Indian Army Artillery

[Guest]

The technology for SDB is very useful in fighter aircrafts with multiple ejection rack a small bird like LCA can become a bomber loaded SDB with HE. I think we have all the technology, as @Kunal Biswas sir said once we have a requirement from the forces this can be envisaged. Hope they have some influence from the video shown.

If you see the mountains and the natural defense they offer from Artillery in places like Kargil, or Arunachal Pradesh- This becomes very necessary-

 

[mavles ihctep]

Corruption and incompetence within army is responsible for this situation.They r ready to induct russian junks with multiple defects but refuse to induct home grown weapons.This is the reason army always left with 50 year old rusty and junk russian weapons. Same goes for airforce.

 

[ezsasa]

Until Defense R&D and manufacturing are seen as means of Job creation and economic development nothing will happen-

In Indian context..

Somehow I don't think defence R&D and manufacturing as an industry can provide large number of jobs.

The more the components of in an equipment, more chances that sub-components are outsourced to other smaller companies. Because of the distributed model, smaller companies are less inclined to do research on their own. tonbo are a exception, as they have R&D In US too.

But, there is a chance that Indian defence industry might follow the lines of pharma industry. India Pharma is able to fund its major R&D even though its job creation is much less than say automobiles industry.

But first forces should have an interest towards to find out what they want their equipment to be 10-20 years down the line.

 

[Guest]

In Indian context..

Somehow I don't think defence R&D and manufacturing as an industry can provide large number of jobs.

The more the components of in an equipment, more chances that sub-components are outsourced to other smaller companies. Because of the distributed model, smaller companies are less inclined to do research on their own. tonbo are a exception, as they have R&D In US too.

But, there is a chance that Indian defence industry might follow the lines of pharma industry. India Pharma is able to fund its major R&D even though its job creation is much less than say automobiles industry.

But first forces should have an interest towards to find out what they want their equipment to be 10-20 years down the line.

India has enough requirements and a volatile Border with one war every decade- or regular artillery duels makes manufacturing a potential employment generator-

And given a huge ocean at Its doorstep- Shipbuilding and Naval buildup could also provide lots of Job opportunity- India will likely get support from rich gulf states- If there is a military expansion- They do It for their protection- like they do with west by buying expensive equipment-

 

[pankaj nema]

Now that war is at our doorstep ; let us hope the previous
delays and in decisions dont cost us too much

 

[ezsasa]

India has enough requirements and a volatile Border with one war every decade- or regular artillery duels makes manufacturing a potential employment generator-

And given a huge ocean at Its doorstep- Shipbuilding and Naval buildup could also provide lots of Job opportunity- India will likely get support from rich gulf states- If there is a military expansion- They do It for their protection- like they do with west by buying expensive equipment-

very true on your first point.

i think defence ship builders in india already have book orders or pipeline for next decade or so. recent example is that LPD tender has been modified to ensure all orders go to private ship industry. Navy is doing quite well, it's the others we have to worry about. IAF being the worst offender.

 

[Chinmoy]

@Guest , you have to basically understand how R&D in defence sector works. Just don't go by what you see in you tube channel. You are only watching the end product or what the end product would be. You have not seen the amount of cost which they have incurred.

R&D doesn't come cheap. Not it is cheap for US, neither it would be for us. DRDO just can't go on developing products if there is no buyer and even if they do vet buyer, they would have to look at the cost factor. Who would bear it for them? Unlike US arms developer, which gets funded by their armed force for any sort of development, their Indian counterpart has to part with their own money or DRDO would have to look out for public tax money for that. Now both this prospect is not bright for any R&D.

Many members over here do cry for handing over the production to private house citing the incompatibility of DRDO. But have you ever seen any pvt player taking the risk of jumping into the R&D sector.

The bottom line is. for any sort of R&D, you do need enormous amount of monetary backup. DRDO or other Indian companies doesn't have that much of independence. The step motherly treatment to anything indigenous by armed forces on top of that is topping of the dish.

 

[IndianHawk]

Many members over here do cry for handing over the production to private house citing the incompatibility of DRDO. But have you ever seen any pvt player taking the risk of jumping into the R&D sector.

Private sector never took defense seriously because it knew that orders will go to PSU anyway which are protected by govt monopoly. Now thankfully that is breaking in certain sectors . Once private companies have a level playing field with govt PSU to grab the orders they will invest money in r&d in due course.

