Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Pulkit]

Importance of twin engines is there and will always be there ,,,,
but why is the world shifting to single engine aircrafts???
just referring to F35....
DO you think its a bad machine?
why have they not added 2 engines??
Why F22 has twin engine and not F35???
Is it due to weight????
IS it stealth feature but F22 is also called stealth?????
hmmmmmm......

About our requirement IAF surely knows better but we have the right to differ...
we want to have 42 squad right...
can we maintain all the 42 squad with only sukhoi rafale or better we must go for all i mean all f35 and F22(in future if they are available )as we can afford them... that would be the best option going by your logic only sir.....
but another question how will we maintain all of them....???

again requesting not to make it personal Sir... surely you know more that me I respect it.... just be polite enuf to your yellow friends if I may call myself one.....
We are here to discuss not to proove if one is wrong or not.....

@Pulkit

A pretty good example of the importance of twin engines as advertised by a pan-European/American consortium.
Survivability - The AAS-72X+


This is so damn important for our requirements.

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

whom were you referring to when you said "stop postin stuff that is not correct"..
If u were referring to me do let me know where I went wrong?
so that i can rectify myself or justify myself...

So you should stop postin stuff that is not correct.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

The quality of Tejas is being single engine, That is what IAF requirement is ..

Single engine is what IAF wanted for its light fighters, Single engine offer low maintenance and low operational cost and high sortie rates ..

Tejas delivers it, Besides It already has Stealth coating and 70% composite airframe, It has smallest Rcs and can be comparable to those 5th generations ..

========

The information that IAF is more into Twin engine is a disinformation. In Reality that is an advertisement by foreign aviation industry competing during MRCA, For example Russian with MIG-35 and French Rafale, If what said is real than Gripen and F-16I would not compete in the competition ..

can u assure me if Tejas lets say get twin engine some day ... Stealth coating and lets all highly complex control.... will IAF accept it?
yes I am an engg who believes in luck and miracles just a request dont make it personal ...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

There are some error is quoting posts of other members, It is corrected now ..

 

[p2prada]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

at subsonic speed I just dont wanna think abt the friction it would have caused ... I seriously dont know if it was damaged what force helped it fly engines might be ... but then direction ... oh with one wing....but that cant perform alone ...

You can cut out the sir. It is unnecessary here. Use it on retired people.

Just pointing out that this is not possible on a single engined aircraft.

Also the weight of the aircraft could have given it stability at a very high speed but any tearing on the wing would have been fatal....

Just so you know, F-15 is a stable aircraft.

Regarding Tejas sir I know very little about it... But I do now it can perform .....
It might be a decade or two old aircraft but It has they aility to match all the Gen 4 aircrafts ... yes we are looking for gen 4.5 or 5 but we also need to have gen 4 you cannot give all the roles to those heavy aircrafts ....

People will keep repeating it again and again, it won't change anything.

You can try and convince me how much ever you can that a Maruti 800 is as good as a BMW M5, anybody who knows what they are talking about will understand this analogy between LCA and Rafale. Yes, this analogy is very sound in many respects.

Twin engine aircrafts do have greater ability ... going out of context F35 is single engine right...'

It won't be as capable as an equivalent twin engine design. That's why high end designs like PAKFA and F-22 are twin engine designs.

can u assure me if Tejas lets say get twin engine some day ... Stealth coating and lets all highly complex control.... will IAF accept it?

ADA said they will make something similar back in the late 90s called the MCA. It did not have a rudder or fins, meant for strike.

IAF rejected it a few years ago stating that it is not a stealth aircraft.

Anyway, the French made a twin engined Mirage-2000 called Mirage-4000, it was rejected by ALA very quickly.

Changing a single engine design to a twin engine design is worthless. A clean sheet design like AMCA is much better and that's the plan anyway. Whether ADA will deliver is debatable.

Which country has not taken time comparable to it... more or less all th eprograms have gone beyond time and cost with better machinery and tech.....

