India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

[Bahamut]

Mirage 2000 and Mig29 come no where close to the F-16 even with the latest upgrades.

They do ,the latest is block 60 used bu UAE and a variant of that was the proposed F 16 IN super viper and it failed to impress the IAF and IAF found it to be inferior to latest mig 29 amd Mirage 2000 standard.

 

[Hamza Baloch]

They do ,the latest is block 60 used bu UAE and a variant of that was the proposed F 16 IN super viper and it failed to impress the IAF and IAF found it to be inferior to latest mig 29 amd Mirage 2000 standard.

Please compare the stats, Mirage 2000 cant even compete against block 1 of the F-16.

Mirage 2000 is being phased out by the rest of the world and Mig-29 is known to have one of the highest crash rates in the world.

 

[Ved]

Upgraded Mirage 2000 and Mig 29UPG are more than capable of anything PAF has in its stock at present including the block52+ variant. R77 missiles fired by MIG29UPG will decimate the F16 any block at bvr.
For that matter the Tejas with derby ER and python5 will kill F16 block52 any day.

 

[Bahamut]

@Hamza Baloch
Mig 29 SMT
Data from MiG-29M data,[38] Warfare.ru,[39] GlobalSecurity.org[40]

General characteristics

• Crew: 1 or 2
• Length: 17.37 m (57 ft)
• Wingspan: 11.4 m (37 ft 3 in)
• Height: 4.73 m (15 ft 6 in)
• Wing area: 38 m2 (409 ft2)
• Empty weight: 13,380 kg (29,498 lb)
• Loaded weight: 17,500 kg (38,581 lb)
• Max. takeoff weight: 26,500 kg (58,422 lb)
• Powerplant: 2 × Klimov RD-33MK afterburning turbofans, 9,000 kgf (88.26 kN, 19,840 lbf) each

Performance

• Maximum speed:
  • High altitude: Mach 2.0 (2,100 km/h, 1,491 mph)
  • Low altitude: Mach 1.14 (1,400 km/h, 932 mph)
• Ferry range: 2,000 km (1,700 km for Mig-29M2) (1,240 mi) / 3,000 km with 3 drop tanks (1,860 mi) (2,700 km for Mig-29M2)
• Service ceiling: 16,000 m (Mig-29M)/ 16,200 m (Mig-29M2) (52,493 ft / 53,149 ft)
• Rate of climb: 330 m/s[39] (65,000 ft/min)
• Wing loading: 442 kg/m2 (90.5 lb/ft2)
• Thrust/weight: 1.02
• Maximum g-load: +9.0 g

Armament

• 1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
• 9 under wing, weapons hardpoints plus a centerline hardpoint for up to 5,500 kg (12,125 lb) of external fuel and ordnance
• Air-air missiles: 8 × R-73E, 8 × R-77 (RVV-AE), 4 × R-27
• Air-surface missiles: 4 × Kh-29T(TE), 4 × Kh-31A, 4 × Kh-31P, Kh-35E
• Guided bombs: 4 × KAB-500Kr
• Unguided bombs: 4 × FAB-500
• Cluster bombs: 4 × RBK-250, 4 × RBK-500, 4 × RBK-750
• Unguided rocket pods: 4 × S-8 rocket pod, 6 × S-25 rockets

Avionics

• Phazotron Zhuk-ME radar New radar capable of detecting air targets at ranges up to 120 km, track-while-scan of ten targets and attack of four targets at a time These give the aircraft of single seat an operation range of 2,000 km with internal fuel, 3,200 km with three fuel drop tanks, and 6,000 km with three drop tanks and in-flight-refueling F 16 block 52
  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 49 ft 5 in (15.06 m)
  • Wingspan: 32 ft 8 in (9.96 m)
  • Height: 16 ft (4.88 m)
  • Wing area: 300 ft² (27.87 m²)
  • Airfoil: NACA 64A204 root and tip
  • Empty weight: 18,900 lb (8,570 kg)
  • Loaded weight: 26,500 lb (12,000 kg)
  • Max. takeoff weight: 42,300 lb (19,200 kg)
  • Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F110-GE-100 (for F-16C Block 50) afterburning turbofan
    • Dry thrust: 17,155 lbf (76.3 kN)
    • Thrust with afterburner: 28,600 lbf (127 kN)
  Performance
  
