Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[silverghost]

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Since we are talking about A2A.
Canards of j-10c are not that effective for evasive maneuver. And porkies bought non TVC chinese engines.
Astra Mk2 with dual pulse will match PL-15.
Tejas also has 9 hardpoints .



I don't think Turkey is allowed to sell it to porkies.



Yes , Astra mk1 let alone MK2 is superior to Aim120c. Hopefully we might see launch vid soon.

In African expo HAL had banner showing astra mk1-2 under already inducted list with TEJAS.

If all that you say is true why don't we just order 200 Mk1a & who cares whether Mk2 comes in 2028 or 2030? Also, why is the Chief of Air staff keep insisting on MRFA 2.0? What additional capabilities does he want that can't be provided by Tejas Mk1A? (Do note that MRFA 2.0 is not about stealth).

 

[NutCracker]

If all that you say is true why don't we just order 200 Mk1a & who cares whether Mk2 comes in 2028 or 2030? Also, why is the Chief of Air staff keep insisting on MRFA 2.0? What additional capabilities does he want that can't be provided by Tejas Mk1A? (Do note that MRFA 2.0 is not about stealth).

Because Mk2 will be proper multirole because of 60-70% more payload capacity.
It could carry Brahmos and more GPB for Ground based attack.

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Because Mk2 will be proper multirole because of 60-70% more payload capacity.
It could carry Brahmos and more GPB for Ground based attack.

Bramhos weigh around 2.5 ton can it really be carried by mk2, right now only su30 is carrying it not even mig29

 

[NutCracker]

Bramhos weigh around 2.5 ton can it really be carried by mk2, right now only su30 is carrying it not even mig29

Brahmos NG will be 1.3-1.6 tonnes.

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Brahmos NG will be 1.3-1.6 tonnes.

Brahmos ng is being pitched for mk1a too, it will be integrated even befor mk2 prototype comes out

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Brahmos ng is being pitched for mk1a too, it will be integrated even befor mk2 prototype comes out

Given that the missile is ready in 2025

 

[NutCracker]

Brahmos ng is being pitched for mk1a too, it will be integrated even befor mk2 prototype comes out

It's Inboard pylon limit is 1.2T.. so dont be too optimistic about it.

 

[silverghost]

Because Mk2 will be proper multirole because of 60-70% more payload capacity.
It could carry Brahmos and more GPB for Ground based attack.

Do you then agree that both J10C & F16 are superior to Mk1A in payload capacity & therefore have better ground attack capability? Also, what does MRFA 2.0 add to what is planned in Mk2?

 

[NutCracker]

Do you then agree that both J10C & F16 are superior to Mk1A in payload capacity & therefore have better ground attack capability?

Yea J10 and F16 have higher payload.
But since you asked below specific question i gave answer related to A2A scenario.

Can the Mk1A take on Chinese J10C & F16 Blk 52 that PAF will use against India?

Also, what does MRFA 2.0 add to what is planned in Mk2?

It's adds nothing.. MRFA2.0 is MK2 killer .
Just get 54 more RafaleF4 + 27 Rafale-Marine and dump the MRFA2.0.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

It's adds nothing.. MRFA2.0 is MK2 killer .
Just get 54 more RafaleF4 + 27 Rafale-Marine and dump the MRFA2.0.

Gov might settle on orders before the next elections. Right now the ACM is busy explaining how badly we need the MRFA, to precondition the populace, so masses don't get triggered when a large order is placed. IAF will likely insist on a minimum 6 squadrons of Rafale in total.

 

[LondonParisTokyo]

Mig 21 may have gotten lucky (you don't have to take my word for it, ask anybody including IAF pilots). Also, F16 Blk 52 is not ancient, most of them were pressed into service in USAF in 2002. In fact, the bulk of USAF F16s is Blk 52 & Blk 60 which are now being upgraded.

Mig 21 is ancient

 

[WolfPack86]

India arming Russian Mi-17 helicopters with Israeli NLOS anti-tank guided missiles
India plans to arm its Russian chopper fleet with Israeli NLOS ATGMs which can hit ground targets from distances up to 30 kms.

By Manjeet Negi: In a step towards enhancing its firepower against enemy armoured regiments, India is arming its Russian Mi-17 helicopters with the Israeli ‘Non-Line of Sight (NLOS)’ anti-tank guided missiles.

The ATGMs can fly low in mountainous areas and can hit ground targets from distances up to 30 kms, top government sources told India Today.

According to the sources, the missiles have already arrived in the country and are being deployed on Russian helicopters somewhere in the western sector.

The Indian armed forces are implementing the lessons learnt from the Russia-Ukraine conflict where tanks and anti-tank missiles have come into play in a big way. The Ukrainian forces have used the anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles supplied by the Western European nations and America effectively against the Russian armoured columns, sources said.

India is also likely to deploy these armed choppers in the high mountainous terrain in Ladakh and adjoining sectors where the Chinese have positioned a large number of their armoured regiments.