Nope. F-16 was inducted after 4 years of test flight. Mirage-2000 took 4 years too. Gripen took 9 years and LCA has taken 14 years (beginning with a promised delivery date of 5 years), with a few years of delay before that as well (5 additional years out of which 1 year was not ADA's fault, due to nuclear tests). So, that's 19 years in total, and actual delay from the date promised by ADA is 13 years. Even J-10A took only 7 years.

Original ASR released by the IAF said that the induction is to happen in 1999. Even with early delays, some of it in the early days outside ADA's control, they said they will deliver by 2006. So, no country has taken as much time comparable to LCA.

Even with all the trials and tribulations the F-35 is going through, the actual delay is just 4 years in comparison or 7 years depending on what parameter you are looking at even though it has finished over 7500 hours of flight testing in 7 years compared to 2000+ by LCA in 14 years.

To top it all off, LCA is actually inferior to all the aircraft mentioned above and we plan to induct the actual (original) version only in 2021-22.

 

[p2prada]

@Singh

Can you please check the post that was deleted? This is happening again.

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Thanks for the Info....
@p2prada same thing was what i wanted to convey ... I think I was not clear at it.....
@Kunal Biswas I agree with you on this... I was just trying to create a condition where some one might agree to what I wanna say about Tejas....

The quality of Tejas is being single engine, That is what IAF requirement is ..

Single engine is what IAF wanted for its light fighters, Single engine offer low maintenance and low operational cost and high sortie rates ..

Tejas delivers it, Besides It already has Stealth coating and 70% composite airframe, It has smallest Rcs and can be comparable to those 5th generations ..

========

The information that IAF is more into Twin engine is a disinformation. In Reality that is an advertisement by foreign aviation industry competing during MRCA, For example Russian with MIG-35 and French Rafale, If what said is real than Gripen and F-16I would not compete in the competition ..

 

[p2prada]

Importance of twin engines is there and will always be there ,,,,
but why is the world shifting to single engine aircrafts???
just referring to F35....

Who is moving towards single engine aircraft now? It has always been the same. 1000+ F-15s are inducted and 4500 F-16s. F-22 was supposed to be 1000+ as well and right now the numbers for F-35s are 3000.

Why F22 has twin engine and not F35???

The capabilities required from F-22 are significantly different. So, it has greater weight and hence needs twin engines.

About our requirement IAF surely knows better but we have the right to differ...

No, we don't have the right to differ. We have never had that right.

we want to have 42 squad right...
can we maintain all the 42 squad with only sukhoi rafale or better we must go for all i mean all f35 and F22(in future if they are available )as we can afford them... that would be the best option going by your logic only sir.....
but another question how will we maintain all of them....???

Yes. We will maintain them by paying for them.

Say a single aircraft costs $100 Million. Complete lifecycle costs would be $300 Million over 40 years. So, for a 800 aircraft fleet, it is 800*300Million over 40 years. That's $240 Billion over 40 years or $6 Billion every year. IAF's budget for last year was $12 Billion.

Oops! Has it suddenly become affordable now? Even with other flying assets brought into the picture, we can afford such a fleet even today.

Now, bring in the fact that the defence budget will keep increasing year on year at a compound rate of growth, you will realize that the actual cost of maintaining 800 such aircraft is well within our capabilities. Meaning, imagine a growth rate of roughly 10% for 40 years from today and you tell me whether it is affordable or not. With the increase in budget allocations every year, the IAF will be able to induct and upgrade at a much better rate than today.

We are here to discuss not to proove if one is wrong or not.....

You started the discussion with these intentions. And I am not being personal. For me being personal is at a whole different level.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Thanks for the Info....
@p2prada same thing was what i wanted to convey ... I think I was not clear at it.....
@Kunal Biswas I agree with you on this... I was just trying to create a condition where some one might agree to what I wanna say about Tejas....

I normally don't reply to ersakthivel or Kunal's posts because they are almost always completely devoid of correct information.

Everything that you quoted in his post is wrong.

IAF simply doesn't have the need for light fighters anymore. Light fighters do provide more sortie rates, but heavier fighters can carry two-three times more and can stay in the air two-three times longer.