  • Maximum speed:
    • At sea level: Mach 1.2 (915 mph, 1,470 km/h)[66]
    • At altitude: Mach 2[2] (1,320 mph, 2,120 km/h) clean configuration
  • Combat radius: 340 mi (295 nmi, 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with four 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs
  • Ferry range: 2,280 nmi (2,620 mi, 4,220 km) with drop tanks
  • Service ceiling: 50,000+ ft[2] (15,240+ m)
  • Rate of climb: 50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
  • Wing loading: 88.3 lb/ft² (431 kg/m²)
  • Thrust/weight: 1.095
  • Maximum g-load: +9.0 g
  Armament
  
  • Guns: 1 × 20 mm (0.787 in) M61A1 Vulcan 6-barrel Gatling cannon, 511 rounds
  • Hardpoints: 2 × wing-tip Air-to-air missile launch rails, 6 × under-wing, and 3 × under-fuselage pylon (2 of 3 for sensors) stations with a capacity of Up to 17,000 lb (7,700 kg) of stores
  • Rockets:
    • 4 × LAU-61/LAU-68 rocket pods (each with 19/7 × Hydra 70 mm rockets, respectively)
    • 4 × LAU-5003 rocket pods (each with 19 × CRV7 70 mm rockets)
    • 4 × LAU-10 rocket pods (each with 4 × Zuni 127 mm rockets)
  • Missiles:
    • Air-to-air missiles:
      • 2 × AIM-7 Sparrow
      • 6 × AIM-9 Sidewinder
      • 6 × AIM-120 AMRAAM
      • 6 × IRIS-T
      • 6 × Python-4
    • Air-to-ground missiles:
      • 6 × AGM-65 Maverick
      • 4 × AGM-88 HARM
      • AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile (JASSM)
    • Anti-ship missiles:
      • 2 × AGM-84 Harpoon
      • 4 × AGM-119 Penguin
  • Bombs:
    • 8 × CBU-87 Combined Effects Munition
    • 8 × CBU-89 Gator mine
    • 8 × CBU-97 Sensor Fuzed Weapon
    • 4 × Mark 84 general-purpose bombs
    • 8 × Mark 83 GP bombs
    • 12 × Mark 82 GP bombs
    • 8 × GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb (SDB)
    • 4 × GBU-10 Paveway II
    • 6 × GBU-12 Paveway II
    • 4 × GBU-24 Paveway III
    • 4 × GBU-27 Paveway III
    • 4 × Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) series
    • 4 × AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW)
    • Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD)
    • B61 nuclear bomb
    • B83 nuclear bomb
  • Others:
    • SUU-42A/A Flares/Infrared decoys dispenser pod and chaff pod or
    • AN/ALQ-131 & AN/ALQ-184 ECM pods or
    • LANTIRN, Lockheed Martin Sniper XR & LITENING targeting pods or
    • Up to 3 × 300/330/370/600 US gallon Sargent Fletcher drop tanks for ferry flight/extended range/loitering time or
    • UTC Aerospace DB-110 long range EO/IR sensor pod on centerline
  Avionics
  
  • AN/APG-68 radar
  • MIL-STD-1553 bus [231] Mirage 2000
  • 
    General characteristics
    
    • Crew: 1
    • Length: 14.36 m (47 ft 1 in)
    • Wingspan: 9.13 m (29 ft)
    • Height: 5.20 m (17 ft)
    • Wing area: 41 m² (441.3 ft²)
    • Empty weight: 7,500 kg (16,350 lb)
    • Loaded weight: 13,800 kg (30,420 lb)
    • Max. takeoff weight: 17,000 kg (37,500 lb)
    • Powerplant: 1 × SNECMA M53-P2 afterburning turbofan
      • Dry thrust: 64.3 kN (14,500 lbf)
      • Thrust with afterburner: 95.1 kN (21,400 lbf)
    Performance
    
    • Maximum speed: Mach 2.2 (2,530+ km/h, 1,500+ mph) at high altitude/ 1,110 km/h (690 mph) at low altitude
    • Range: 1,550 km (837 nmi, 963 mi) with drop tanks
    • Ferry range: 3,335 km (1,800 nmi, 2,073 mi) with auxiliary fuel
    • Service ceiling: 17,060 m (59,000 ft)
    • Rate of climb: 285 m/s (56,000 ft/min)
    • Wing loading: 337 kg/m² (69 lb/ft²)
    • Thrust/weight: 0.7 at loaded weight
    Armament
    
