was fired with seven charge modules. Higher charge increases the pressure, which, beyond a certain limit, can affect the shell’s movement. This can lead to accidents like barrel hit, said sources.



It is learnt that concerns were raised about the safety of firing the shells with higher charge a few days before the accident. The OFB, which makes the shell, refused to comment on the issue.



The ATAGS has been designed by Pune’s Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), a unit of Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO). The gun made by Tata Power suffered the barrel hit. The barrel in both Tata and Bharat Forge guns have been made by the latter.



The ATAGS is designed to achieve a range of 42km and beyond. In 2017, it had achieved a record range of 48km.

The shells for 155mm calibre howitzers made by the ordnance factory are designed to be fired with up to six charge modules and handle pressure up to 340 megapascals. To make the shell fly over 40km, seven charge modules are used. The OFB shells are made under transfer of technology (TOT) from South African company Dennel. Even in the TOT, it has been specified that the gun can handle service pressure of 340 megapascals, or six charge modules at the most.



This is called zone 6 ammunition, and what has been used in ATAGS was zone 7. Higher pressure due to zone 7 can lead to risks. Zone 6 is the standard world over, the sources said.



OFB only makes zone 6 ammunition, which is in line with NATO standards. Even the 155x52 calibre mounted gun system developed by the OFB uses zone 6, a source said.

An official in one of the private companies confirmed that the shell was fired with zone 7 ammunition to achieve a higher charge, and rejected any claim that they had received any warning. So far, both Bharat Forge and Tata guns have fired over 1,000 rounds using the zone 7 rounds. The ATAGS barrel is designed to handle 440 megapascals of pressure.



“The pressure handling capacity is basically meant for the barrel but even the shell is expected to withstand similar levels,” the source said. A final investigation into the incident will only reveal the truth said the company official.

OFB Dropped As Integrator



Earlier, the OFB was supposed to be the lead integrator of the gun, but eventually ARDE tied up with private companies. Sources involved in the development said OFB had also made a prototype barrel for ATAGS. However, later it was not roped in for the project. The details of the present gun were also not shared due to a non-disclosure agreement with the private companies.
 

Dessert Storm

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Artillery Barrel Hit: Concerns Over Charge In Ammo
Nagpur: The 155x52 mm advanced towed artillery gun system (ATAGS), claimed to have the world’s longest range of 48km, suffered a barrel burst during trials last week. Now, concerns have been raised that the method of firing the ammunition used at present may affect the gun’s performance.




The guns have been made by Bharat Forge and Tata Power, and were being tested with shells made by Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) at the Pokhran range when the accident took place. An investigation is underway in the matter.



To achieve a higher range, a shell has to be fired with extra charge or explosive. In ATAGS, the shell was fired with seven charge modules. Higher charge increases the pressure, which, beyond a certain limit, can affect the shell’s movement. This can lead to accidents like barrel hit, said sources.



It is learnt that concerns were raised about the safety of firing the shells with higher charge a few days before the accident. The OFB, which makes the shell, refused to comment on the issue.



The ATAGS has been designed by Pune’s Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), a unit of Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO). The gun made by Tata Power suffered the barrel hit. The barrel in both Tata and Bharat Forge guns have been made by the latter.



The ATAGS is designed to achieve a range of 42km and beyond. In 2017, it had achieved a record range of 48km.

The shells for 155mm calibre howitzers made by the ordnance factory are designed to be fired with up to six charge modules and handle pressure up to 340 megapascals. To make the shell fly over 40km, seven charge modules are used. The OFB shells are made under transfer of technology (TOT) from South African company Dennel. Even in the TOT, it has been specified that the gun can handle service pressure of 340 megapascals, or six charge modules at the most.



This is called zone 6 ammunition, and what has been used in ATAGS was zone 7. Higher pressure due to zone 7 can lead to risks. Zone 6 is the standard world over, the sources said.



OFB only makes zone 6 ammunition, which is in line with NATO standards. Even the 155x52 calibre mounted gun system developed by the OFB uses zone 6, a source said.

An official in one of the private companies confirmed that the shell was fired with zone 7 ammunition to achieve a higher charge, and rejected any claim that they had received any warning. So far, both Bharat Forge and Tata guns have fired over 1,000 rounds using the zone 7 rounds. The ATAGS barrel is designed to handle 440 megapascals of pressure.



“The pressure handling capacity is basically meant for the barrel but even the shell is expected to withstand similar levels,” the source said. A final investigation into the incident will only reveal the truth said the company official.