 

[Guest]

@Guest , you have to basically understand how R&D in defence sector works. Just don't go by what you see in you tube channel. You are only watching the end product or what the end product would be. You have not seen the amount of cost which they have incurred.

R&D doesn't come cheap. Not it is cheap for US, neither it would be for us. DRDO just can't go on developing products if there is no buyer and even if they do vet buyer, they would have to look at the cost factor. Who would bear it for them? Unlike US arms developer, which gets funded by their armed force for any sort of development, their Indian counterpart has to part with their own money or DRDO would have to look out for public tax money for that. Now both this prospect is not bright for any R&D.

Many members over here do cry for handing over the production to private house citing the incompatibility of DRDO. But have you ever seen any pvt player taking the risk of jumping into the R&D sector.

The bottom line is. for any sort of R&D, you do need enormous amount of monetary backup. DRDO or other Indian companies doesn't have that much of independence. The step motherly treatment to anything indigenous by armed forces on top of that is topping of the dish.

DRDO has to show some promise in products to get orders- I agree some products are very good but generally its product is below par and look like university science projects- If It plans to earn revenue by getting orders for Its products- It needs proper product finishing and marketing-

Private sector will never take risk- they will want significant revenue- But they will do better with finishing and marketing part whenever they do It-

And R&D never goes wasted look at things like mosquito repellent or Bio-Toilets- even small things like ice hammer or ropes or cold climate gears may have other applications-

 

[Chinmoy]

DRDO has to show some promise in products to get orders- I agree some products are very good but generally its product is below par and look like university science projects- If It plans to earn revenue by getting orders for Its products- It needs proper product finishing and marketing-

Private sector will never take risk- they will want significant revenue- But they will do better with finishing and marketing part whenever they do It-

And R&D never goes wasted look at things like mosquito repellent or Bio-Toilets- even small things like ice hammer or ropes or cold climate gears may have other applications-

Now you are missing the whole point over here. DRDO is not an independent institute. It could develop only waht it has been asked to develop. In the way it would have to rediscover the wheel time and again. But it simply can't dive into the field of R&D. It doesn't have that freedom of doing so. DRDO in themselves is not responsible for finished product. They are only responsible for doing the research and developing tech for any product. They doesn't carry out the finishing of the final product.

Now comparing a snow axe or bio toilet with any missile development is simply illogical. Let me give you an example. It took US around 60 to70 years to develop Tomahawk missile. India is trying to develop one of its own for past 2 decades. There is no listing of the number of failures US scientists had to face in its development. But in India a couple of failures in Nirbhay raised the question of where tax payers money is getting invested and what is the return. Do you expect the same in US or Russia or China or Israel?

IIT Delhi had developed Sudarshan LGB kit. Where is it now? Where you think DRDO would get money for any R&D in such an environment. R&D would have to come out from base root level i.e, from our engineering institute. You can't expect a bunch of scientist dependent upon public expenditure to immerse themselves into anything costly R&D. It is something for which funding has to be enormous and no governmental institution in India enjoy that privilege as of now.

 

[Chinmoy]

Private sector never took defense seriously because it knew that orders will go to PSU anyway which are protected by govt monopoly. Now thankfully that is breaking in certain sectors . Once private companies have a level playing field with govt PSU to grab the orders they will invest money in r&d in due course.

Its never about the orders going to PSU in first place. Its a myth in which we are living. Pvt players do often care about the return which they have to get. Do you think a patent would be so easy to discard? Even if they don't get the real manufacturing order, still they could earn from letting the license production of their product and on royalty on their patent design.

Private players were always reluctant due to the fact that their investment might go in drain if their product is not selected. Moreover they knew that R&D is a sector which is nothing more then gamble. You have to invest and try to win a hand. It doesn't guarantee you a sure return specially in field of defence.

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

Very informative video on Indian artillery for those who are interested. (HINDI)


BTW there is very interesting discussion on Indian TNW program in The video (straight from retired general's mouth).

Thanks it was nice to watch the video.

