India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

BON PLAN

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The latest F-16 are way better than Mirage 2000 any given day.. F-16 is more maneuverable, can carry more range of weapons, For heaven sake.. dont say Radar.. are you suicidal? The latest F-16 sports an AESA... operational AESA.. can you say that any of the Mirage 2000 in service has an AESA?
Do the Maths please F-16 = AESA + Longer range AMRAAM vs Mirage 2000 RDY + MICA...
F-16 will take the Mirage 2000 down in BVR .. now thats F-16 and Tejas that can take down Mirage 2000
Even the latest upgrade is more like trying to upgrade a PET bottle. still a scrap
Because you're angry just to see my avatar, you haven't read all the previous posts.
We were speaking about F16-50/52. At this time no AESA in it. AESA just on block 60.
Mirage 2000 is only superseed by any F16 in low altitude. Not in medium and high. But as usual, if you say F16 is better in all altitude, at the end you will persuade yourself ! but only yourself.

and.... how many block 60 in service? 80. it's a minority among F16 fleet.
 

BON PLAN

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French forgot about their revenge on IS already? Typical french,, all BS talk, and when its time to deliver on promises.. they piss their pants.. how typical French
Carrier is in Mediterranean sea. Near Syria, where another IS bastion is.
Mirage 2000 stay in Jordania, and Rafale stay in UAE... and continue stricking.
 

Tactical Frog

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The IF and the big if..using the idea of commonality, it makes more sense to go for MiG-29 since you stressing on the word Commonality... Rafale in service with IAF as of now = 0, We are already using MiG-29 for IAF as well as MiG-29K for navy,, so based on your French logic that you mentioned where does that go?
Already Indian navy has more than 40 MiG-29K in operation and they are very happy with it, then ordering Rafale M does in a way goes against your foresaid logic.. Do think about it,
I did think about it ! The Indian Navy already dreams of Rafale M days and nights for its third carrier. Just wait and see, adorable smestarz !
 

smestarz

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Because you're angry just to see my avatar, you haven't read all the previous posts.
We were speaking about F16-50/52. At this time no AESA in it. AESA just on block 60.
Mirage 2000 is only superseed by any F16 in low altitude. Not in medium and high. But as usual, if you say F16 is better in all altitude, at the end you will persuade yourself ! but only yourself.

and.... how many block 60 in service? 80. it's a minority among F16 fleet.
The debate and to what I replied was F-16 vs Mirage 2000 and then coming on the latest versions of both. still mirage 2000 is inferior to F-16 even to F-16 Block 52. Why else would the all knowing IAF top brass send MiG-29 to escort Mirage 2000 ? They did not want the Mirage 2000 to be shot down too easily..
 

smestarz

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I did think about it ! The Indian Navy already dreams of Rafale M days and nights for its third carrier. Just wait and see, adorable smestarz !
That remains to be seen, the best part is that the armed forces can show interest in many things, at some point they did show interest in knowing more about F-35.. but does not mean we are buying that..You frogs are sooo cute..
 

smestarz

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Actually looking at http://www.deccanchronicle.com/1502...eal-aero-india-anil-ambani-buys-2-falcon-jets
seems that Anil Ambani too likes Falcons.

Whatever you think of Egypt, it has not a small air force at all, with more than 200 F-16 in service. And they still wanted better than F-16 with Rafale.
This part is interesting,, did you know that for the now cancelled MMRCA, Reliance was the partner for Dassault? And then when he is supposed to be with Dassault and seen buying planes of competitors its bad for business. Maybe Dassault gave him a good discount hoping that he could help to get the Rafale deal signed..
Now, Ambani got the planes, and Dassault cannot sell Rafale to India.

Egypt has more than 200 F-16, they dont have active conflict with any country, their country is facing unrest and rising food shortage where the president recently went on record to say "I would sell myself if I coud...." and they still purchased Rafale.. what is your logic for that?

The logic being that he wanted one of the UNSC country to support him no matter what.. He is not a democratically elected leader.. the french apparently the champions of Democracy selling weapons to a non democractically elected leader.. IT is only to ensure that France will support Egypt in any move against them in UNSC... Libya tried that but too late..
 

smestarz

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Carrier is in Mediterranean sea. Near Syria, where another IS bastion is.
Mirage 2000 stay in Jordania, and Rafale stay in UAE... and continue stricking.
There are no reports of success of Rafale strikes.. Guess the IS knows how to fool the French already.. Lol
 

Immanuel

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Don't need to receive lessons from a guy like you !

