Indian Army Armored Vehicles

[Sachinananda]

Those squares you see are not armour plates, they are older gen reactive armour... T72 was not designed with reactive armour, so it had to be later retrofitted with these. Worse coverage than integrated ERA, but still decent upgrade.

Another doubt if u compare any mordernized or upgraded t-72 or t-90 tanks in world they look fully covered with ERA or armour plates but in our case many spots on both tank seem to have many spots without ERA and we don't even have aps
Why?
Noob here but attained some knowledge from videos

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

But latest t-72 Indian upgrade much looks like t-90
Even if u see the t-90 in our service any spots exist without ERA like not upgrade t-72
Last question when will our all t-72 be upgraded to what @Kunal Biswas posted

Yeah T90 has a few spots without ERA, but is mostly well covered. No idea about T72 upgrade timeline.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Another doubt if u compare any mordernized or upgraded t-72 or t-90 tanks in world they look fully covered with ERA or armour plates but in our case many spots on both tank seem to have many spots without ERA and we don't even have aps
Why?
Noob here but attained some knowledge from videos

Primarily cost. It is much cheaper to put these smaller modules to cover most of the tank instead of doing a proper retrofit of ERA.
No APS because its expensive to import and ours isnt fully ready yet, AFAIK first one with Indian APS might be the DRDO light tank.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Our T72s definitely needs replacement starting as soon as fmbt/frcv gets ready. I doubt if our T72s are adequate enough to defeat anything but perhaps the simplest of rpg rockets. Although a APS can remedy this but it is more beneficial to get a deep upgrade of all T90s than the T72s.
My wishlist is a CITV, situational awareness system like Tonbo Wolfpack, better apfsds, and new types of ERA to cover sides and top against tandem HEAT. Many techs of Arjun mk1a could be easily ported to T90s. If we could achieve T90M level upgradation with addition of Wolfpack and APS, that would be great

 

[Sachinananda]

Our T72s definitely needs replacement starting as soon as fmbt/frcv gets ready. I doubt if our T72s are adequate enough to defeat anything but perhaps the simplest of rpg rockets. Although a APS can remedy this but it is more beneficial to get a deep upgrade of all T90s than the T72s.
My wishlist is a CITV, situational awareness system like Tonbo Wolfpack, better apfsds, and new types of ERA to cover sides and top against tandem HEAT. Many techs of Arjun mk1a could be easily ported to T90s. If we could achieve T90M level upgradation with addition of Wolfpack and APS, that would be greatView attachment 188282

Yeah it looks to be completely covered with ERA
But latest t-72 upgrade is not that bad

 

[abingdonboy]

Our T72s definitely needs replacement starting as soon as fmbt/frcv gets ready. I doubt if our T72s are adequate enough to defeat anything but perhaps the simplest of rpg rockets. Although a APS can remedy this but it is more beneficial to get a deep upgrade of all T90s than the T72s.
My wishlist is a CITV, situational awareness system like Tonbo Wolfpack, better apfsds, and new types of ERA to cover sides and top against tandem HEAT. Many techs of Arjun mk1a could be easily ported to T90s. If we could achieve T90M level upgradation with addition of Wolfpack and APS, that would be greatView attachment 188282

Whatever happened to FMBT? IA stopped talking about it a long time ago

an unmanned turret with 3 crew sat in the hill at the front is what the Koreans and US are showing as NG-FMBT now and it’s what DRDO had proposed for FMBT a long time back but not even an AON was requested for the project. T90 till they can find a way to get the T14 seems like a their game

 

[Eagle Eye]

Whatever happened to FMBT? IA stopped talking about it a long time ago

There is RFI for 1700 FRCV(Future Ready Combat Vehicle) to replace t 72 tank with TOT. 12 OEMs received the request.

 

[abingdonboy]

There is RFI for 1700 FRCV(Future Ready Combat Vehicle) to replace t 72 tank with TOT. 12 OEMs received the request.

Another import deal that’ll go nowhere (MRFA, P75I)

The Indian armed forces really are clueless

 

[fooLIam]

Another import deal that’ll go nowhere (MRFA, P75I)

The Indian armed forces really are clueless

I am started to think we are more or less sitting ducks due Indian army generals. Such clueless and import hungry army. .
No interest in industrial,standardisation,logistic etc things which matter and have been proved in world war 2.
What is the solution.
Political leadership does not seem to interested in handing out punishment or reforming whole officer cader.

 

[abingdonboy]

I am started to think we are more or less sitting ducks due Indian army generals. Such clueless and import hungry army. .
No interest in industrial,standardisation,logistic etc things which matter and have been proved in world war 2.
What is the solution.
Political leadership does not seem to interested in handing out punishment or reforming whole officer cader.

Blind leading the blind. The GoI doesn’t know any better, almost every attempt they’ve made since 2014 to reform the procurement process has ended in abject failure (DPP-2016, SPM, DAP etc)

the only ‘success’ have been the plethora of ‘emergency’ fast track deals almost all of which have been import solutions (no prizes for guessing why)

 

[abingdonboy]

This (DRDO’s FMBT/NGMBT) seems to have completely evaporated ever since the FRCV RFI was put out.