    • Guns: 2× 30 mm (1.18 in) DEFA 554 revolver cannon, 125 rounds per gun
    • Hardpoints: 9 total (4× under-wing, 5× under-fuselage) with a capacity of 6,300 kg (13,900 lb) external fuel and ordnance
    • Rockets: Matra 68 mm unguided rocket pods, 18 rockets per pod
    • Missiles:
      • Air-to-air missiles:
        • 6× MBDA MICA IR/RF(Mirage 2000-5, Mirage 2000-9, Mirage 2000 I)
        • 2× Matra R550 Magic-II and 2× Matra Super 530D (Mirage 2000 C)
      • Air-to-surface missiles:
        • 2× AM.39 Exocet (Mirage 2000 EG, Mirage 2000-5 Mk2)
    • Bombs:
      • Unguided:
        • Mk.82
      • Guided:
        • PGM 500 and PGM 2000 modular guided bombs (Mirage 2000-9)
        • 2× AS-30L laser-guided missile (Mirage 2000 D)
        • 2× GBU-12 laser-guided missile (Mirage 2000 D, Mirage 2000 C & Mirage 2000 N with external laser designation)
        • 1× GBU-16 laser-guided missile (Mirage 2000 D, Mirage 2000 C & Mirage 2000 N with external laser designation)
        • 1× GBU-24 laser-guided missile (Mirage 2000 D, Mirage 2000 C & Mirage 2000 N with external laser designation)
        • 2× GBU-49 laser-guided missile (Mirage 2000 D)
        • 1× ASMP tactical nuclear cruise missile (Mirage 2000 N)
    Avionics
    
    • Thomson-CSF RDY (Radar Doppler Multi-target) radar (Mirage 2000-5)
  • Which Fighter Plane is the No:1 in the Indian Subcontinent in the BVR(Beyond Visual Range) arena?
    Updated 17th April 2012
    *Article written before Rafale and Super-Sukhoi acquisition by the IAF*
    
    Official Specs says Zhuk-ME on board Mig-29K & Mig-29SMT upgrade has a detection range of 120km for a 5m2 target. Using the Radar-Range-RCS equation which states that the detection range varies with the fourth root of the RCS((New RCS/Old RCS)^0.25 * Radar Range for Old RCS), it becomes possible to calculate the range of the radar for different RCS values.
    For 20m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 170km
    For 15m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 158km
    For 12.5m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 151km
    For 10m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 143km
    For 8.5m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 137km
    For 3m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 106km
    For 1m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 80km
    
    
    Official Specs says N-011M BARS onboard Su-30MKI has a detection range of 140km against a clean MiG-29, whose unofficial RCS is 5m2. Further the Radar Manufacturer(NIIP) is offering a BARS radar with a higher power output or a higher power transmitter, if the export client is interested. The basic version which offers a detection range of 140km for clean MiG-29 has a peak power output of 4-5kw, and hence has an 1.2kw average power output. NIIP is offering as high as 5kw average power output, 4 times the power output of the basic version, if the export customer wishes for it. This lead to some speculations that some N-011M BARS radar variants have a high power output, and hence a higher range than the 140km given above. The precise range for this version is not known. Whether this radar is in-service with the Indian Air force is also not known. And even if it is with the IAF, how many of these high powered N-011M BARS radar equipped Su-30MKI there are is also impossible to determine. Hence under these circumstances, only confirmed news and data can be taken into account.
    140km detection range for 5m2 target. Hence:
    For 8.5m2, BARS detection range is 160km
    For 3m2, BARS detection range is 123km
    For 1.5m2, BARS detection range is 104km
    For 1m2, BARS detection range is 94km
    