Rafale can carry 8 missiles and stay in the air for 2.5 hours, MKI can carry 12 and stay in the air for 3.5 hours. LCA can carry only 4 missiles and stay in the air for 40 minutes. Taking roughly 2 sorties for MKI/Rafale and 3 for LCA, we will have 8-12 missiles in the air for 5-7 hours while LCA can manage 4 missiles for 2 hours.

With drop tanks, MKI doesn't yet have drop tanks, but Rafale can manage a 4 hour sortie, or 8 hours a day, while LCA cannot manage more than 3 hours a day. Also with repeated take offs and landings, the wear and tear on LCA will be much greater.

With inflight refueling the effect on MKI/Rafale is greatly increased with a single mission lasting anywhere between 10-16 hours while LCA still won't manage more than 2 or 3 hours a day. Basically, a squadron of MKI/Rafale can stay in the air 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. At least 3 squadrons of LCA are required to match what a single heavy aircraft squadron does.

Having greater sorties is nothing if the weapons, payload and range are incomparable.

Then there is something new called swing role, where aircraft can switch between offensive and defensive missions and switch from strike to counter air and viceversa. MKI and Rafale can do this while LCA cannot. If LCA is equipped for strike, it can handle only strike, it LCA is equipped for counter air, it can only do counter air.

You see, there are so many things that matter.

Then his post about IAF wanting twin engine fighters is "disinformation" is a joke. MKI - twin engine - 14 squadrons, Rafale - twin engine - 9 squadrons, FGFA - twin engine - 12 squadrons, AMCA - twin engine - 12 squadrons, LCA - single engine - 6 squadrons. Hilarious, you see... The current modern requirement being IMPLEMENTED by IAF is for 47 squadrons of twin engine fighters and 6 squadrons of single engine fighters. And this is all pretty much on paper.

IAF is upgrading all twin engine fighters and phasing out single engine fighters with the exception of Mirage-2000.

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Its good to know that we are able to afford all these toys...
But I asked a question Will IAF accept Tejas if all the requirements you mentioned are met?
Lets say assume
twin engine --Check
Stealth-- Check
In air Refuelling-- Check
oil Tanks-- Check
12 + Missiles-- Check
Will IAF acept tejas?
I was not feeling to say this but the way IAF is in need to accept foreign goods they are not gonna accept either AMCA or Tejas mk2 or FGFA ......
I still Mean ACCEPT they might induct a few .....
IAF dependance and trust in foreign goods is not hidden from any....
for this to some extent politics and DRDO can b held responsible ... but at last it is IAF to take a call...

I do wanna add that
I do have a right to disagree with IAF though I am in no position to force my will on them nor i wanna....
Constitution has given we right to expree my views... So if i feel some thing is notgoin good I can point that out with defense no exception....

Affordability according to you is no issue ... But for me and many Others it is a issue though not at the cost of safety of our country and we are ready to pay ....

By your description of budget I just wanna say one thing .... It will be purely wastage of money if what you suggest can happen....

And with this do you wanna say that we should always be dependent on foreign nations for our defense .
If not then the first step could have been showing faith in Tejas ... as u say we can afford anything and tejas can play ome role in IAF why not show a little more faith in it... how much will it cost 4 b thats just peanuts in front of our mamoth defense budget and our navy and army will be happy with the goods they have today feeling that IAF is developing growing and they are our real army and we our just for support....

I normally don't reply to ersakthivel or Kunal's posts because they are almost always completely devoid of correct information.

Everything that you quoted in his post is wrong.

IAF simply doesn't have the need for light fighters anymore. Light fighters do provide more sortie rates, but heavier fighters can carry two-three times more and can stay in the air two-three times longer.

Rafale can carry 8 missiles and stay in the air for 2.5 hours, MKI can carry 12 and stay in the air for 3.5 hours. LCA can carry only 4 missiles and stay in the air for 40 minutes. Taking roughly 2 sorties for MKI/Rafale and 3 for LCA, we will have 8-12 missiles in the air for 5-7 hours while LCA can manage 4 missiles for 2 hours.

With drop tanks, MKI doesn't yet have drop tanks, but Rafale can manage a 4 hour sortie, or 8 hours a day, while LCA cannot manage more than 3 hours a day. Also with repeated take offs and landings, the wear and tear on LCA will be much greater.

