India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

[Mikesingh]

Army's summer strategy in place at LoC with temperatures expected to rise in Kashmir

Move comes at a time when a new outfit, The Resistance Front, has emerged in Kashmir, which security agencies believe is yet another terror proxy group launched by Pakistan.

theprint.in

My 2 questions on the report:
1. Why so much importance to TRF. After all it a susbsidiary of LeT and we have been giving LeT tough times on LC and valley. What makes this group so important that we are not aiming on LeT, JeM and ISI but this group? This group is no different than them
2. Regarding False Flag, why can't we claim same for Pakistanis. APS was a FF ops and was conducted by Porkis themselves which was acknowledged by their soldiers as well. Why don't't we say that Porkis themselves are carrying attaks to earn sympathy and make money from west!?

Your first point is valid, It is incomprehensible why new groups are considered a greater threat than the existing ones. After all, they are from the same stock of morons. We even shudder at the thought of the Pakis sending the Taliban into Kashmir. Why? Are they superhuman/supermen? They are the same buffoons with a different name. They will be eliminated just like the others.

What's in a name? A jackass by any other name will remain a jackass!

Your second point: Frankly, we suck at counter propaganda and thus the info war. We need to learn a thing or two from the Pakis themselves who are past masters at hoodwinking the world!

 

[Mikesingh]

Now a days ,Zaid Hamid is saying Daily
That War is Coming Very soon

Is it really possible that India might do something in this Lockdown phase

This jackass has been saying this since 2010! Lol!

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

Now a days ,Zaid Hamid is saying Daily
That War is Coming Very soon

Is it really possible that India might do something in this Lockdown phase

Zaid Hamid is a Idiot, Please don’t take him seriously. He is Possibly one of the most idiotic Paki Jihadis out there.

 

[Mikesingh]

And would that not result in a reciprocal action from the other side?

Remember we dominate them 80% as we are on higher ground along the LoC. We thus have a huge advantage over them in most sectors. They thus cannot inflict 'unacceptable' damage on us but we can. Our fire assaults last fortnight laid them flat with ammo dumps blown up, an important bridge destroyed, as well as pl/coy HQs and terrorist hideouts demolished.

Our secondary positions are on reverse slopes where enemy arty fire is far less effective. The Pakis don't have this luxury.

 

[Bhadra]

And would that not result in a reciprocal action from the other side?



How is this an 'excessive cost'?

Without even going into the costs of the suggested course of action (as suggested by you), a mere look at the 'costs' at present will show that there is adequacy in controlling the level of violence, the mandate to the forces.

Example. In 2017, about 80 Security Personnel laid down their lives in J&K. Compare it to the 350 lives lost of Security Personnel from the three branches of the Armed Forces lost in road accidents for the same year. I shall not even get into suicides, ailments and other non-war casualties.

Costwise one Indian soldier is ten times costlier than a Pakistani terrorist. That means the Indian side must have a ratio of at least 1:10 to break even. However, things are not so simple. The costs imposed on Pakistani state in terms of managing threats emanating from Islamic fundamentalism, lack of socio economic development, cost of managing indoctrinated armed groups, internal turmoils, internal dissensions, proliferation of small arms, drug abuse, crime rates, degradation of education and skills etc can be very high.

Loss due to climate, terrain, accidents

Hmm I been thinking about this for quite a while
@Bhadra @Mikesingh who carries out the Shelling, artillery fire and retaliation during ceasefire breach?
It is a job of BSF not army right?

In gerneral what is a BSF soldier suppose to do at the borders?- Patrolling, Uncovering landmines, observation, finding terrorist entry route and sealing them?
And what is the dynamic of Indian Army and BSF? How do they collaborate with each other on the field.
I've seen some borders posts manned by Indian Army jawans in some critical areas, is this the case in all of Kashmir borders or some specific area.

BSF is deployed at a few places on the LC and elsewhere, generally in less threatened areas or in depth areas to make up for the deficiency of the Army. BSF is deployed in subunits and invariably under command of the military commanders. All their operational needs and support is taken care of by the Army. But due to accounting hassles ( and many other reasons) , their administration is looked after by their own organisation. Their HQs are as far away as possible which can make them risk free and comfortable. Since their command elements are not responsible for operational matters they are rarely seen in the deployment area except when some constable Yadava makes a video showing water in Dal and sends that video to the PM.