    
    An internet blog of some individual, posted a pic claiming to be the official brochure from CETC. It claims that the KLJ-7 onboard JF-17 has a detection range of 105km for a 5m2 target. However, PAF isn't too fond of this radar eventhough it has the same range as the APG-68(V)9 on F-16block52 & RDY-2 on Mirage-2000-5/-9(both radar's range according to official specs), & more range than RC-400 radar. Even in its most powerful form(meaning the version with the largest antenna, which the JF-17 cannot house due to its relatively small nose), the RC400 has 20% less range than the RDY-2 radar. RC-400 is the radar which the PAF is planning to equip their second block of JF-17 according to current reports. The APG-68(V)9 has a bigger antenna(bigger radar-dish/bigger antenna gives more range) than the KLJ-7, plus it is manufactured by Northrop Grumman, a more mature and advanced Military-Industrial complex than CETC by a large margin. And APG-68(V)9 & APG-68(V)10 are THE best & latest mechanically scanned array type radars on F-16s(Both APG-68(V)9 & APG-68(V)10 have the same range[Reference 17]). Like the APG-68(V)9 & APG-68(V)10, KLJ-7 is also a mechanically scanned array type radar. So the claim that the KLJ-7 has the same range as APG-68(V)9 seems more unlikely. Also is the fact that the PAF preferred a far lesser ranged RC-400 over the KLJ-7 radar. All this is fueling speculation that KLJ-7's true specs is lower than publicized by the closed-to-scrutiny Chinese Defence Establishments. This speculation turned out to be true when Janes Defence Weekly published that the Radar Range of KLJ-7 is actually 75km for a 3m2 Target.[Reference/Source 8]
    KLJ-7 has a 75km detection range for 3m2 Target. Hence:
    For 20m2, KLJ-7 detection range is 121km
    For 15m2, KLJ-7 detection range is 112km
    For 12.5m2, KLJ-7 detection range is 107km
    For 10m2, KLJ-7 detection range is 101km
    For 8.5m2, KLJ-7 detection range is 97km
    For 5m2, KLJ-7 detection range is 85km
    For 1m2, KLJ-7 detection range is 57km
    
    APG-68(V)9 has a 105km detection range for 5m2 Target. Hence:
    For 20m2, APG-68(V)9 detection range is 149km
    For 15m2, APG-68(V)9 detection range is 138km
    For 12.5m2, APG-68(V)9 detection range is 132km
    For 10m2, APG-68(V)9 detection range is 125km
    For 8.5m2, APG-68(V)9 detection range is 120km
    For 3m2, APG-68(V)9 detection range is 92km
    For 1m2, APG-68(V)9 detection range is 70km
  • 
    RCS figures are confidential. However unofficially there are some figures available on the internet. They are:
    Clean(meaning payload/ammunition not loaded) F-16 after Block 30, which includes block 52 - 1.2m2
    Clean Mig-29B & Mig-29SMT - 5m2
    Clean Su-30MKI - 10m2 to 15m2
    
    JF-17 without RAM, its RCS would be more than a Clean F-16 block 52 which has RAM & is planform. F-16 block25 & the previous variants, which are planform in construction but without RAM, were said to have an RCS of 3m2-5m2, when clean. JF-17's TWR isn't very high, and adding RAM would mean increasing the weight. So we can expect little or no RAM on JF-17. Also, JF-17 isn't very planform in construction but has DSI and is a smaller aircraft. So lets consider a favorable assumption that the RCS of a clean JF-17 is as low as 2.5m2.[Reference 1]
    
    Su-30MKI's RCS when carrying full 8000kgs AG load is said to be 20m2.[Reference 2]
    
    Lets take Su-30MKI's clean RCS as 11.5m2, higher than a standard Su-27, due to canards & the extra seat.
    
    Mig-29K's RCS is officially confirmed to be 4-5 times less than a old Mig-29, due to composites & RAM. So taking an average value between 4 & 5 = 4.5. When the unofficial RCS of 5 is divided by 4.5 we get an RCS of 1.11. "Considerable increase of flight range is also gained due to increased capacity of drop fuel tanks and in-flight refueling capability (with the possibility to refuel from the aircraft of the same type). Due to special coatings Mig-29K radar reflecting surface is 4-5 times smaller than of basic MiG-29."[Reference 3]
    
    It's well known that RCS increases with external payload. JF-17 cannot carry larger payloads. Its load carrying capacity is only 7900lbs or less than 3600kgs. This compared to Su-30MKIs 8000kgs, Mig-29K's 5500kgs, & F-16's 7500kgs. So only a nominal increase of 2.5m2 RCS is taken into consideration for the JF-17. Eventhough Mig-29K carries less payload than a F-16 or Su-30, a RCS increase more than F-16's is considered for calculations, in order to get a uniform RCS. This is done purely for the ease of comparison, but as a result of this the MiG-29K's RCS figure is much more than what it would be been. In the end:
    
    Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Mig-29SMT as 8.5m2, 3.5m2 more.
    Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Mig-29K as 5m2, 3.9m2 more.
    Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded F-16 Block 52 as 5m2, 3.8m2 more.
    Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded JF-17 as 5m2, 2.5m2 more.
    Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Su-30MKI as 15m2, 3.5m2 more.
    
