Indian Army Artillery

[Prashant12]

Video of the Army's new M-777 gun in India

 

[mayfair]

A fine image spoiled by Vishnu Som.

 

[rrrajesh.yadav]

Another video of the M777s right after they arrived in Delhi this morning. https://t.co/4ilJ1VG89D

 

[Prashant12]

Another video of the M777s right after they arrived in Delhi this morning.

 

[ezsasa]

Another video of the M777s right after they arrived in Delhi this morning.

Indian customer, American Gun flown in a Plane made in former USSR.
globalisaton ki jai ho!!!!!

 

[PD_Solo]

Some hours ago, the 1st two BAE Systems M777 howitzers landed in Delhi. Testbed trials shortly by the Indian Army at Pokhran. 20 to be imported from BAE's facility in the US. Remaining 120 to be assembled in India by the BAE-Mahindra partnership.
(LiveFist)
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal

I think 25 are to be imported directly.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

 

[Vinod DX9]

Official statement, will help to quench some questions

 

[captscooby81]

Here comes the big joke with this official statement the next 3 guns will come exactly 16 months from now and the local assembly will start in 2019 and the order will get completed in 2021 ..Wah Bc Wah koi ek deal toh 3 year time frame se under deliver karne wala sign kiya .... our favo 36 months strike again

Our obsession with 36 months of waiting

View attachment 15965
Official statement, will help to quench some questions

 

[ezsasa]

Here comes the big joke with this official statement the next 3 guns will come exactly 16 months from now and the local assembly will start in 2019 and the order will get completed in 2021 ..Wah Bc Wah koi ek deal toh 3 year time frame se under deliver karne wala sign kiya .... our favo 36 months strike again

Our obsession with 36 months of waiting

In between Mahindra plant has to be set up. Which alone might take a year, they also have to start HR recruitment for production.

Timeframe is fine.

Edit: If the JV was with Kalyani, we could expect a shorter timeframe. They already have the plant and resources.

 

[captscooby81]

Agreed the initial order was for 145 Guns on this 125 mahindra will assemble or manufacture what ever under makeinindia scheme ..Now do you think mahindra is going to invest in setting up production plan just to manufacture 125 guns even considering Anand mahindra is a very patriotic guy he is still a business man ..there might be future plans to use this production setup for other products too which mahindra might tie up with BAE ..Considering this in mind i think mahindra should have started the work on the plant the day deal is signed in november and can complete it before end of this year ..i never seen a production setup taking more than 2 years and that too its for Arty guns .. I dont doubt mahindra s intention i question the intensity if our guys in MOD and IA if they put the pressure and say we need guns by 2018 not 2021 don t you think BAE would have not hurried up the supply process ..Now people ask why so hurry are we going for war in 2018-19 but still you get your guns in 2020 when will you also train the crew who operate it ..With 2 guns how many teams they will be able to train ..

There is a serious need of Fire in ass in our MoD.. mirchi nahi lagegi toh kam aise hi hoga ...

In between Mahindra plant has to be set up. Which alone might take a year, they also have to start HR recruitment for production.

Timeframe is fine.

Edit: If the JV was with Kalyani, we could expect a shorter timeframe. They already have the plant and resources.

 

[Guest]

.Now people ask why so hurry are we going for war in 2018-19 but still you get your guns in 2020 when will you also train the crew who operate it ..With 2 guns how many teams they will be able to train ..

There is a serious need of Fire in ass in our MoD.. mirchi nahi lagegi toh kam aise hi hoga ...