 

[Hellfire]

Remember we dominate them 80% as we are on higher ground along the LoC. We thus have a huge advantage over them in most sectors. They thus cannot inflict 'unacceptable' damage on us but we can.

1. Please read the post of mine quoted as a response to the member who had made a specific post - that of targeting of infrastructure. The moment you target their infrastructure, I give you an example. Please also recollect that Kishenganga Project is overlooked by Pakistani positions along the Durmat Ridge, which itself was the ridge of LC demarcation and is a technical violation. There are 5 Pakistani positions along this ridge which overlooks the route as also the dam itself. The post was in response to member's original post.

2. When you say the above - i.e. domination of heights along LC, I give you a counter - relative peaceful areas - Eastern Gurez (aka Tilel Valley), Drass, Kargil, Batalik thence to Siachen. No Ceasefire Violations in these places. And we dominate them in every sector named starting from Mid zone of Gurez aka Dawar.

Our fire assaults last fortnight laid them flat with ammo dumps blown up, an important bridge destroyed, as well as pl/coy HQs and terrorist hideouts demolished.

Most of the Bn/Coy/Pl HQs are built with shelters/bunkers with 12 inches overhead protection at a minimum using sand, logs, and reinforced steel beams. You and I both know it. As for the 'terrorist hideouts', temporary shelters made of Galvanized Iron Sheets are common. Again, transitory.

Our secondary positions are on reverse slopes where enemy arty fire is far less effective. The Pakis don't have this luxury.

I hope you seriously do not mean to say that Pakistani Army does not have secondaries and does not have reverse slope defences as also alternative defences for same locality?

I will not even go into the comparative analysis of the construction quality of their bunkers on the posts opposed to ours.

 

[Hellfire]

Costwise one Indian soldier is ten times costlier than a Pakistani terrorist. That means the Indian side must have a ratio of at least 1:10 to break even. However, things are not so simple.

Strange that such a logic is coming from you. This is one of the most absurd cost versus benefit analysis criteria for any conflict/insurgency.

The costs imposed on Pakistani state in terms of managing threats emanating from Islamic fundamentalism, lack of socio economic development, cost of managing indoctrinated armed groups, internal turmoils, internal dissensions, proliferation of small arms, drug abuse, crime rates, degradation of education and skills etc can be very high.

Loss due to climate, terrain, accidents

Again. Read what I have posted as a response to the originally quoted member. He speaks of imposing greater costs. What are greater costs?

We are talking about conflict management here, right? So, how do you impose greater costs on an enemy state without raising your own costs when the political intent of the state is to remain in the stage of conflict management and not move into a stage of conflict resolution?

BSF is deployed at a few places on the LC and elsewhere, generally in less threatened areas or in depth areas to make up for the deficiency of the Army. BSF is deployed in subunits and invariably under command of the military commanders. All their operational needs and support is taken care of by the Army. But due to accounting hassles ( and many other reasons) , their administration is looked after by their own organisation. Their HQs are as far away as possible which can make them risk free and comfortable. Since their command elements are not responsible for operational matters they are rarely seen in the deployment area except when some constable Yadava makes a video showing water in Dal and sends that video to the PM.

To be very clear, only in case of conduct of any operation/use of force/weapons by the subunit are they under operational control of the local military commander. Otherwise, for all their operational & administrative logistics, they are under command of their respective Battalion Headquarters. Their guard composition, schedule, leaves, administrative movements, ambush timings & procedures - are all under the control of their own command channel.

 

[Hellfire]

Zaid Hamid is a Idiot, Please don’t take him seriously. He is Possibly one of the most idiotic Paki Jihadis out there.

That statement, as highlighted, is one of the most basic mistakes you can make. We must take him very seriously, as he, with his incessant non-sense, has a 'captive audience' that is made from the very same cohort that sends its men and boys to fight 'jihad' in Kashmir.

His constant delusions and fanning of paranoia has impact on the larger Pakistani Society which also affects the religiously fundamentalistic cohorts who rule the roost over their civil government and to a large extent, over their forces too.