    
    With these RCS values and the above radar ranges, you can now see which fighters will be detecting their opponent fighters first... and first tracking which almost linearly follows detection.
    
    Mig-29K will detect:
    Su-30MKI at 158km
    Mig-29SMT at 137km
    F-16 Block 52 at 120km
    JF-17 at 120km
    
    F-16 Block 52 will detect:
    Su-30MKI at 138km
    Mig-29SMT at 120km
    JF-17 at 105km
    Mig-29K at 105km
    
    Su-30MKI will detect:
    Mig-29SMT at 160km
    F-16 Block 52 at 140km
    JF-17 at 140km
    Mig-29K at 140km
    
    Mig-29SMT will detect:
    Su-30MKI at 158km
    F-16 Block 52 at 120km
    JF-17 at 120km
    Mig-29K at 120km
    
    JF-17 will detect:
    Su-30MKI at 112km
    Mig-29SMT at 97km
    F-16 Block52 at 85km
    Mig-29K at 85kmMig-29K comes out as the clear winner. If provided with a long range BVR weapon which could match its powerful radar, Mig-29K navalised version will come out as the BVR winner.
    Su-30MKI follows the Mig-29K Naval Fulcrum.
    Mig-29SMT & F-16 Block-52 are tied at third, followed by the JF-17.
    
    Additional References:
    Radars & their Ranges on their respective Fighters
    Zhuk-ME (on Mig-29 Upgrade & Mig-29K)
    Can Track- 10 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 120 km
    Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 100.8 km (Tracking range is 0.83 - 0.85 of the detection range)
    Reference 4
    
    N-011M BARS (on Su-30MKI)
    Can Track- 15 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km
    Reference 4
    Reference 5
    Reference 25
    Reference 25 - Translation 1
    Reference 25 - Translation 2
    
    Kopyo-21I
    Can Track- 8 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 57 km
    Reference 4
    
    Kopyo-M
    Can Track- 10 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
    Reference 4
    (Mig-21 Bison has Kopyo radar. Some Bisons are equipped with Kopyo-21I and some with Kopyo-M.)
    
    Grifo-S(Range of the largest antenna version)
    Can Track- 10 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 93 km
    Reference 6
    
    KLJ-7 (on JF-17)
    Can Track- 10 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
    Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 75 km
    Reference 8
    Reference 9
    
    BARS-29 (Similar to MKI radar, but is newer, & its antenna adapted to Mig-29's smaller nose)
    Can Track- 15 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 120 km
    Reference 10
    Reference 11
    
    Irbis-E (on Su-35S)
    Can Track - 30 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
    Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km(mean of 350 and 400km)
    Reference 13
    Reference 13 - Translation 1
    Reference 13 - Translation 2
    Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km
    Reference 18
    (Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km)
    (Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km)
    
    APG-77 (on F-22A)
    Max Track for 1 sqm RCS - 200 km
    Reference 12
    Reference 14
    
    APG-81 (on F-35)
    Max Track for 1 sqm RCS - 160 km
    Reference 12
    Reference 14
    
    Captor-M (on EF-2000)
    Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 185 km
    Reference 14
    Reference 12
    
    Zaslon-M (on Mig-31)
    Max Detection for 19 / 20 sqm RCS - 400 km
    Reference 12
    Reference 23
    Reference 24
    (Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 282.8 km)
    
    RBE-2 (on Rafale)
    Can Track - 40/8 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
    Max Track for 30 sqft(2.8sqm) RCS - 60nm(111.12 km)
    Max Detection for 30 sqft (2.8sqm) RCS - 75nm(138.9 km)
    Reference 22
    Reference 15
    (Max detection for 5m2 RCS - 160.6km)
    (Max track for 5m2 RCS - 128.5km)
    