By the year end 12+ Guns will reach Army-

1- Army 1st needs to calibrate range charts for Indian ammunition and charges being used with M777 besides calibrating for imported ones from US-

2- Then the testing of this gun will start in various conditions- Which will take at least one year and more Guns will be pressed into It as they arrive-

3- Then after the evaluation process of gun is completed with flying colors It will be given thumbs Up for acquisition of additional 500- And allotment to various artillery regiments will commence- That can happen only by 2020-

4- Then the fighting forces will use It and train on It to develop their capability with these machines as they keep arriving to their units-

 

[Chinmoy]

Agreed the initial order was for 145 Guns on this 125 mahindra will assemble or manufacture what ever under makeinindia scheme ..Now do you think mahindra is going to invest in setting up production plan just to manufacture 125 guns even considering Anand mahindra is a very patriotic guy he is still a business man ..there might be future plans to use this production setup for other products too which mahindra might tie up with BAE ..Considering this in mind i think mahindra should have started the work on the plant the day deal is signed in november and can complete it before end of this year ..i never seen a production setup taking more than 2 years and that too its for Arty guns .. I dont doubt mahindra s intention i question the intensity if our guys in MOD and IA if they put the pressure and say we need guns by 2018 not 2021 don t you think BAE would have not hurried up the supply process ..Now people ask why so hurry are we going for war in 2018-19 but still you get your guns in 2020 when will you also train the crew who operate it ..With 2 guns how many teams they will be able to train ..

There is a serious need of Fire in ass in our MoD.. mirchi nahi lagegi toh kam aise hi hoga ...

It would take nearly 7 to 8 months for calibration chart to prepare. After that if some change is needed, it would be done by manufacturer for the next three guns. After that the next three guns would be manufactured and delivered by late 2018 based on the calibration chart prepared and shared.

Then after adequate training, by early 2019 the induction of the guns would be started and these would be the ones prepared by OEM. Mahindra doesn't even come in pic till mid or late of 2019.

 

[captscooby81]

Just a small doubt how did the deal was finalised the army would have done some trail firings right before going ahead with closing the deal ..Did they not taken all these calibration of range charts in those trails if i am not wrong this particular deal was something they were doing since 2007 if i am not wrong ten years then what kind of need analysis or SWOT analysis they had done on these guns ..

I am sure IA is going for 500 M777 and not going to restrict it to just 145 guns well then it wont be even viable for mahindra to get into picture ..

By the year end 12+ Guns will reach Army-

1- Army 1st needs to calibrate range charts for Indian ammunition and charges being used with M777 besides calibrating for imported ones from US-

2- Then the testing of this gun will start in various conditions- Which will take at least one year and more Guns will be pressed into It as they arrive-

3- Then after the evaluation process of gun is completed with flying colors It will be given thumbs Up for acquisition of additional 500- And allotment to various artillery regiments will commence- That can happen only by 2020-

4- Then the fighting forces will use It and train on It to develop their capability with these machines as they keep arriving to their units-

Well don t we have proper planning for any new purchase in how to use it and where to use it .. Well that means we technically have to still rely on our 4 decade old Bofors if a small war breaks out next year or 2019 ..

But if there is one title i want to give it ourselves may be Noble should list an new award for the best procrastination mind and i am not surprised it will be won by us year and year till the award gets ceased ..

Thats why i sometimes feel its always good to loose a war once in between ..1962 defeat to chinese made our defence forces and political leadership realise we were shit under equipped which helped to do some changes which helped win 1965 and 1971..1971 american aircraft carrier entering IOR and russian submarine trailing it made us realise the need for investment in Submarine warfare ..Not sure 1999 kargil victory has made us weak again especially the generals and the Bureaucracy sloth s ...If we get some good bang by one adversary then we will wake up from your deep coma and will start responding like a living human being again ..Or else we always behave like a Dead body with no senses

It would take nearly 7 to 8 months for calibration chart to prepare. After that if some change is needed, it would be done by manufacturer for the next three guns. After that the next three guns would be manufactured and delivered by late 2018 based on the calibration chart prepared and shared.

Then after adequate training, by early 2019 the induction of the guns would be started and these would be the ones prepared by OEM. Mahindra doesn't even come in pic till mid or late of 2019.

 

[WARREN SS]

Just a small doubt how did the deal was finalised the army would have done some trail firings right before going ahead with closing the deal ..Did they not taken all these calibration of range charts in those trails if i am not wrong this particular deal was something they were doing since 2007 if i am not wrong ten years then what kind of need analysis or SWOT analysis they had done on these guns ..