With inflight refueling the effect on MKI/Rafale is greatly increased with a single mission lasting anywhere between 10-16 hours while LCA still won't manage more than 2 or 3 hours a day. Basically, a squadron of MKI/Rafale can stay in the air 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. At least 3 squadrons of LCA are required to match what a single heavy aircraft squadron does.

Having greater sorties is nothing if the weapons, payload and range are incomparable.

Then there is something new called swing role, where aircraft can switch between offensive and defensive missions and switch from strike to counter air and viceversa. MKI and Rafale can do this while LCA cannot. If LCA is equipped for strike, it can handle only strike, it LCA is equipped for counter air, it can only do counter air.

You see, there are so many things that matter.

Then his post about IAF wanting twin engine fighters is "disinformation" is a joke. MKI - twin engine - 14 squadrons, Rafale - twin engine - 9 squadrons, FGFA - twin engine - 12 squadrons, AMCA - twin engine - 12 squadrons, LCA - single engine - 6 squadrons. Hilarious, you see... The current modern requirement being IMPLEMENTED by IAF is for 47 squadrons of twin engine fighters and 6 squadrons of single engine fighters. And this is all pretty much on paper.

IAF is upgrading all twin engine fighters and phasing out single engine fighters with the exception of Mirage-2000.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Its good to know that we are able to afford all these toys...
But I asked a question Will IAF accept Tejas if all the requirements you mentioned are met?

You are a mechanical engineer right? You do realize that making such a change will no longer make it LCA.

Lets say assume
twin engine --Check
Stealth-- Check
In air Refuelling-- Check
oil Tanks-- Check
12 + Missiles-- Check
Will IAF acept tejas?

Yes, because it will no longer be Tejas.

This configuration will be called AMCA. So, yeah, IAF will buy it as long as the project is successful.

I was not feeling to say this but the way IAF is in need to accept foreign goods they are not gonna accept either AMCA or Tejas mk2 or FGFA ......
I still Mean ACCEPT they might induct a few .....
IAF dependance and trust in foreign goods is not hidden from any....
for this to some extent politics and DRDO can b held responsible ... but at last it is IAF to take a call...

If I give you the money for it, will you buy a Tata Nano or a BMW M5? Consider everything is paid for, including taxes, servicing, maintenance etc and that you will drive the car extensively.

I do have a right to disagree with IAF though I am in no position to force my will on them nor i wanna....

Nope. You don't. Yeah, you can express your views, that is different. You have no right to disagree with the air force, the same as how the air force has no right to talk to the media.

Affordability according to you is no issue ... But for me and many Others it is a issue though not at the cost of safety of our country and we are ready to pay ....

You are contradicting your own statement.

By your description of budget I just wanna say one thing .... It will be purely wastage of money if what you suggest can happen....

Not if the idea is to win wars. We don't wanna simply participate in wars like we do in the Olympics. Nobody gives a damn as long as the winner is us. The best way for us to support the armed forces is to give them what they ask for and not what we think they should have.

And with this do you wanna say that we should always be dependent on foreign nations for our defense .

No. But indigenization shouldn't come at the cost of reducing capabilities. There are certain capabilities that only foreign aircraft can provide as of today. LCA was our first step at developing an indigenous industry. FGFA is our first major step at indigenization and AMCA will be our second. To support the LCA, IAF is buying 6 squadrons, that's more than enough. If LCA was a foreign aircraft, IAF wouldn't even have bothered to look at it.

In 30 or 40 years, we could be making our own 100% indigenous aircraft. That's what we are aiming for. Aircraft that will replace FGFA and AMCA in the future could be our own entirely.

And no, LCA doesn't really cost peanuts. Even LCA is expensive, just that people don't know much about how the costs work. I actually give as much or more importance to the pilot as well. I would much rather have our pilots flying superior foreign stuff than inferior indigenous stuff. The point of buying military equipment is to use it in a war, not support our industry.

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

If you agree thats not what Tejas is meant for nor can be why are u comparing it with them...
I am only saying that Tejas has a defined role it can play in IAF why not give it a chance ?