India arming Russian Mi-17 helicopters with Israeli NLOS anti-tank guided missiles

India plans to arm its Russian chopper fleet with Israeli NLOS ATGMs which can hit ground targets from distances up to 30 kms.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[blackleaf]

Do you then agree that both J10C & F16 are superior to Mk1A in payload capacity & therefore have better ground attack capability? Also, what does MRFA 2.0 add to what is planned in Mk2?

Most of Pakistan's air force is going to be JF-17. They have 18 relatively modern f-16 block 52 and they will have some number of J-10s but the bulk of their air force will remain JF-17s for decades to come.

The Air Force needs fighters urgently and tejas mk1 is the only one that is available right now and can be procured in number. It may not have the rage and payload to carry out deep strikes in China or even Pakistan but as a point defence fighter it is more than adequate to face the hundreds of JF-17s on the Pakistan border. Even point defence against the J-10 and F-16 blk52 isn't beyond its ability. The Tejas with its smaller composite airframe should have a much smaller RCS than the SU-30mki and probably smaller than the J-10 and F-16 too. The Tejas mk1a will have a modern AESA that will be more advanced than what is on their f16 blk52 and probably at least as good as what they have on the J-10. Also it will carry the ASTRA 1 and 2 which will have similar capabilities to whatever Chinese and American BVR missile they have. So despite smaller range and payload the Tejas mk1 should have decent chance in BVR against Pakistan's F-16s and J-10s.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Better arm twist Russia for full TOT Mig 35. We mix it with our locally made components. Mig 35> F16

There is nothing much for TOT that they can offer and we don't have. Mk2 offers better bang for bucks.

 

[JBH22]

There is nothing much for TOT that they can offer and we don't have. Mk2 offers better bang for bucks.

Mig 35 is a decent platform if we get the full TOT, from building the airframe to engine. If they offer 100%.
MK 2 is still on drawing if ever it materialises.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Mig 35 is a decent platform if we get the full TOT, from building the airframe to engine. If they offer 100%.
MK 2 is still on drawing if ever it materialises.

It was in 2010 around... Not now. If we get some second hand 29s for stop gap yes. But nothing else.

The delta canard of Tejas with GE engine offer a better deal now specially being Indian . Only other single engine fighter jet that is tempting is Gripen NG.



We already have superior Sukhoi which need to be upgraded and once done we don't need anything else.

If we had an upgrade plan of Sukhoi by IAF running on , i would have strongly opposed even Rafale for whatever it may be.


Mig 35 is what Mig 29 was supposed to be but it is too late now for us. Also with all these sanctions sword we don't have to take that route.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

If all that you say is true why don't we just order 200 Mk1a & who cares whether Mk2 comes in 2028 or 2030? Also, why is the Chief of Air staff keep insisting on MRFA 2.0? What additional capabilities does he want that can't be provided by Tejas Mk1A? (Do note that MRFA 2.0 is not about stealth).

Both MK1 & MK1A are Light weight aircraft with little internal space for fuel & sensors... hence no internal room for SPJ & MAWS... SPJ(ELL-8222SB) is already externally carried on pylon & now they are planning Pylon mounted MAWS & IRST

So when pylons get occupied with fuel tank, SPJ/IRST... all which are required for flying in a contested airspace... how many weapons would the aircraft carry?

So there are capability constraints... hence MK1 & MK1A would do well for defence of own airspace & Standoff bombing of enemy territory but is not good for DPSA(Deep penetration strike aircraft) role.

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Mig 35 is a decent platform if we get the full TOT, from building the airframe to engine. If they offer 100%.
MK 2 is still on drawing if ever it materialises.

Air force is getting rid of all Russian junk except su30 so there's no question of mig 35.
Russians weapons export industry is pretty much dead now

 

[JBH22]

Air force is getting rid of all Russian junk except su30 so there's no question of mig 35.
Russians weapons export industry is pretty much dead now

Unlikely it's going to be dead. (To this day US,Russia and France remain the only nations that can build whole array of weaponry from nuclear submarines to aircraft).
Challenges are there, but I guess they are in a better position than the 90s.

 

[johnj]

On paper, J10C is what we want Mk2 to be. It has everything that we would like Mk2 to have e.g. weapon-carrying capacity (11 hardpoints), higher G limits, Canards, AESA radar, and P15 BVR missiles plus they have been refining it for close to 15-20 years. The RCS, ITR, STR info. are classified but one shouldn't underestimate your enemy.

F16 though old is a combat-proven veteran with many kills against Russian fighter jets. It's a benchmark using which single-engine jets are measured. Also, the F16 can be equipped with AIM 120C, and 120D (not sure if Pakistan has 120D, but who knows they might have gotten some through Turkey).

I don't think other than Rafales we have anything in our inventory which have matching capabilities. Can a Mk1 take on F16 blk 52 with AIM 120C one on one?

No aim120c7/c8/d in paf.
Can a Mk1 take on F16 blk 52 with AIM 120C one on one? - its depend on israel/drdo spj/ew pod.
Except stealth aircraft LCA capable of defending/intercept any jet including mki,j10.f16,j16 etc
we still using mig21 and used to intercept f16, jf17.