    RDY-2 (on mirage 2000-5/-9)
    Can Track - 8 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 105 km
    Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
    Reference 14
    
    RC-400 (Smaller radar based on RDY-2. Range of the largest antenna)
    Can Track - 8 Targets
    Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 84 km
    
    APG-68 (V)9 (on F-16 Block 52)
    Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 105 km
    Reference 16
    Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
    Reference 14
    
    APG-66(V)2 (on F-16 MLU)
    Max Detection for 6 sqm RCS - 74 km
    Max Detection for 0.8 sqm RCS - 50 km
    Reference 19
    Reference 20
    Reference 21
    (Assuming 6sqm for F-4 to be accurate and invoking the radar-range-RCS equation for 0.8sqm of T-37, the result is 45km, which almost tallies with the given range of 50km, thus proving the validity of the RCS and hence the ranges.)
    
    
    

 

[shankyz]

Time to enlighten Pakis :

Upgraded Mirage 2000 I :
- Samtel-Thales MFD
- Advanced IFF system
- Full Glass cockpit
- NV capability + Helmet Mounted cueing system
- EW package
- Thales RDY-2 Doppler MMR radar

and MICA BVR missile package

It will have the PAF F-16s for breakfast , lunch and dinner.

2 upgraded birds already delivered to IAF.

Sent from Moto G using Tapatalk

 

[shankyz]

Speaking of IAF Mig-29 UPG

"...MiG-29UPGs, sporting the new Zhuk-M2E radar made by Phazotron-NIIR, the OLS-UEM infrared search-and-track system (IRST) similar to the Indian Navy MiG-29Ks, thermal / TV / laser imaging made by Moscow-based NPK SPP, multi-functional full-colour LCDs in the cockpit, increased fuel capacity and an in-flight refuelling system. Moreover the aircraft feature the more powerful RD-33 series 3 turbo-jet engines."

" Indian most-modern Fulcrums are set to have non-Russian equipment, like a sat-nav system from French Sagem, a helmet-mounted targeting system from French Thales, an Indian indigenous electronic warfare suite and Israeli-made electronic counter measures. Added Indian systems come from HAL and Bharat Dynamics."

http://airheadsfly.com/2014/04/21/indian-air-force-mig-29s-best-on-the-block/

Pakistan has no idea what it is up against. Mirage 2000I & Mig-29UPG shall be overkill. Add to that Tejas coming in with Python & Derby. Su 30 MKIs sporting MICA, R-77 , Novator K-100, Astra, Brahmos ....phew !
Sent from Moto G using Tapatalk

 

[dawingman]

IAF needs a fighter on the lines of the F16. Cheap (when originally conceived). just plain cheap. < 20-25 million USD/aircraft. No aircraft fits the bill.

 

[Bahamut]

IAF needs a fighter on the lines of the F16. Cheap (when originally conceived). just plain cheap. < 20-25 million USD/aircraft. No aircraft fits the bill.

IAF needs a fighter on the lines of the F16. Cheap (when originally conceived). just plain cheap. < 20-25 million USD/aircraft. No aircraft fits the bill.

Options are Mig 35 and Gripen at around 30 -35 million dollar each if ordered in correct number.

 

[b2mishra06]

My choice would be latest models of F-16 but i think IAF wouldnot agree. they will settle for Gripen most probably coz its cheap

 

[dawingman]

Gripen is inferior to LCA. Highly unlikely that the IAF will settle for that.

As a new user of DFI, the emails I get from this forum are not encrypted. Have you faced security issues with this forum ?

 

[shade]

Gripen is inferior to LCA. Highly unlikely that the IAF will settle for that.

As a new user of DFI, the emails I get from this forum are not encrypted. Have you faced security issues with this forum ?

Lol if the swedes are ready to bribe the IAF top officials then LCA will suddenly be inferior

 

[garg_bharat]

Gripen is inferior to LCA. Highly unlikely that the IAF will settle for that.

Your statement is subjective. Can you prepare a tabular comparison?