 

[fire starter]

another pig killed.

 

[Mikesingh]

1. Please read the post of mine quoted as a response to the member who had made a specific post - that of targeting of infrastructure. The moment you target their infrastructure, I give you an example. Please also recollect that Kishenganga Project is overlooked by Pakistani positions along the Durmat Ridge, which itself was the ridge of LC demarcation and is a technical violation. There are 5 Pakistani positions along this ridge which overlooks the route as also the dam itself. The post was in response to member's original post.

2. When you say the above - i.e. domination of heights along LC, I give you a counter - relative peaceful areas - Eastern Gurez (aka Tilel Valley), Drass, Kargil, Batalik thence to Siachen. No Ceasefire Violations in these places. And we dominate them in every sector named starting from Mid zone of Gurez aka Dawar.

Please do remember that cross border/LC firing takes place in areas where terrorist camps/launch pads are operating and from where they are being infiltrated. It's not that just because we dominate them in many other areas that we have to open fire as a matter of course. That is seldom the case. Like in the Kalsian/Lam sector we are in eyeball to eyeball contact but there has been seldom any mortar/arty firing here due to the above reason. Heck, even small arms fire is rare!

Most of the Bn/Coy/Pl HQs are built with shelters/bunkers with 12 inches overhead protection at a minimum using sand, logs, and reinforced steel beams. You and I both know it. As for the 'terrorist hideouts', temporary shelters made of Galvanized Iron Sheets are common. Again, transitory.

Yes, you are correct, but not all posts are concretised. As for the launch pads, terrorists are usually kept in mud houses as well as temp shelters. This is where they get pounded by mortar/arty fire as and when info is got from UAVs (which we used recently for observation and fire control) as well as CARTOSAT imagery.

Like this one from the recent fire assault.......

I hope you seriously do not mean to say that Pakistani Army does not have secondaries and does not have reverse slope defences as also alternative defences for same locality?

Did I say that? nope! They do have reverse slope positions but these are few and far between due to the nature of the terrain in relation to the LC which they per force have to cover by fire and observation. See the above image. No reverse slope positions here and there are many such areas.

 

[Holy Triad]

Top JuD man, who was operating sex racket in the name of blood bank in PoK, arrested



Pakistan-based terror group Jamaat-ud-Dawa’s (JuD) top man, Syed Sameer Bukhari, has been taken into custody in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) for operating a prostitution racket.

He was arrested in PoK’s Bagh city a day after a video went viral showing him in a compromising position with women visiting his office. As per news agency ANI, Syed Sameer Bukhari runs Al-Muhafiz Foundation, which is a subsidiary of JuD. Mumbai terror attacks mastermind Hafiz Saeed is the leader of the banned JuD. The JuD man was running a sex racket in the name of a blood bank.
The news agency mentioned sources as saying that Bukhari is a key aide of Hafiz Saeed. He was also engaged in organising anti-India protests in the region.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website https://idrw.org/top-jud-man-who-was-operating-sex-racket-in-the-name-of-blood-bank-in-pok-arrested/ .


looks like RAW boys played well,

 

[fire starter]

 

[Holy Triad]

Big Breaking: Indian Army targets terror launchpads & Pak Army positions in Neelum district, PoK along LoC. Heavy exchange of firing ongoing.

Wait for few crows & trees to be uprooted again.

 

[Hellfire]

Please do remember that cross border/LC firing takes place in areas where terrorist camps/launch pads are operating and from where they are being infiltrated. It's not that just because we dominate them in many other areas that we have to open fire as a matter of course. That is seldom the case. Like in the Kalsian/Lam sector we are in eyeball to eyeball contact but there has been seldom any mortar/arty firing here due to the above reason. Heck, even small arms fire is rare!

Precisely. Hence, the contention of domination in 80% is incorrect point to be introduced as situation is quite mixed south of Pir Panjal and not always necessarily in our favor. Karen is another interesting sub-sector. But will desist on venturing on this line.

Yes, you are correct, but not all posts are concretised.

I think you have understood what I want to say and certain things need not be placed here. Situation is not as smooth as we would want to project either.

