India-Pakistan LoC/IB Skirmishes in the Aftermath of August 5 2019

[sorcerer]

3 pigs again got roasted today.

BBQ on a Tuesday!
with 30 characters!

 

[fire starter]

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[fire starter]

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[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

One Jawan and Police Personal achieved Veergati today in encounter with Pisslam Terrorists in Awantipora District of J&K. Two out of three Pisslam Terrorists have also been Dispatched to Narak by the Rashtriya Rifles. Reports say the last one might have escaped from the CASO Area. Rashtriya Rifles will expand the Cordon and Search Operations to neighboring Villages to find the last Pisslam Terrorist. The Jawan and J&K Police SPO are the First Indian Casualties in 2020.

 

[Indrajit]

View attachment 41844 .............................

Actual, the first picture has the artist in it, Maj.Gen JFR Jacob flew into Dhaka with just 3000 men at the outskirts of the city and managed to bluff the Pakistanis into an unconditional surrender......if ever there was an example of military chutzpah, that was it.

 

[sorcerer]

10 long operating terrorists killed in J&K in 20 days


Srinagar, Jan 21 (IANS) At least 10 local terrorists who were operating in Jammu and Kashmir for the past two-three years have been killed in the last 20 days this month, a police officer said.

The top brass of the security forces in Jammu and Kashmir attribute the spurt in gunfights between the security forces and terrorists during this month to "actionable intelligence inputs" and not to any recent infiltration from across the border.

 

[sorcerer]

JK DGP directs officers to ‘deal strictly’ with elements pushing youth towards terrorism

SRINAGAR: Jammu and Kashmir Police chief Dilbag Singh on Tuesday directed his officers to deal strictly with elements involved in radicalising the youth of the Union Territory and pushing them towards terrorism.

 

[sorcerer]

Defence ministry okays procurement of ₹5,100 crore indigenous equipment"

• The govt approved prototype testing of trawl assemblies designed by DRDO for T-72 and T-90 tanks
• The govt approved shortlisting of Indian Strategic Partners and the potential OEMs that would collaborate with SPs to construct 6 conventional submarines in India

https://www.livemint.com/news/india...rore-indigenous-equipment-11579612299405.html

 

[ezsasa]

I wonder if there is scope for IA to ask for 8-9 tonne heli purely for rapid troop insertion and exfil, along with proper armour to protect the troops built in.

Dhruv is primarily a utility heli, why not build a new one primarily for withstanding at the least incoming steel core rounds coming it’s way in forward areas. And this time having heavy calibre weapon mounts on both sides built into the design.

 

[sorcerer]

I wonder if there is scope for IA to ask for 8-9 tonne heli purely for rapid troop insertion and exfil, along with proper armour to protect the troops built in.

Dhruv is primarily a utility heli, why not build a new one primarily for withstanding at the least incoming steel core rounds coming it’s way in forward areas. And this time having heavy calibre weapon mounts on both sides built into the design.

There is some talks about India trying to buy some heavy troop lifting helis..
Heard it last month ..or so

 

[Knowitall]

There is some talks about India trying to buy some heavy troop lifting helis..
Heard it last month ..or so

Won't simply buying more chinnok fulfill our needs.

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

Won't simply buying more chinnok fulfill our needs.

Yes that’s true but when has the MoD made the right choices in its existence.

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

OFF TOPIC

Who do you guys think funds these? I mean Myanmar is Pro-India and so is Bangladesh to a certain extent through there government. So China?

 

[Indrajit]

Theres way more to story than that.........porki couldn't escape and mukiti bahni was harassing them they were going to be tortured to death if taken captive by mukti bahini ,
We had complete Air superiority , surrounded pakis from all side , Pakis had to come out of their positions to attack eventually and get slaughtered in a well laid defensive trap , or they were gonna run out of supplies and ammo courtesy of mukti bahini raids,
So it was a matter of WHEN not If.......

They might have been in large numbers but they were surrounded ,choked and stuck in their positions.
Mr jacob sensed the porki fear and fast tracked the process , saving a few 100s of our soldiers 1000s of mukti bahini guirellas and 93000 of Paki mard e converteds.

That’s debatable, there was plenty of pressure on India to agree to an immediate ceasefire and the Soviet Union which had blocked all resolutions at the UNSC had indicated that they won’t be able to continue doing that and that India may need to look at a ceasefire. That’s why the Gen Jacaob’s handling of the situation was so extraordinary. The Pakistanis were looking at a ceasefire, not a surrender and I don’t think many on the Indian side thought there was more on offer than that. Gen Jacob not only bluffed through but actually pushed the Pakistanis into surrender by saying to Niazi that he assumes an agreement to surrender even though Niazi didn’t actually agree to a surrender formally. After the war, Niazi kept accusing Gen Jacob of blackmailing him to surrender whenever he was asked about why he agreed to it.

As I said before, that was military chutzpah at its best.

 

[Berkut]

India was occupied by British. India was plundered by British. Yet some indians joined british army and slaughtered fellow indians. You're right. This isn't treason. This is worse. This is madness.

Yes you are right, some Indians did but many many didn't. Just like some Indians converted to Islam but many many didn't.

It's very simple to call it treason though tempting it might be. You cannot apply today's morals on those times. If the king of your princely state extols you to take up arms, you do. You slowly find it is a white man commanding you. This happened a LOT. Some went in for pure lively hood reasons. Mind you, no social media during those times to make one part of the army aware what another regiment somewhere else did (after 1857, censorship was strictly enforced by the British)

But it is this army that woke up, when a nationalist Bose made a clarion call and rebelled. The British couldn't hold on to her prized colony for more than a few years after that.