Rafale is naturally more stealthier than SH. It's well known. Just see difference in size. Just see how the emports are outcanted on SH... not good for stealth and for aerodynamic.
Conformal tanks were fitted on Rafale before SH.
Indeed Rafale team take Silent Eagle and SH to develop stealthy containers.
Well, I doubt that, looking at the way Rafale's IFR sticks out, the SH's RCS might be just as low, there is nothing to prove Rafale is stealthier than the SH. Moreso, neither of the aircraft are stealthy and as soon as you put a single bomb on either, any modern AESA or phased array can spot them from miles away and Spectra can't do jack against modern radars.
 

Immanuel

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SH is a super no for IAF ,IAF will sallow its pride and take Gripen .My choice is Mig 35
I doubt that, ACM Naik during the trials did clarify that the US had the best avionics and weapons in the trials. Gripen won't happen since LCA matches. Super Hornet is the only suitable choice unless LM does a twister and offers the F-35 for local assembly in India. Mig-35 is out of the question as Mig Corp. itself is barely hanging by a thread.
 

Immanuel

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Mirage 2000 and Mig29 come no where close to the F-16 even with the latest upgrades.
Depends what upgrades you talk about, F-16 Block 60+ aircraft are deadly indeed sporting AESA but vanilla Block 52s will have a lot of problems with Mig-29 UPG, the Mirage is fair game and the better pilot lives.
 
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Immanuel

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Speaking of IAF Mig-29 UPG

"...MiG-29UPGs, sporting the new Zhuk-M2E radar made by Phazotron-NIIR, the OLS-UEM infrared search-and-track system (IRST) similar to the Indian Navy MiG-29Ks, thermal / TV / laser imaging made by Moscow-based NPK SPP, multi-functional full-colour LCDs in the cockpit, increased fuel capacity and an in-flight refuelling system. Moreover the aircraft feature the more powerful RD-33 series 3 turbo-jet engines."

" Indian most-modern Fulcrums are set to have non-Russian equipment, like a sat-nav system from French Sagem, a helmet-mounted targeting system from French Thales, an Indian indigenous electronic warfare suite and Israeli-made electronic counter measures. Added Indian systems come from HAL and Bharat Dynamics."

http://airheadsfly.com/2014/04/21/indian-air-force-mig-29s-best-on-the-block/

Pakistan has no idea what it is up against. Mirage 2000I & Mig-29UPG shall be overkill. Add to that Tejas coming in with Python & Derby. Su 30 MKIs sporting MICA, R-77 , Novator K-100, Astra, Brahmos ....phew !
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Let's not get too cocky, the F-16 Block 52 armed with Aim-120C5 is a formidable threat for the upgraded Mirages. In this case, its a tie and the better pilot with the better tactics lives. Mig-29 UPG has an advantage over the Block 52 both in BVR, WVR and dogfights. Its very naive to underestimate an F-16, its one of the most widely used aircraft and its very capable over-all. The Israelis for instance have honed excellent F-16 tactics to clock work and the Indian air force is an excellent operator of the Mig-29, so much so that quite some years back India sent a squadron of its pilots to operate a squadron of F-16s while Israeli sent their pilots to operate a squadron of Mig-29s on exchange for over a year.
 

Immanuel

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I did think about it ! The Indian Navy already dreams of Rafale M days and nights for its third carrier. Just wait and see, adorable smestarz !
Let me assure you, Indian Navy isn't dreaming of the Rafale, its actually still dreaming about what it's third carrier will look like, when it wakes up, it will realize the Rafale is just too late in the timelines for it to be usable. India's third carrier won't be ready for another 10 atleast. Rafale is just not suitable by then. Let's wait if the IAF gets the Rafale in the 1st place, that too is highly questionable.
 