As for the launch pads, terrorists are usually kept in mud houses as well as temp shelters. This is where they get pounded by mortar/arty fire as and when info is got from UAVs (which we used recently for observation and fire control) as well as CARTOSAT imagery.

Like this one from the recent fire assault.......

View attachment 46131

This was a result of HUMINT & SIGINT. SATA UAVs were used for targeting, have been used right since May 19 with Pakistan being able to do naught. Nothing to do with CARTOSAT or any such gizmo by a long shot.

Did I say that?

Whatever you make of this undermentioned statement of yours then.

Our secondary positions are on reverse slopes where enemy arty fire is far less effective. The Pakis don't have this luxury.

nope! They do have reverse slope positions but these are few and far between due to the nature of the terrain in relation to the LC which they per force have to cover by fire and observation. See the above image. No reverse slope positions here and there are many such areas.

Conversely, can post similar situation on our side. Hence, the contention was quoted. There is no absolute advantage in terms of either citing of secondary defences or of reverse slopes as your statement had tried to portray earlier ....

 

[Hellfire]

Top JuD man, who was operating sex racket in the name of blood bank in PoK, arrested



Pakistan-based terror group Jamaat-ud-Dawa’s (JuD) top man, Syed Sameer Bukhari, has been taken into custody in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) for operating a prostitution racket.

He was arrested in PoK’s Bagh city a day after a video went viral showing him in a compromising position with women visiting his office. As per news agency ANI, Syed Sameer Bukhari runs Al-Muhafiz Foundation, which is a subsidiary of JuD. Mumbai terror attacks mastermind Hafiz Saeed is the leader of the banned JuD. The JuD man was running a sex racket in the name of a blood bank.
The news agency mentioned sources as saying that Bukhari is a key aide of Hafiz Saeed. He was also engaged in organising anti-India protests in the region.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website https://idrw.org/top-jud-man-who-was-operating-sex-racket-in-the-name-of-blood-bank-in-pok-arrested/ .


looks like RAW boys played well,

Nothing to do with RAW. Most likely the work of local politics.

If it was so effective, in spite of presence in Valley itself, why does it allow the touts of Hurriyat, in connivance with the Govt officials, to run porn industry in Kashmir Valley proper? Wouldn't that involvement be an absolute gold mine to leverage to meet our objectives? But did it, post-Burhan incident?

 

[fire starter]

terrorist arrested.

 

[Mikesingh]

Nothing to do with CARTOSAT or any such gizmo by a long shot.

Cartosat series of satellites are being used for strategic purposes too. Obviously their images cannot be used for real time targeting but are made available at Corps/Command level if and when required to study likely targets. India currently has six satellites which can be used for military purposes. There are four Cartosat-2 series satellites (2C, 2D, 2E, 2F) and the Gsat-29 communications sat besides Risat-2, gizmos as you call them! Remember, most of these are dual purpose sats.

These 'gizmos' were used during planning for the surgical strike and Op Bandar.

 

[fire starter]

Cartosat series of satellites are being used for strategic purposes too. Obviously their images cannot be used for real time targeting but are made available at Corps/Command level if and when required to study likely targets. India currently has six satellites which can be used for military purposes. There are four Cartosat-2 series satellites (2C, 2D, 2E, 2F) and the Gsat-29 communications sat besides Risat-2, gizmos as you call them! Remember, most of these are dual purpose sats.

cartosat and risat satellites can be used for precision strikes they will be very useful against carrier groups.

 

[Hellfire]

Cartosat series of satellites are being used for strategic purposes too. Obviously their images cannot be used for real time targeting but are made available at Corps/Command level if and when required to study likely targets.

Can you tell me the average time taken for these satellite photographs to made available to the user after travelling 'down the command channel'? You shall realize why I posted what I did.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Pakistan Removes Thousands of Names From Terrorist Watch List

Pakistan has removed thousands of names from a list intended to help financial institutions avoid doing business with suspected terrorists.

www.wsj.com

Pakistan Removes Thousands of Names From Terrorist Watch List
The list has been cut in half in the past 18 months without public explanation

FATF BLACKLISTING NEXT MEETING???