 

[Indrajit]

Look man pakis were not willing to fight and pressure was there on us from start US sent their nuke subs , more importantly like i said mukti bahini was harassing pakis and paki soldiers who were captured were being brutally tortured by them, stories were spread all over , that has a psychological effect on pakis stuck there ,
like i said they were surrounded and cut off from outside world ,they did not know what was happening outside ,they wanted a way out ,
No one can be bluffed into surrendering with 93000 trained soldiers if there's even an off chance of winning ,
They had accepted defeat already ,for them it was matter of when , that's why niazi agreed.

You are not understanding gravity of paki position , they couldn't leave their positions and move around freely because of mukti bahini , our own forces and our complete air superiority.

Try getting stuck in the same place for a week with stories of mukti bahini torturing and then completely surrounded by Indian army and mukti bahini and no outside help ,limited food and water and ammo.
My point is pakis stuck their didn't know about the latest diplomacy going on , they were in situation of complete defeat ,
THAT'S WHY they got bluffed because they had no way out ,other than international pressure but being cut off they didn't know what was latest developments in international arena.

So, saying that pakis were coned into surrender is wrong , they were defeated and broken and hopeless , they wanted to surrender ,
Mr jacob sensed their morale and sped up things.

My understanding of history is fairly decent but this is merely a difference of opinion and you are entitled to your pov. Your belief that the Pakistani soldiers didn’t want to fight is not backed by actual history where Pakistani soldiers fought very hard in many places even when outnumbered. The Pakistanis were shaken by the previous days bombing of the governors residence and with the way the war was going and were a dispirited lot but Niazi didn’t expect to surrender. You don’t have to take my word for it, you can read other historical accounts including Gen. Jacob’s. The Pakistanis believed that Gen. Jacob had many more troops around the city than he actually had. Gen. Manekshaw actually asked Gen Jacob to go to Dhaka because of the international pressure to end the conflict. The bluff and I mean this in the most respectful manner was in which Gen. Jacob intimidated the Pakistanis into surrendering when Gen. Niazi had about 30000 troops in Dhaka and could have put up a fight for many more days. This is Gen. Jacob’s own account where he spent the half hour he had given Gen Niazi pacing up and down worried, even by his own account he didn’t show it, in case Gen. Niazi refused the demand made.

Gen Jacob did make a point of how he would guarantee the safety of Pakistani soldiers and their families if they surrendered but might be helpless if the Mukti Bahini got to them first. Knowing what they could expect at the hands of MB was one of the main reasons for that surrender. Something that Gen Niazi kept saying...that Gen Jacob blackmailed him.


On December 16, General Jacob flew from Calcutta. Touching down on Dhaka, he went directly to the Headquarters of Pakistani Eastern Command and showed Niazi the written instrument of surrender which he had drafted all by himself and waited for the final approval that eventually did not come.

All the generals including Rao Farman Ali protested. They said it was a ceasefire arrangement they could sit for, not a surrender, let alone in a public ceremony and to the Joint Forces.

In his memoir "Surrender at Dacca" Gen Jacob has an elaborate description of the tough negotiation:"I was a little annoyed and pulled Niazi aside. 'I have been talking to you for three days,' I told him. 'I have offered you terms that you will be treated with respect and under Geneva Convention. We will protect all ethnic minorities and everyone. If you surrender, we can protect you. If you do not surrender, I wash my hands off anything that happens.'"

Then Gen Jacob conveyed the 30 minutes ultimatum to decide on a surrender or face the consequences and he then left the room.

Gen Jacob wrote:"Once outside, doubts assailed me. 'What have I done?' I thought. 'I have nothing in my hand. He has 26,400 troops in Dhaka and we only have 3,000, and that too thirty miles away.'"
For quite some time, Gen Jacob paced the veranda of the military headquarters in a city behind enemy lines. He was alone and unarmed.

He wrote:"The other officers present with him had in no uncertain terms voiced their extreme displeasure at my demand, but I remained unfazed. Logic was my sword, faith the shield. The fate of millions hinged on the reply of the enemy commander to my no-nonsense threat. Only I knew I had been bluffing. For me, this was a defining moment of my life. I used all my control to appear calm as I paced back and forth. I was completely alone. I wondered what would happen if he said no."

Thirty minutes later, as Gen Jacob re-entered the room, he wanted to know the decision. Gen Niazi was silent. Gen Jacob picked the surrender document lying on the table and said, "I take it as accepted."
He said in a resolute voice, "General, you will surrender on the Race Course in front of the people of Dacca."

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[NeXoft007]

OFF TOPIC

Who do you guys think funds these? I mean Myanmar is Pro-India and so is Bangladesh to a certain extent through there government. So China?

The answer to yours is Extortion and Illegal Drug Trade...

Money is illegally extorted by NSCN agents from atleast 100,000 Nagas & Burmese weekly/ monthly/ quarterly/ half-yearly or annually. If it's a paan dukaan or a small grocery store, then it's weekly or monthly and if it's a big business company, then it's annually. A friend of mine too gives annual extortion tax to these scumbags coz he have no choice.

Also, NSCN manages big opium fields in Burma-China border and possibly at remote Nagaland areas which are then supplied to countless drug-addicted people.

The income is huge, but it's necessary for them to give salary to all their cadres, manage daily expenses in their dozens of permanent & temporary camps and buying weapons from the illegal firearms market in South-East Asia and China.

 

[Indrajit]

Your itch to defend pakis and their bravery is legendary , give them benefit of doubt at every place, .

My itch to defend Pakistanis is legendary..???
Oh boy! Now I have heard everything.

 

[apoorv465]

Encounter resumed at Awantipora