It's vital. The Indian Army can trial the M777 with US charges and shells, but if the they aren't going to use them, they're creating firing tables that are invalid for their guns. They need to know how the domestic shells and charges perform when fired from an M777 in varying climates and terrains so they can be sure of how they'll perform during operational conditions and allow them to accurately deliver fire onto a target, which with firing tables for different shells or charges and not the ones used in the guns you own, could be problematic at best.

The Americans can't give you those without access to your shells and your charges. You need to trial the guns and fire some rounds to develop them. That means more testing. Necessary testing.

Artillery is the most long trial process At-least 200-300 shells Will be fired in one session in a day To check the barrel strength to its maximum in various terrain

Mod Already keen on Follow on order of these

Major gen chakravarty who was there For assessment in Us For M777 guns told that Army is looking this gun as game changer 4200 kg With 40 km firing capability

Ministry keen to purchase 500 more Howitzer guns from BAE Systems ...

Hopefully by the Time M777ER - Experimental upgrade created by the Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) project modified with a 52-caliber barrel adding 1.8 m (5.9 ft) to the cannon and less than 450 kilograms (990 lb) to the overall system, extending range from 30 to 70 km (19 to 43 mi) will be ready

Well don t we have proper planning for any new purchase in how to use it and where to use it .. Well that means we technically have to still rely on our 4 decade old Bofors if a small war breaks out next year or 2019

You forgetting by the time We will get 114 Dhanush howitzer

25 of these M777 guns delivered by 2019 from the us

We are Lucky that at-least NDA govt signed these deals going by previous govt track record

 

[Chinmoy]

Just a small doubt how did the deal was finalised the army would have done some trail firings right before going ahead with closing the deal ..Did they not taken all these calibration of range charts in those trails if i am not wrong this particular deal was something they were doing since 2007 if i am not wrong ten years then what kind of need analysis or SWOT analysis they had done on these guns ..

I am sure IA is going for 500 M777 and not going to restrict it to just 145 guns well then it wont be even viable for mahindra to get into picture ..



Well don t we have proper planning for any new purchase in how to use it and where to use it .. Well that means we technically have to still rely on our 4 decade old Bofors if a small war breaks out next year or 2019 ..

But if there is one title i want to give it ourselves may be Noble should list an new award for the best procrastination mind and i am not surprised it will be won by us year and year till the award gets ceased ..

Thats why i sometimes feel its always good to loose a war once in between ..1962 defeat to chinese made our defence forces and political leadership realise we were shit under equipped which helped to do some changes which helped win 1965 and 1971..1971 american aircraft carrier entering IOR and russian submarine trailing it made us realise the need for investment in Submarine warfare ..Not sure 1999 kargil victory has made us weak again especially the generals and the Bureaucracy sloth s ...If we get some good bang by one adversary then we will wake up from your deep coma and will start responding like a living human being again ..Or else we always behave like a Dead body with no senses

Now lets see how these things does happen. IA asked for ultra light howitzer and they were provided the prototype to carry out the field testing. Now these testings are done to see their reliability under various weather condition and other aspects like handling and transportation. When satisfied by all of these, which in itself takes around a year or two because of varied climate, the order is placed. Now the committee works upon other legal and logistical along with economical aspect of the deal. This is where things gets lengthy. But nevertheless when this too gets passed, the product thus gets delivered.

But mind you, these guns were specifically made for Indian conditions. These are not the surplus from US or UK stock which we are purchasing. Although the one which had undergone field testing is from the stock of US arty div. Now although calibration charts for them has already been prepared, but it has been done under the environmental condition of UK and US.

The point to remember for any such artillery piece is, the environment does plays a critical role in the landing of the shell after it has been fired from the gun. Along with the bimodular charge, extensive firing would be done with these to prepare the calibration chart under different temperature and wind condition. Now this is a herculean task for any artillery piece and it would take considerable time. If some changes is need to be done, the same would be conveyed to OEM and effectively production of key components would be on hold till then. Only after receiving the calibration chart and readings from customer, BAE would take up production of next batch which would be delivered for training purpose. From next batch onwards those would be inducted. Induction and training would go hand in hand from then onwards.