More capable than any tank in the neighbourhood by a good distance but more T90 it is I guess

 

[Eagle Eye]

almost every attempt they’ve made since 2014 to reform the procurement process has end in abject failure

There's talk abt cabinet rejig, Rajnath should go. Gadkri should be given a chance at MOD.

 

[Sachinananda]

There's talk abt cabinet rejig, Rajnath should go. Gadkri should be given a chance at MOD.

At this stage ministers can do nothing
It's the job and anus of PMO know if they have any intent to make any change until then given our functioning no efficient minister can change the procurement and quality of officers if they want to do things in procedure and rules
So it's on PMO
Even I have doubt whether PMO would be able to solve it as these establishments are older than this state

 

[abingdonboy]

There's talk abt cabinet rejig, Rajnath should go. Gadkri should be given a chance at MOD.

Gadakri is fine where he is. Infrastructure is essential, no point moving him on with so many projects still up in the air

I’m not sure there’s many that would make much difference in that role but RS seems particularly disinterested. parrikar was one of a kind and it’ll always be an utter tragedy that he and Rawat were lost so early (although Parrikar had already departed Delhi by the time of his death)

maybe someone like Goyal would be good in the MoD? I really don’t know. The MoD/services are a law unto themselves

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Gadakri is fine where he is. Infrastructure is essential, no point moving him on with so many projects still up in the air

I’m not sure there’s many that would make much difference in that role but RS seems particularly disinterested. parrikar was one of a kind and it’ll always be an utter tragedy that he and Rawat were lost so early (although Parrikar had already departed Delhi by the time of his death)

maybe someone like Goyal would be good in the MoD? I really don’t know. The MoD/services are a law unto themselves

What about vk Singh

 

[abingdonboy]

What about vk Singh

Haven’t seen much evidence he’s worthy of a cabinet post, he was made MoS and hasn’t been particularly outstanding there.

I also think he is too much of a loudmouth for the role and it also isn’t a good idea to have an def min and CDS has IA backgrounds

 

[Emperor Kalki]

This (DRDO’s FMBT/NGMBT) seems to have completely evaporated ever since the FRCV RFI was put out.

More capable than any tank in the neighbourhood by a good distance but more T90 it is I guess

View attachment 188375

To be fair, that was just the schematic from a paper on the next gen tank. Other than that DRDO never released any details as such. There was that other schematic from APS radar rfi or something which seemed like an evolution of the same. So they never released anything officially as NGMBT, if I am not wrong, for that to evaporate now. We can't expect DRDO to do PR with their concepts or studies like Grneral Dynamics or Rheinmetall.
We can just hope that its still in the works an would come out when it should.

 

[abingdonboy]

The more I look into armoured vehicles the more I question the IA’a demand for a light tank (other than the fact that the Russians started pushing the Sprut), what calibre gun will it have? Will it have hard kill APS? As a tank it’ll have to be designed to go up against other tanks but a sub 25t demand from the IA means the thing will be incredibly incredibly thin skinned, likely only protected up to 20mm from the front, the rest being 7.62 protected

This at a time when every modern army is inducting IFVs that are well over 35t because of protection requirements

even the US army’s MPF which is explicitly NOT a tank is over 40t


The same issue with the FICVs (again demand is less than 25 ton) . I’m really struggling to imagine how the IA is planning on fighting, their doctrine of mobility above all else seems ridiculously outdated in an age where heavy firepower is available at a squad level

 

[flanker99]

The more I look into armoured vehicles the more I question the IA’a demand for a light tank (other than the fact that the Russians started pushing the Sprut), what calibre gun will it have? Will it have hard kill APS? As a tank it’ll have to be designed to go up against other tanks but a sub 25t demand from the IA means the thing will be incredibly incredibly thin skinned, likely only protected up to 20mm from the front, the rest being 7.62 protected

This at a time when every modern army is inducting IFVs that are well over 35t because of protection requirements

even the US army’s MPF which is explicitly NOT a tank is over 40t


The same issue with the FICVs (again demand is less than 25 ton) . I’m really struggling to imagine how the IA is planning on fighting, their doctrine of mobility above all else seems ridiculously outdated in an age where heavy firepower is available at a squad level

They seem to have very little idea of our industrial capabilities and drdo's underestimating challenges dont help either

 

[abingdonboy]

They seem to have very little idea of our industrial capabilities and drdo's underestimating challenges dont help either

That’s a secondary issue (that’ll be apparent very soon though of course- asking for all the performance of an MBT but on sub-APC footprint, typical IA bs)

but I’m more interested where the doctrine to employ this has even come from, is the idea that the light tank will be acting as fire support for dismounted infantry? Acting as an anti tank asset against other MBT? Or it’s just a knee jerk reaction because the commies designed something and call it a light tank?

If they want a heavy turret on the thing they’ll have to basically do without any meaningful armour to the extent that even a heavy infantry unit will be able to disable the thing.