 

[Innocent]

India floats repeat tender for homemade rocket launchers valued at $2B
By: Vivek Raghuvanshi, May 11, 2017 (Photo Credit: Indian Ministry of Defence)


NEW DELHI — In a move aimed at becoming more self-sufficient with multi-barrel rocket launchers, the Indian Ministry of Defence has floated a big-ticket bid to buy six regiments of homemade Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers for $2 billion. The order for the acquisition is expected to be placed within 18 months.

Last December, the ministry placed an order for two regiments — one regiment is 18 systems — totaling a $350 million order for the Pinaka rocket launchers. Industry sources say India is now contemplating exporting the Pinaka.

The order will be split between the prime state-owned contractors Bharat Earth Movers Limited and the Ordnance Factories Board, or OFB, and private sector defense companies Larsen & Toubro and Tata Power SED. Under the contract, BEML will supply the vehicles for the rocket launchers; L&T and Tata Power SED will supply the launcher systems; and OFB will supply the rocket ammunition .

L&T and Tata Power SED have designed and developed the Pinaka system with the Defence Research and Development Organization, or DRDO. The Indian Army currently operates two regiments of the Pinaka systems.




"The indigenous rocket launcher system is required to meet Army's operational necessities and also to reduce dependence on foreign sources and replacing the Russian Grad BM-21 and Smerch rocket systems," an Indian Army official said. The Army needs the extended range Pinaka Mark-II at the earliest, the official added, "however, the latest order is for Pinaka Mark-I with a range of 30 kilometers even though the Indian Army had preferred Pinaka Mark-II, which has a range of up to 65 kilometers but is still under development."

Jayant Damodar Patil, head of defense and aerospace for L&T, said "Pinaka Mark-II is a developmental program of DRDO. The technical trials have been completed a couple of months back, but the induction decision is awaited."

"DRDO and Indian industry will now target to export Pinaka Mk-I," he said. However, some Army officials cited problems with the rockets of the two regiments that have been in use for more than a decade.

Bhupinder Yadav, a defense analyst and retired Indian Army major general, said there is a problem with the rocket ammunition supplied by OFB. "The production of Pinaka rockets is on hold after some quality-related issues mainly relating to OFB-produced propellant such as short ranges, residues after firings and accidents relating to burst in launchers, etc."

However, such defects occur if the propellant is non-homogeneous and have air bubbles, he asserted, adding that "the supplies of fuzes and its quality assurances is also an issue."

"Absorption of technology by OFB appears to be poor, and it (OFB) may not be able to maintain quality standards at the manufacturing stage, particularly for mass production," according to Rahul Bhonsle, a defense analyst and retired Indian Army brigadier.

No MoD official was available to comment on the problems with the rockets and their current status.

On the possibility of imports of rockets and ammunition for Pinaka, Patil said: "Rockets ammunition are expected to be ordered to OFB as well as the private industries that would take technology transfer from DRDO (which has developed the rocket ammunition)."

"No imports are likely as any imported ammunition will have to undergo detailed evaluation trials that can take years to get cleared," Patil added.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles...er-for-homemade-rocket-launchers-valued-at-2b

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

L&T gets contract to supply 100 howitzers to Army
Engineering conglomerate Larsen and Toubro (L&T) has been awarded a contract to supply 100 self-propelled howitzers to the Indian Army for nearly Rs 4,500 crore.

May 12, 2017 04:50 PM IST

Engineering conglomerate Larsen and Toubro (L&T) has been awarded a contract to supply 100 self-propelled howitzers to the Indian Army for nearly Rs 4,500 crore.

The first batch of the 155mm/52 calibre tracked self- propelled (SP) gun -- K9 VAJRA-T -- will be delivered later this year and the entire supply will be made within next 42 months.

L&T, supported by its South Korean technology partner Hanwha Tech Win (HTW), had bid for the contract in 2011.

The contract valued at about at Rs 4,500 crore is the largest order placed by the Defence Ministry (MoD) with an Indian private company, Jayant Patil, Head of Defence and Aerospace at L&T, said.

Among the four bidders, L&T emerged as the sole qualified aspirant, after a series of user trials and evaluations, based on the performance of the K9 VAJRA-T self-propelled Howitzer.

The K9 VAJRA-T gun is an enhanced version of HTW's K9 Thunder - a world class self-propelled howitzer, customised and co-developed by L&T and HTW to suit the specific requirements of the Indian Army.