So basically this time its not the testing which would take time. It would be chart preparation which is as vital as field testing for any artillery piece. Individual testing of each system would be carried out seperately before induction.

 

[Chinmoy]

Seems I was late in replying. @WARREN SS already took care of it .

 

[captscooby81]

Well i am not much knowledgeable in the technical part of the trails so i respect what ever you said ..the only thing which still makes me go crazy is the logical part why do our guys always has to be pushed to the corner before coming up with a decision for a purchase or an upgrade why don t we had set some strict guideline s irrespective of who is at the helm few things has to be upgraded on a periodical table not necessarily the upgrade should happen when someone realised others have gone ahead way up and we still lagged behind.

Again i am not at all questioning the motive of this government s decision or the previous government s decisions ..

With Mod i feel we always over commit and under deliver especially with the indigenous defence production ..If you are going to keep doing this pay commission hikes standard from security gaurd to the scientist in DRDO or ADA or OFB everyone will deliver the same output or even less because they know you don t have to work hard to get the hike as it will be given standard ..but if you use the private model and giving more to the achievers and less to the under performers trust me there will be some amazing results which we can see in our Defence production ..Well i may be over expecting from our govt and people in the way of attitude we work..

It's vital. The Indian Army can trial the M777 with US charges and shells, but if the they aren't going to use them, they're creating firing tables that are invalid for their guns. They need to know how the domestic shells and charges perform when fired from an M777 in varying climates and terrains so they can be sure of how they'll perform during operational conditions and allow them to accurately deliver fire onto a target, which with firing tables for different shells or charges and not the ones used in the guns you own, could be problematic at best.

The Americans can't give you those without access to your shells and your charges. You need to trial the guns and fire some rounds to develop them. That means more testing. Necessary testing.

Artillery is the most long trial process At-least 200-300 shells Will be fired in one session in a day To check the barrel strength to its maximum in various terrain

Mod Already keen on Follow on order of these

Major gen chakravarty who was there For assessment in Us For M777 guns told that Army is looking this gun as game changer 4200 kg With 40 km firing capability

Ministry keen to purchase 500 more Howitzer guns from BAE Systems ...

Hopefully by the Time M777ER - Experimental upgrade created by the Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) project modified with a 52-caliber barrel adding 1.8 m (5.9 ft) to the cannon and less than 450 kilograms (990 lb) to the overall system, extending range from 30 to 70 km (19 to 43 mi) will be ready


You forgetting by the time We will get 114 Dhanush howitzer

25 of these M777 guns delivered by 2019 from the us

We are Lucky that at-least NDA govt signed these deals going by previous govt track record

 

[captscooby81]

@Guest @Chinmoy @WARREN SS Thanks again for all three of you for giving me some enlightenment about these Guns and this purchase and delivery schedule ..valuable knowledge you guys shared. i think i am just simply ranting on the logical part totally ignoring the technical aspect ....Lets hope we get these guns in 1000s to guard our northern borders with the chinese ...

 

[WARREN SS]

With Mod i feel we always over commit and under deliver especially with the indigenous defence production ..If you are going to keep doing this pay commission hikes standard from security gaurd to the scientist in DRDO or ADA or OFB everyone will deliver the same output or even less because they know you don t have to work hard to get the hike as it will be given standard

Well Under new policy of GOI the Final Payment to the vendor only made after all guns will be delivered

the Payment will be released in installments specially to DSPU in procurement

 

[abingdonboy]

-These M777s are heading to Pokhran to develop firing tables for the IA using Indian made 155mm ammunition

- Another 3 units will be handed over in the next year

- From early 2019 BAE and Mahindra will be handing over 5 guns/month to the IA

- Another order for 500 M777 is expected in the next 3 years

You forgetting by the time We will get 114 Dhanush howitzer

Not only that but the K9s will also start to arrive within the next 11 months.