The main thought that u have in ur mind is that Tejas is just a can of tin,,,, which is definately not true,,,,

I never meant it should b given for any industry to boom wat so eva .... but just that u have to show some faith into it....

and comparing automobiles with aircrafts i totally out of the question....


Paying Taxes for safety and security of country is wat all we agree ...It is my right and duty to rectify the error or the mistake of any govt organisation
.. but I still feel IAF has SAUTELA behaviour towards Tejas......



U give no imp to budget we spend less than 2% of our GDP on defense .... winning wars at the expense of 5-6% of GDP is actually a loss....

This is a third gen war era and economics is also a part of it.... I am not asking to fit all the IAF with Tejas .....


And 6 squad are not enough....


40 aircrafts of Tejas mk1 wit tejas to only going to prod by 2020-2021....
that means at 8 aircrafts a year HAL is claiming even more than that means by 2019 the will be in IAF.... and given the record of DRDO there will b delays in TejasMK2..
And if i understand correctly AMCA and FGFA will be in full prod by then ,so why are u spending to develop MK2 ..... IN has initiated it keeping in mind everything we have in pipe line.....so IAF has also chose 80 so there is some role for them,,,,,,,

I again repeat its about trust and acceptance not about affordability....


you said something about cost ... do elaborate as i only know that just the upgradation of few aircrafts is 45mil...

In its own category it is one the most advanced aircraft available in the market keeping in mind teh technology and ability it posess....

You are a mechanical engineer right? You do realize that making such a change will no longer make it LCA.



Yes, because it will no longer be Tejas.

This configuration will be called AMCA. So, yeah, IAF will buy it as long as the project is successful.



If I give you the money for it, will you buy a Tata Nano or a BMW M5? Consider everything is paid for, including taxes, servicing, maintenance etc and that you will drive the car extensively.



Nope. You don't. Yeah, you can express your views, that is different. You have no right to disagree with the air force, the same as how the air force has no right to talk to the media.



You are contradicting your own statement.



Not if the idea is to win wars. We don't wanna simply participate in wars like we do in the Olympics. Nobody gives a damn as long as the winner is us. The best way for us to support the armed forces is to give them what they ask for and not what we think they should have.



No. But indigenization shouldn't come at the cost of reducing capabilities. There are certain capabilities that only foreign aircraft can provide as of today. LCA was our first step at developing an indigenous industry. FGFA is our first major step at indigenization and AMCA will be our second. To support the LCA, IAF is buying 6 squadrons, that's more than enough. If LCA was a foreign aircraft, IAF wouldn't even have bothered to look at it.

In 30 or 40 years, we could be making our own 100% indigenous aircraft. That's what we are aiming for. Aircraft that will replace FGFA and AMCA in the future could be our own entirely.

And no, LCA doesn't really cost peanuts. Even LCA is expensive, just that people don't know much about how the costs work. I actually give as much or more importance to the pilot as well. I would much rather have our pilots flying superior foreign stuff than inferior indigenous stuff. The point of buying military equipment is to use it in a war, not support our industry.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

If you agree thats not what Tejas is meant for nor can be why are u comparing it with them...
I am only saying that Tejas has a defined role it can play in IAF why not give it a chance ?

It isn't needed. IAF can use the extra squadrons to buy more Rafales instead, or even FGFA. It is just that we won't be manufacturing them fast enough and that's why we need 4 squadrons of LCA while we are inducting Rafales.

The main thought that u have in ur mind is that Tejas is just a can of tin,,,, which is definately not true,,,,

It is definitely true.

I never meant it should b given for any industry to boom wat so eva .... but just that u have to show some faith into it....

You don't win wars by having only faith.

and comparing automobiles with aircrafts i totally out of the question....

No. It is quite valid if you want to provide a layman with a proper answer he can understand.

.. but I still feel IAF has SAUTELA behaviour towards Tejas......

It is not a war winning aircraft. The IAF attitude towards Tejas is perfect.

U give no imp to budget we spend less than 2% of our GDP on defense .... winning wars at the expense of 5-6% of GDP is actually a loss....

No. Winning a war at even 100% of GDP on defence is a win.