OFB Dropped As Integrator



Earlier, the OFB was supposed to be the lead integrator of the gun, but eventually ARDE tied up with private companies. Sources involved in the development said OFB had also made a prototype barrel for ATAGS. However, later it was not roped in for the project. The details of the present gun were also not shared due to a non-disclosure agreement with the private companies.
The chamber of ATAGS is 25 litres as compared to 23 litres in most guns worldwide. Even Bharat 52 has 23 litre chamber. The ATAGS chamber is 25 litres so it can take additional charge to increase the range of the shell (maybe other reasons too). Make your own conclusions.
 

Shashank Nayak

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Artillery Barrel Hit: Concerns Over Charge In Ammo
Nagpur: The 155x52 mm advanced towed artillery gun system (ATAGS), claimed to have the world’s longest range of 48km, suffered a barrel burst during trials last week. Now, concerns have been raised that the method of firing the ammunition used at present may affect the gun’s performance.




The guns have been made by Bharat Forge and Tata Power, and were being tested with shells made by Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) at the Pokhran range when the accident took place. An investigation is underway in the matter.



To achieve a higher range, a shell has to be fired with extra charge or explosive. In ATAGS, the shell was fired with seven charge modules. Higher charge increases the pressure, which, beyond a certain limit, can affect the shell’s movement. This can lead to accidents like barrel hit, said sources.



It is learnt that concerns were raised about the safety of firing the shells with higher charge a few days before the accident. The OFB, which makes the shell, refused to comment on the issue.



The ATAGS has been designed by Pune’s Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), a unit of Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO). The gun made by Tata Power suffered the barrel hit. The barrel in both Tata and Bharat Forge guns have been made by the latter.



The ATAGS is designed to achieve a range of 42km and beyond. In 2017, it had achieved a record range of 48km.

The shells for 155mm calibre howitzers made by the ordnance factory are designed to be fired with up to six charge modules and handle pressure up to 340 megapascals. To make the shell fly over 40km, seven charge modules are used. The OFB shells are made under transfer of technology (TOT) from South African company Dennel. Even in the TOT, it has been specified that the gun can handle service pressure of 340 megapascals, or six charge modules at the most.



This is called zone 6 ammunition, and what has been used in ATAGS was zone 7. Higher pressure due to zone 7 can lead to risks. Zone 6 is the standard world over, the sources said.



OFB only makes zone 6 ammunition, which is in line with NATO standards. Even the 155x52 calibre mounted gun system developed by the OFB uses zone 6, a source said.

An official in one of the private companies confirmed that the shell was fired with zone 7 ammunition to achieve a higher charge, and rejected any claim that they had received any warning. So far, both Bharat Forge and Tata guns have fired over 1,000 rounds using the zone 7 rounds. The ATAGS barrel is designed to handle 440 megapascals of pressure.



“The pressure handling capacity is basically meant for the barrel but even the shell is expected to withstand similar levels,” the source said. A final investigation into the incident will only reveal the truth said the company official.

OFB Dropped As Integrator



Earlier, the OFB was supposed to be the lead integrator of the gun, but eventually ARDE tied up with private companies. Sources involved in the development said OFB had also made a prototype barrel for ATAGS. However, later it was not roped in for the project. The details of the present gun were also not shared due to a non-disclosure agreement with the private companies.
Looks like Indian Jugaad gone wrong.
So, basically OFB shells are made to work with zone 6 ammunition. Even as per denel the shell is not meant to handle zone 7 ammunition. But, instead of procuring a costlier shell for the tests, they decided to use cheaper OFB shells which were not supposed to be used with zone 7 propellant charge..
 

Brood Father

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Looks like Indian Jugaad gone wrong.
So, basically OFB shells are made to work with zone 6 ammunition. Even as per denel the shell is not meant to handle zone 7 ammunition. But, instead of procuring a costlier shell for the tests, they decided to use cheaper OFB shells which were not supposed to be used with zone 7 propellant charge..
So in a way its a good news right ?? Neither the barrel nor the munition is at fault ..
 

Dessert Storm

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Looks like Indian Jugaad gone wrong.
So, basically OFB shells are made to work with zone 6 ammunition. Even as per denel the shell is not meant to handle zone 7 ammunition. But, instead of procuring a costlier shell for the tests, they decided to use cheaper OFB shells which were not supposed to be used with zone 7 propellant charge..
No sir what you say about jugaad is improbable. Reasons are:
(1) The ATAGS are designed to take zone 7 charge. That includes, the Chamber, Barrel, Muzzle Brakes. The chamber is 25 LTRs compared to 23 ltrs in other guns. Barrel is designed for higher pressure. Triple baffle muzzle brakes are available for these guns.
(2) The parameters of testing are pre-defined. Therefore, the argument that it was not a 7 zone charge compliant shell does not hold water.
(3) The shell is manufactured under TOT and Denel says it is 6 zone compliant. This argument does not hold any water too because the TOT may be for 6zone, does not mean OFB cannot make improvements (eg up gunning Bofors).
(4) If a new platform is being tested, the shell used has to be a tried and tested one. Both cannot be untested. Therefore, the absolute right shell would have been chambered at the time of testing.

In my view, with the extensive vishy-washy being indulged in, the real problem may not be the shell. It's just that getting away by blaming OFB would be the easiest.
 

Shashank Nayak

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No sir what you say about jugaad is improbable. Reasons are:
(1) The ATAGS are designed to take zone 7 charge. That includes, the Chamber, Barrel, Muzzle Brakes. The chamber is 25 LTRs compared to 23 ltrs in other guns. Barrel is designed for higher pressure. Triple baffle muzzle brakes are available for these guns.
(2) The parameters of testing are pre-defined. Therefore, the argument that it was not a 7 zone charge compliant shell does not hold water.
(3) The shell is manufactured under TOT and Denel says it is 6 zone compliant. This argument does not hold any water too because the TOT may be for 6zone, does not mean OFB cannot make improvements (eg up gunning Bofors).
(4) If a new platform is being tested, the shell used has to be a tried and tested one. Both cannot be untested. Therefore, the absolute right shell would have been chambered at the time of testing.

In my view, with the extensive vishy-washy being indulged in, the real problem may not be the shell. It's just that getting away by blaming OFB would be the easiest.
Maybe making a zone 7 compliant shell , involves a change in metallurgy which is out of scope of ToT. And OFB might not be equipped to manufacture such a shell. It may also be that OFB overpromised and underdelivered on the shell. Or maybe it was a problem with the Kalyani gun barrel. We might get more information in the future..
 

Dessert Storm

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Maybe making a zone 7 compliant shell , involves a change in metallurgy which is out of scope of ToT. And OFB might not be equipped to manufacture such a shell. It may also be that OFB overpromised and underdelivered on the shell. Or maybe it was a problem with the Kalyani gun barrel. We might get more information in the future..
Maybe, maybe not. The basic point still remains. There is no ways a non compliant shell would be allowed in the trials. That is not the way trials work.
 

Bhadra

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Look at this Tamsha ;

So most of the arguments here seem to suggest that DRDO developed a howitzer with a barrel to fire a Zone7 Charge when Zone 7 Charge was not available with the country...??

* Then tell me how did ATAGS achieve the stated 48km range? Or was that a false claim.

* Then there are suggestions being made that Kalyani Metallurgy / TATA is bad ?
* Most of the fingers are pointing towards OFB which has gone to town with huge propaganda that they exported 155mm shells to Foreign countries.

* This is not the first time Indian ammunition has cracked barrels, Earlier foreign firms have even refused to use OFB ammunition.


Can any one tell me why should anyone not suspect that Isreal has heavily bribed DRDO or OFB to engineer a failure so that their Elbit gun could be sold in this emergency? IF OFB and DRDO fanboys of the forum keep shouting without any basis "general Chor hai".. why should I not how to town that OFB and DRDO are sold out?

* Or alternatively, why should the OFB be charged with sabotage so that their Dhanush and Sarang only sells and ATAGS is a failure. This is in spite that barrel technology is that of OFB?

Guys ... when you point a finger at others four fingers point at you.
 

Bhadra

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In artillery technology two things are closely connected.

The barrel thickness, metallurgy, and consequently the weight of the barrel are connected to the pressure generated by the maximum charge that it is supposed to fire at.

That also directly affects the design, metallurgy, and thickness of the shell which further directly effects the fragmentation pattern of the shell and its effectiveness.

That can be easily understood by very low charges fired by Mortars generating less barrel pressure making it possible to make very light barrels as also use shells with thinner casing resulting in greater fragmentation at the target end.

But if DRDO / Kalyani ? TATA has fired more than 1000 rounds with Charge 7 earlier successfully then why should the barrel burst when the Chinese are your doorstep and govt has banned the import of Guns?

Does OFB want an order of 1000 of Dhanus in this situation by sabotaging ATAGS ??
 

Shashank Nayak

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What about final trials of Bharat 52 howitzer by Indian Army, about which there was an article last month ? Any idea whats happening on that front..
 

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