India to kick-off 5th-Gen. fighter aircraft-AMCA development project

guru-dutt

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Considering the low oil prices, I doubt the Arabs can anymore 'maintain' a wh0re like Pakistan ;)
well its that there economy is down not the bank balances of saudi and UAE royal families they sure can have a RANDI called al bakistan
 

Yumdoot

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that would be my thinking too , but unfortunately we are not in the decision-making circuits of the IAF

all these IAF decision making are not just MBA quality but actually they are PHD quality , so far ahead of me that i just can't figure out what they are doing ...they should be writing case studys for complicated decision making on any harvard business school mba program or other top usa university

they are far too talented to be in a mere air force ?

...and yet our main problems are from china ( army and airforce ) and similarly with Pakistan it is the air force and army which are more important....but we keep Navy at the fore-front .....again i think these folks who make such decisions are too good for india .....they should be doctorate decision makers teaching at usa univs ...not just any ol uni , but only at the very very best
<snip>
I read sometime back that we are working with the Russians on 3D thrust vectoring to be used in any engine of Indian make or with TOT.

Heh heh frustrated, exasperated, confounded. Just like me. But its not just about the IAF. IAF is merely the most visible, most expensive, most stupid manifestion of a phenomena that is, to some extent or the other, exhibited by everybody around us. IAF is not an organization in the current context when I say the aforesaid. IAF is the IAF brass. Because it is the Brass that decides what should be done and why it should be done by IAF. IOW, the IAF brass is not a leadership, instead its a Soch. Like the way Congress ek Soch hai. Kale Angrez ek Soch hain. And all three of them - the Congress, the Kale Angrez and the IAF brass came from within us, Indians. All three of them would much rather not be an Indian. They do not want to bet on India. They do not want to admit the truth to the Indians. They would rather live and advocate like a foreigner. Merely holding the Indian passport and a cushy positions in the hierarchy of the ruling class is the main attraction of life and the only thing more exciting would be the belief in the hindu concept of re-birth when hopefully they would live with the foreigners. But till then…..


What has over the years bewildered me is the way we Indians have been and still are taken for a ride. If you see closely the recent assembly elections in Delhi, you will get a hang of the template used to befool us. The day the ‘Royal Indian XYZ’ became the ‘Indian XYZ’ without any goddamned change in kathani-karni, achar-vichar-sanskaar, is the day the people of India, should have asked if it was all a ruse to exploit the veerta and paurush of the lower echelons of the armed forces to sustain a bunch of people who select their own types to propagate their own foreign roots.


For much of our lives we have been told that Indian armed forces are suffering a paucity of Officers. I mean, come on man, how come not one Indian took these sorry sobs to task for saying that. Cannot people see that the human resource that runs the world is being told that they are not good enough to decide how they should be protecting themselves.


Many a times I have asked myself how and why did the idea of LCA came up in the first place. Was it not obvious to the people in earlier times that larger airframes will give more room to experiment and have a larger margin of safety. Or was it the exact thing that was sought to be a prevented from falling into the hands of the Garib-Kala people of India. If a poorer country like Russia with a much larger strategic footprint could understand all that then how come our people went in for ‘small is beautiful’. For whom was it beautiful? Was it beautiful for the country that needed to protect itself or was it beautiful for the people who could burn resources in ‘miniaturizing’ technologies. Are we better served by miniaturization or by rationalization of technology. And how will the AMCA escape the fate that befell LCA. When the LCA was mooted it was supposed to have nearly everything indigenous. After 20+ years of ‘interest being shown by stakeholders’ we get (not yet) a mongrel. Now after LCA perhaps our people could have thought of the heavier fighters or of starting with an available engine or of starting with a High Marginal Safety Naval Version. But noooooo sir, we get something else which is supposed to be the latest greatest and for which we should be thankful again. While the powers that be, decide what to import and under what pretense.


Today our people celebrate importing of a second hand RCS testing facility without even asking if it was really absolutely necessary. Today we have people within the establishment are planting stories that our Indian guidance systems do not cut it. And all this while the funding is always hogged by the same set of unmoving, unrepentant, unanswerable, irresponsible bosses who have the galls to tell the Supreme Court of the land that they have their own ‘Succession Plan’ and go on to to recommend to the Parliament that the acquisitions and imports should be decided by this set of Succession Planned Officer Class. WT_, are we a stupid Arab country or a Subverted Zika-Virused Latin country where a bought off bumbling idiot will decide what needs to be done.


Do you ever find yourself wondering if it’s a plan to have all the rotary wings hollered inside the IAF so they can always act like Captain America. Damn the idea of developing capacity for our own disaster relief agencies. Whose agenda has this served?


Do you ever wonder that if a country like China could set itself free from the infiltration of these western shopkeepers, ultimately designing and developing its own weapons and then going on to fight with its own weapons. Or that if a country like Russia that has a smaller economic capacity than ours can design its own weapons, what stops us from bettering these countries. Hell even a two bit refugee usurper country like Israel, nearly 150 times smaller than our population is doing its own weapons. How come our armed forces brass knows with such certainty that we Indians cannot do it for ourselves.