This is a third gen war era and economics is also a part of it.... I am not asking to fit all the IAF with Tejas .....

What on earth is that?

And 6 squad are not enough....

It is in excess. They should have ended up with one squad of Mk1 and 2 or three squads of Mk2. Transfer the rest to the navy.

And if i understand correctly AMCA and FGFA will be in full prod by then ,so why are u spending to develop MK2 ..... IN has initiated it keeping in mind everything we have in pipe line.....so IAF has also chose 80 so there is some role for them,,,,,,,

Yes, they will escort Jaguars and fill up some numbers before 2022.

I again repeat its about trust and acceptance not about affordability....

Lol.

you said something about cost ... do elaborate as i only know that just the upgradation of few aircrafts is 45mil...

This is only for the Mirage-2000. LCA is a whole new aircraft, so actual procurement cost is much more than the cost Mirage-2000 will incur. That's because basing and personnel is already available for M-2000 while LCA's will have to be built from scratch, starting with the setting up of one or two bases in South India. So, actual procurement costs for LCA will be much higher. Then again, LCA Mk1 is cheap, but MK2 will be much more expensive, as much or much more than what Mirage-2000 costs in just fly away.

In terms of electronics, LCA Mk1 is inferior to M-2000 while Mk2 will be superior to M-2000. But in terms of core performance, Mk2 also falls woefully short of the M-2000 in many parameters.

In its own category it is one the most advanced aircraft available in the market keeping in mind teh technology and ability it posess....

It is last in the list of 4th and 4.5th gen aircraft available today. It is only better a bit better than JF-17. LCA is not even a 4.5th gen aircraft. And in the Mk2 form, it won't be a true 4.5th gen aircraft without its ability to perform swing role missions.

Look, you are arguing like a kid. You just want someone to come up and say IAF is corrupt. If you can't wake up to reality then forget it. End of discussion.

 

[Singh]

@Singh

Can you please check the post that was deleted? This is happening again.

@p2prada I have restored your post. I have removed anything remotely personal which may offend @ersakthivel and @Kunal Biswas

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Such offense should not be repeated or else measure will be taken accordingly, Continue debating ..

 

[p2prada]

@p2prada I have restored your post. I have removed anything remotely personal which may offend @ersakthivel and @Kunal Biswas

Thanks.

..............

 

[Singh]

Gentlemen, please avoid getting personal henceforth.

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

If single engined fighters are so bad from safety point of view, Why are americans and europeans planning to build close to 2000 F-35s?

IAf can afford twin engine fighters, But Europeans and US can not?

recently for a 9800 Km flight with nothing but two external fuel tanks , RAFALE needed 5 refuellings mid air,Then how can they carry 9 ton pay load for 1800 Km? Is it suicide mission?

Tejas is a 4.5th gen multi role fighter . And I have already posted links to you to learn that the max range in cold climatic conditions is not always a good indicator in indian hot climate conditions for which tejas range is given.

Fuel fraction is the key fig where tejas mk-1 comes at 27 percent and rafale at 31 percent.

Tejas mk-2 can close the gap even further with improved aerodynamics and better fuel fraction.

If PLAF buys 200 Su-35s at half the cost of 126 IAF rafales , and fields them opposite the rafale fleet what are the odds?

SU-35 has much bigger radar and more powerful Ew suite and may field ASEA in upgrades. This what I mean by paying very high for lesser capacity fighters will bleed the fighting strength of IAF and enrich the European MNCs. Nothing else.

It is stupid to narrow down the role of tejas as jaguar escort and saying it is a single role, multi capability(what in the world is that !!!??!!!)fighter.

In the recent Iorn fist exercise by IAf Tejas fired two air to air missiles and dropped two PMGs with in 100 seconds, If that is not multi role, then what is multi role?

Fuel fraction wise tejas has comparable figures in mk-1 and will have an even better fig in mk-2. And at any point of time in western airforces till this day single engined fighters out numbered twin engined fighters by a large margin.people who are not even aware of basic facts are constantly trying to misguide people here.

Mirage has a far lower TWR than tejas mk-1 itself, Some budheads will always walk around this crucial fact and claim Mirage-2000 is a mighty fighter after upgrades it will carry the same powered older engine.