 

[BON PLAN]

\\

Yes, I have been to Egypt. Egypt is a very small country very poor country compared to India. There is no comparison. They bought 24 Rafale by generous loans from French banks and a big gift from the Saudi King. Even then they made a mistake. They should have gone for Su30 or F-16 or F18. And I do believe a properly outfitted F/A-18 SH will be just right for India; one fighter for IAF and Navy. I do not believe you will be able to sale Rafale to Modi-Parrikar combo. You missed your chance with Sonia. You should have swallowed your French pride, twist the price and signed the deal with India for 126 jets. It will cost Dussault big and I predict that it will be bankrupt in about five years. Even with Egypt and UAE orders. If India doesn't buy 36 jets, NO country in the world will touch Rafale. You simply don't know how to sell. Hire some Gujrati MBAs from IIM.

Only an American guy can say that.
Dassault in bankrupt? Never. They already depend mainly on civilian business jets. And all is OK on that.
To sell a fighter is mainly a political affair. Not a commercial one. And you, US people, knows that perfectly well.

 

[BON PLAN]

Mirage 2000 and Mig29 come no where close to the F-16 even with the latest upgrades.

Typically a US noob answer.
Mirage 2000-5 and -9 are at least equal to F16.
The F16 is only marginally better in low altitude. In mid and high altitude Mirage is largely better. Speed, manoeuvrability, radar...

 

[BON PLAN]

Please compare the stats, Mirage 2000 cant even compete against block 1 of the F-16.

Mirage 2000 is being phased out by the rest of the world and Mig-29 is known to have one of the highest crash rates in the world.

Are you mad?
Mirage 2000 is on duty in :
France,
Greece,
Egypte,
India,
Taiwan,
UAE

Only for Peru I'm not sure. It seems they (Peru) want to upgrade it.

 

[smestarz]

If Rafale deal gets through : both IAF and Indian Navy will lobby for extra Rafales. It is called " commonality". You can' t go against that logic. Another way of putting things would be to say : the cuckoo is in the nest.

The IF and the big if..using the idea of commonality, it makes more sense to go for MiG-29 since you stressing on the word Commonality... Rafale in service with IAF as of now = 0, We are already using MiG-29 for IAF as well as MiG-29K for navy,, so based on your French logic that you mentioned where does that go?
Already Indian navy has more than 40 MiG-29K in operation and they are very happy with it, then ordering Rafale M does in a way goes against your foresaid logic.. Do think about it,

 

[smestarz]

Binpln is and was a part / member at that forum

I know he is and he has read that, because I did see him debate that time and asked for "link" and that time vstol did tell him very clearly.. and the other French guy Picdel.. he did not argue with vstol knowing about Vstols reputation.. But then BP is French (even when he occasionally sports the union jack) but then none of the French are perfect.. This is the country which went tor having lunch when the Germans attacked during WW2. The germans had to stop the advance because what was holding back their supply was the fleeing refugees..

 

[smestarz]

Typically a US noob answer.
Mirage 2000-5 and -9 are at least equal to F16.
The F16 is only marginally better in low altitude. In mid and high altitude Mirage is largely better. Speed, manoeuvrability, radar...

The latest F-16 are way better than Mirage 2000 any given day.. F-16 is more maneuverable, can carry more range of weapons, For heaven sake.. dont say Radar.. are you suicidal? The latest F-16 sports an AESA... operational AESA.. can you say that any of the Mirage 2000 in service has an AESA?
Do the Maths please F-16 = AESA + Longer range AMRAAM vs Mirage 2000 RDY + MICA...
F-16 will take the Mirage 2000 down in BVR .. now thats F-16 and Tejas that can take down Mirage 2000
Even the latest upgrade is more like trying to upgrade a PET bottle. still a scrap

 

[smestarz]

Tss tss tss.... our carrier were in zone until the next days. Now it is going near Lybia.

Change of tabloid please. It will be easier than to change of brain as you are unable to make a difference between BS and real interesting news.

French forgot about their revenge on IS already? Typical french,, all BS talk, and when its time to deliver on promises.. they piss their pants.. how typical French

 

[BON PLAN]

I know he is and he has read that, because I did see him debate that time and asked for "link" and that time vstol did tell him very clearly.. and the other French guy Picdel.. he did not argue with vstol knowing about Vstols reputation.. But then BP is French (even when he occasionally sports the union jack) but then none of the French are perfect.. This is the country which went tor having lunch when the Germans attacked during WW2. The germans had to stop the advance because what was holding back their supply was the fleeing refugees..

My dear Smestarz, I'm interesting in your complete post....

After that, and only after I can answer.