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BON PLAN

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The debate and to what I replied was F-16 vs Mirage 2000 and then coming on the latest versions of both. still mirage 2000 is inferior to F-16 even to F-16 Block 52. Why else would the all knowing IAF top brass send MiG-29 to escort Mirage 2000 ? They did not want the Mirage 2000 to be shot down too easily..
You are speaking of Kargil in 1999.... Mirage was a old version (you were on of the first to be delivered in the 80's).
With the new M2000 india is going to upgrade, no need of an escort.
 

Bahamut

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I doubt that, ACM Naik during the trials did clarify that the US had the best avionics and weapons in the trials. Gripen won't happen since LCA matches. Super Hornet is the only suitable choice unless LM does a twister and offers the F-35 for local assembly in India. Mig-35 is out of the question as Mig Corp. itself is barely hanging by a thread.
Mig 35 has 50 confirmed sales yo Egypt jet for and talks are on 100 + jet for RuAF to be ordered this year plus we can customized the Mig 35 and as a platform has more potential for upgrades ,In air to air combat,SH does not come close and Mig 35 has a more better TVC engine and weapons already exist in IAF and newer Russian and Indian missile for PAK FA can be easily configured for it.
 

smestarz

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I doubt that, ACM Naik during the trials did clarify that the US had the best avionics and weapons in the trials. Gripen won't happen since LCA matches. Super Hornet is the only suitable choice unless LM does a twister and offers the F-35 for local assembly in India. Mig-35 is out of the question as Mig Corp. itself is barely hanging by a thread.
Would we able to afford F-35 hahaha.
 

smestarz

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You are speaking of Kargil in 1999.... Mirage was a old version (you were on of the first to be delivered in the 80's).
With the new M2000 india is going to upgrade, no need of an escort.
The new Mirage upgrade,, does it come with AESA? Look at the best Mirage 2000 in operation and the best F-16 in operation..
F-16 Block 52 that PAF uses has AMRAAM,, long range,,, M2000 does not have antyhing bigger than MICA
AMRAAM is far better than MICA in terms of Range, the only thing that can keep PAF F-16 B52 from vaping IAF Mirage 2000 are escort of MiG-29 with R-77 or Su-30 MKI with same missile
 

Bahamut

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The new Mirage upgrade,, does it come with AESA? Look at the best Mirage 2000 in operation and the best F-16 in operation..
F-16 Block 52 that PAF uses has AMRAAM,, long range,,, M2000 does not have antyhing bigger than MICA
AMRAAM is far better than MICA in terms of Range, the only thing that can keep PAF F-16 B52 from vaping IAF Mirage 2000 are escort of MiG-29 with R-77 or Su-30 MKI with same missile
To be fair to Mirage 2000 and IAF ,IAF does not want it to combat F 16 but rather as multi role fighter bomber capable of self escort and with training the IAF gives to its pilots a BVR is very difficult ,F 16 will need to come and fight with WVR and I donot think so that Mirages will go without Mig 29 ,Su 20 MKI or Rafale escorting them
 

Immanuel

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Mig 35 has 50 confirmed sales yo Egypt jet for and talks are on 100 + jet for RuAF to be ordered this year plus we can customized the Mig 35 and as a platform has more potential for upgrades ,In air to air combat,SH does not come close and Mig 35 has a more better TVC engine and weapons already exist in IAF and newer Russian and Indian missile for PAK FA can be easily configured for it.
Egypt is still considering the Mig-35. The deal is not done yet. Super Hornet had the best avionics on offer during MRCA including the most capable AESA. In A2A, the SH deploys the best of Unkil Sam's arsenal everything from Aim-120Ds to SDBs. The Mig-35 comes no where close to the all round abilities of the SH. SH is capable of extensive bombing missions, mini awacs roles, buddy tanking to other platforms like S-70s (deal to be signed for IN).

The SH also carries more load out to longer ranges. The need of the hour for IAF is for multirole aircraft; Mig-35 is a great air defence fighter but we don't need another air superiority fighter, we have Mig-29s, MKIs for those roles. SH is a jack of all trades and since day 1 was the ideal aircraft for the MRCA. SH also happens to be one of the most reliable aircraft in service, USN loves this puppy due to its rugged capability and reasonable operating costs.

Mind you this is not a ringing endorsement for the SH, though a great aircraft, in the timelines of tomorrow, the only fit aircraft for local production are PAKFA/FGFA and F-35.
 

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