I think we have to change ourselves first before we ask this Succession Planned Top Brass to change its ways. First we must ask if this is the best we deserve. Unless we do that our people will always find themselves importing weapons, importing technology, importing manufacturing, importing the fcuking swipe-phones, importing stuff because we do not ourselves do it.


First indigenize the human resource then we can begin to think of doing the rest. Sardar Patel had put forth a very valid question when he asked if the Muslims of India who had voted for Pakistan suddenly became patriotic when on August 15, 1947 they decided to stay put in India. But I guess Sardar was not courageous enough to have questioned similarly the armed forces brass who were just doing their job for the ‘King and the Empire’ till August 14, 1947 and then suddenly became patriotic on August 15, 1947.


As I said this is not limited to merely IAF brass. Even the Indian Navy, admittedly the most localized of forces, has its own warts and moles. And that is why I request you not to accuse the IAF, when the problem is with the Brass. IAF (the working operational part of it) is as much a used and abused entity, as you and me, perhaps several times more so. Hum to kose ke alag ho jayenge, unko to bhugatna padta hai.
 

archie

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yes they can be so can be israel but i dont think they will but israel can as japan is already testing its own 5th gen fighter and have moved to 6th gen
Japan is at least 4-5 years away from home grown fighter.. thats what the news report says and AMCA is on that similar time frame..
 

guru-dutt

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Japan is at least 4-5 years away from home grown fighter.. thats what the news report says and AMCA is on that similar time frame..
wrong japan has already unvieled its 5th gen prtotype whose testing will start in feb 2016 and by july 2017 they will start inducting it while we dont even have a prototype of AMCA japnese will take 5-8 years for inducting there 6th gen fighter
 

kaboom!

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wrong japan has already unvieled its 5th gen prtotype whose testing will start in feb 2016 and by july 2017 they will start inducting it while we dont even have a prototype of AMCA japnese will take 5-8 years for inducting there 6th gen fighter
have the japs developed their own engine or are they sourcing from someone(US)?
either ways i think they are around a decade ahead of us.....your thoughts?
 

Bahamut

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wrong japan has already unvieled its 5th gen prtotype whose testing will start in feb 2016 and by july 2017 they will start inducting it while we dont even have a prototype of AMCA japnese will take 5-8 years for inducting there 6th gen fighter
F 3 Sunshine is a prototype for future Japaneses stealth fighter .It derivatives might replace F 2 ,but India and Japan have very different needs .The IOC will not start before 2019 plus it going to very expensive ,only Japan will buy it.
Does any one know about the engine of AMCA. Engine tech from PAK FA is not there so are we going to buy engine or develop one.
 

guru-dutt

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have the japs developed their own engine or are they sourcing from someone(US)?
either ways i think they are around a decade ahead of us.....your thoughts?
japs are already decades ahead of us and dont forget it was japs who first had AESA radar in a fighter and were the first to develop multi seeker head air to air missile (with IIR & AESA based active radar seeker)
 

guru-dutt

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F 3 Sunshine is a prototype for future Japaneses stealth fighter .It derivatives might replace F 2 ,but India and Japan have very different needs .The IOC will not start before 2019 plus it going to very expensive ,only Japan will buy it.
Does any one know about the engine of AMCA. Engine tech from PAK FA is not there so are we going to buy engine or develop one.
well japnese also have the common enemy and that is china
 

tsunami

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Japanese themselves accept the time line of the fighter for 2027.

Also Indian and Japanese requirements are very different. We do share a same enemy but that enemy shares sea with Japan and mountains with India. That changes every thing.
 

salute

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Japanese themselves accept the time line of the fighter for 2027.

Also Indian and Japanese requirements are very different. We do share a same enemy but that enemy shares sea with Japan and mountains with India. That changes every thing.
india also got ocean to protect from all threats.
 

tsunami

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india also got ocean to protect from all threats.
That's my point Japan only have see to defend, we have see mountain desert. Japan might not need a fighter good at CAS but we do. In the name of strike Japan mostly need good anti shipping missiles and even if their fighter is not a good strike platform it's not that bad for them but we need everything.
 

archie

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wrong japan has already unvieled its 5th gen prtotype whose testing will start in feb 2016 and by july 2017 they will start inducting it while we dont even have a prototype of AMCA japnese will take 5-8 years for inducting there 6th gen fighter
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/01/28/japan-first-stealth-fighter-unveiled-x2-sdg-orig.cnn

Where is 6th Gen?? this is the second home grown fighter aircraft since WW2...

If jap can collaborate with AMCA we get some new tech .. canopy coating and jet engine so on..

Im not saying design the same aircraft.. we can use collaboration for technology and maybe testing

And they are looking for international partnership

http://www.wsj.com/articles/japan-unveils-first-stealth-fighter-1453977421
 
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Dessert Storm

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IAF wants mix of heavy and medium stealth aircraft, I think LCA mark 2 with stealth capabilities, AMCA and FGFA will be composition of Indian Airforce of the furure.
Well..... we'll have 123 LCA too. So category wise L M H is what we will have, with or without FGFA, for the next 2 decades or so.
* LCA is stealthy cuz of size and composites. RAM coatings in future too.
 

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