 

[ersakthivel]

@p2prada I have restored your post. I have removed anything remotely personal which may offend @ersakthivel and @Kunal Biswas

This guy @p2prada has a history of racist abusive posting behavior, even though he does not even know the basics of aerodynamics. All his wrong claims were proved as motivated michief after IOC-2 specs of tejas mk-1 was released. he has never admitted that he was conclusively proved wrong on all the counts and still trying to post utterly wrong stuff as truth.

You must ask him to explain why all his previous claims on tejas like,
1.It was stuck with mach 1.4 top speed,

2.Its AOA was stuck on 16 deg,

3. Missiles fired by tejas can not be guided by a SU-30 MKI radar,

4.And IAF would not use tejas in combo with tejas unlike they used Mig-21 in combo with SU-30 MKi in red flag exercise,

5. Tejas air intake is flawed,

6. tejas in inferior to Mirage-2000(IAF award winning test pilot and grouop captain Suneet krishna himslef has said that tejas mk-1 is "at least " equal to upgraded Mirage-2000, But @p2prada he still posts the lie that mk-1 is lesser capability fighter and even mk-2 won't match upgraded Mirage-2000, a claim for which he has no credible backing. )

were all conclusively proved wron in Ioc-2 press release by ADA?

Because he was posting those same malicious info as truth for years until I conclusively proved them as lie.

You must ask him to give an explanation on why all his previous claims became wrong. If he could not offer any justifiable reason you should ask him to first admit that he has posted may wrong info on tejas and ask him to correct them first In ADA tejas thread on DFI.

Personally I don't give much for hi abusive behavior as I am sure that by dec 2014 FOC all his claims will once again be proved as lie.

But for the sake of credibility of the few threads he is intent on destroying with his motivated posts you must ask him to give account of his wrong claims on tejas mk-1 for almost three years.

For the past three years he is continuously abusing all other posters, Mods by posting such wrong info. Now he can not be allowed to go without admitting he was 100 percent wrong on all claims on tejas.

 

[Pulkit]

@Kunal Biswas in the interview you shared with the Ex army chied VK singh he said we could have bought that company is it true?
How would that have helped us? @ersakthivel I too tried to convince him but he has made his mind... one day Tejas itself will proove him wrong...

This guy @p2prada has a history of racist abusive posting behavior, even though he does not even know the basics of aerodynamics. All his wrong claims were proved as motivated michief after IOC-2 specs of tejas mk-1 was released. he has never admitted that he was conclusively proved wrong on all the counts and still trying to post utterly wrong stuff as truth.

You must ask him to explain why all his previous claims on tejas like,
1.It was stuck with mach 1.4 top speed,

2.Its AOA was stuck on 16 deg,

3. Missiles fired by tejas can not be guided by a SU-30 MKI radar,

4.And IAF would not use tejas in combo with tejas unlike they used Mig-21 in combo with SU-30 MKi in red flag exercise,

5. Tejas air intake is flawed,

6. tejas in inferior to Mirage-2000(IAF award winning test pilot and grouop captain Suneet krishna himslef has said that tejas mk-1 is "at least " equal to upgraded Mirage-2000, But @p2prada he still posts the lie that mk-1 is lesser capability fighter and even mk-2 won't match upgraded Mirage-2000, a claim for which he has no credible backing. )

were all conclusively proved wron in Ioc-2 press release by ADA?

Because he was posting those same malicious info as truth for years until I conclusively proved them as lie.

You must ask him to give an explanation on why all his previous claims became wrong. If he could not offer any justifiable reason you should ask him to first admit that he has posted may wrong info on tejas and ask him to correct them first In ADA tejas thread on DFI.

Personally I don't give much for hi abusive behavior as I am sure that by dec 2014 FOC all his claims will once again be proved as lie.

But for the sake of credibility of the few threads he is intent on destroying with his motivated posts you must ask him to give account of his wrong claims on tejas mk-1 for almost three years.

For the past three years he is continuously abusing all other posters, Mods by posting such wrong info. Now he can not be allowed to go without admitting he was 100 percent wrong on all claims on tejas.