HTW's K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzer is among the best in the world with over 1,000 units already in service in South Korea and few other countries.

Patil said the award of the contract affirms L&T's position as India's leading private sector defence company with capabilities to design, develop and manufacture state- of-the-art platforms and systems for the Indian armed forces.

Patil said the contract envisages delivery of the 100 guns in 42 months with associated engineering support package and maintenance throughout their life cycle.

The guns will have over 50 per cent indigenous content and will be delivered from L&T's manufacturing facilities, Patil said.

L&T had inked a deal with Hanwha Techwin (HTW) last month to jointly manufacture the self-propelled howitzers for Indian Army.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...-to-supply-100-howitzers-to-army-2277997.html

 

[mayfair]

So finally the paperwork is done.Let the supplies begin. Cannot wait to see Vajra in IA livery.

Now onto the Mounted Gun system..

 

[Prashant12]

BHARAT 52 and Garuda 105, both from Kalyani Group

https://www.facebook.com/TeamINDRA/

 

[Prashant12]

Kalyani Strategic Systems Limited exhibit Bharat-52 155mm L52 towed howitzer and Garuda 105mm ultra-light howitzer mounted on Stallion 4x4 during DRDO Exhibition held in Pune.

https://www.facebook.com/TejasMrca/

 

[Prashant12]

Kalyani Group's Bharat 52

https://www.facebook.com/TeamINDRA/

 

[Kshatriya87]

Big guns: First modern 155 mm artillery guns to land in India after the Bofors scandal of 1980s

NEW DELHI: India has now exorcised the ominous Bofors ghost haunting its artillery modernization plans for the last 30 years. In the first modern 155mm artillery guns to be inducted by the Army since the 1980s, two of the 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers ordered from the US will touch down here on Thursday morning.

Defence sources on Wednesday said the two howitzers, which will come in a chartered aircraft from the UK, will be taken to the Pokhran ranges for testing and "compilation of the firing tables" for subsequent use. "The firing tables, with the guns being tested for different kinds of Indian ammunition with bi-modular charges, will take some time to be formulated," said a source.

The delivery schedule for the air-mobile howitzers, being acquired under the $737 million deal inked with the US in a government-to-government deal, will quicken from March 2019 onwards. "Five guns will then be delivered every month till all 145 are inducted by June 2021. While the first 25 guns will be imported, the rest 120 will be assembled in India with artillery-manufacturer BAE Systems selecting Mahindra as its business partner here," he added.

The arrival of the M-777 guns, which are primarily meant for the front with China, comes soon after the government also inked a Rs 4,366 crore contract with engineering conglomerate L&T for the supply of 100 self-propelled howitzers in collaboration with its South Korean technology partner Hanwha Tech Win. These 155mm/52-calibre tracked guns called K-9 Vajra-T, in turn, are to be delivered within 42 months, as was earlier reported by TOI.

The 13-lakh strong Army has not inducted a single 155mm artillery gun since the Bofors scandal brought down the Rajiv Gandhi government, and derailed all plans for technology transfer and indigenous manufacture.

Subsequent scandals revolving around other global artillery manufacturers, like South African Denel and Singapore Technology Kinetic's, further punched gaping holes in the Army's long-range, high-volume firepower. Interestingly, the original Swedish Bofors company is now owned by BAE Systems.

The Army has been demanding 155mm/39-calibre ultra-light howitzers like the M-777s, with a strike range from 24 to 40-km depending on the kind of ammunition used, for almost 15 years now as part of the overall plan to build robust conventional deterrence against China.

Weighing just over 4-tonne due to the use of titanium, the M-777 can swiftly be airlifted to high-altitudes areas up to 16,000-feet in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control with China.

The M-777 howitzers will equip the new 17 Mountain Strike Corps, which the Army is raising by cannibalizing its existing reserves, for the China front. With two infantry divisions geared for mountain warfare, and associated artillery, air defence and armoured brigades, the 17 Corps will be fully in place with 90,274 troops by 2021.

 

[WolfPack86]

Some hours ago, the 1st two BAE Systems M777 howitzers landed in Delhi. Testbed trials shortly by the Indian Army at Pokhran. 20 to be imported from BAE's facility in the US. Remaining 120 to be assembled in India by the BAE-Mahindra partnership.
(LiveFist)
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal