India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

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Tactical Doge

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ISR today morning

I never understood the logic behind this thing
If the "secretive" aircraft is running a ELINT/SIGINT sortie, the private websites like these are also there giving out flight data
Doesn't this defeat the purpose of an ISR sortie
 

Tactical Doge

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Knowitall

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In what context? Did you watch what Sawant asked him before BiRa said those words?
Yes I did.

He was asked to respond to the grievances in the IAF about IA considering them as a air artillery rather than their primary role of deep strikes and air dominance.

He then went on to talk about the kargil committee and the issues we faced during the kargil war which was absolutely true.

Kargil committee laid down the foundation for our cyber agency and special operations command which are today known as DCA and AFSOD.

He then went on to say that the airforce is a support branch and air defence and army support comes under their charter.

What he did was to reinforce the grievances in IAF by saying that air defence and army support are the two things that comes under the charter of air force.

In the battlefield of 21st century air forces around the world are not restricted to air defence rather are used as strike elements to be used even before the army offense can begun.

IAF sees itself as the opening rounds of a salvo being fired in the first few days of war where they systematically degrade the enemy defences and gain air dominance in the region too then provide the army with sufficient breakthrough to break into enemy lines.
 

Raaakisazih

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I never understood the logic behind this thing
If the "secretive" aircraft is running a ELINT/SIGINT sortie, the private websites like these are also there giving out flight data
Doesn't this defeat the purpose of an ISR sortie
Exactly man it does defeats its purpose
 

Knowitall

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I never understood the logic behind this thing
If the "secretive" aircraft is running a ELINT/SIGINT sortie, the private websites like these are also there giving out flight data
Doesn't this defeat the purpose of an ISR sortie
I think it has something to do with air traffic.

When on a peacetime mission most aircrafts keep their transponders on to coordinate with the ATC to prevent any mishaps.

Generally these aircrafts never cross the border and the opposing side cannot shift their forces in a very short span of time just because a ELINT aircraft is on the air.

So it kinda works and therefore is the norm in most countries.
 

t 90s

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It's not we. There are forces who are hell bent on throwing dirt on BiRa. I am seeing it since he became CDS. He is doing great work. But some vested interests trying to paint him as something else.

The video is enough proof. All they need is little ammo, they will froth at mouth and say all nasty words to him. Lol.

If you are real nationalist, please check his every interview and so called 'controversies'. Everything is manufactured. Their target is not just him.They want to cripple our armed forces.

Modi had to do all kinda gymnastics to buy just 36 Rafale. I used to think he was so weak couldn't bulldoze it. And then you realise how fu*ked the whole system is They won't even let him buy them.
They hate him cause he is a Rajput plain & simple. They hated VK singh for same reason. Shiv aroor india today writer used to write lot of s**t against vk singh back in 2012-15 throwing tantrum & caste jibs.
 

DivineLight

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Yes I did.

He was asked to respond to the grievances in the IAF about IA considering them as a air artillery rather than their primary role of deep strikes and air dominance.

He then went on to talk about the kargil committee and the issues we faced during the kargil war which was absolutely true.

Kargil committee laid down the foundation for our cyber agency and special operations command which are today known as DCA and AFSOD.

He then went on to say that the airforce is a support branch and air defence and army support comes under their charter.

What he did was to reinforce the grievances in IAF by saying that air defence and army support are the two things that comes under the charter of air force.

In the battlefield of 21st century air forces around the world are not restricted to air defence rather are used as strike elements to be used even before the army offense can begun.

IAF sees itself as the opening rounds of a salvo being fired in the first few days of war where they systematically degrade the enemy defences and gain air dominance in the region too then provide the army with sufficient breakthrough to break into enemy lines.
The gist of interview is,

BiRa want to create command structure and tri-services cooperation. Sawant asking if it's actually happening on the groun. There are reports that IAF having serious reservations and insisting 'one nation - one theatre'.

BiRa then said - As I said as far as the Indian Air Force is concerned, yes, the entire air space of the nation will be looked after by one air defence command. We are creating one air defence command which will look after the entire nation's airspace. But what we are looking at is, because you have a western theatre and a northern theatre, one dealing with our northern adversary and one dealing with our western adversary and we are creating land based theatres for them. The reason is, air force is not just responsible for air defence. It has got other charters. It has got a charter of providing close air support to the land forces when they undertake operatons and for offensive airsupport in case you go into adversary's territory.

I actually typed what he said in response to the question.

We goes to next question by Sawant - Some of the reservations by IAF is that army looks at them perhaps as air artillery not the lead offensive force in future combat. Also they are accusing CDS of forcing impractical deadlines down their throats.

BiRa then responds - The issue of integration and jointness is not new. It started with Kargil review committee. How our army and airforce couldn't operate jointly. At that time, we realised the need for integration. That's why the CDS came in. Wars are done by theatre commands. Examples of 1971 war. How airforce assets moved from eastern theatre to western theatre after eastern pakis were dealt with. This kinda dynamic change does happen. Air force is required to provide support to the ground forces. Do not forget airforce continues to remain as supporting arm to the armed forces. Just as the artellery support. They will be supporting arm but they have a charter they have a air defence charter and supporting ground forces in times of operations. This is the basic charter they have to undestand.

/transcript

CDS creating Integrated theatre commands so that we have much better system in place. Since these two theatres are land based, the airforce have to provide support role. He didn't rule out airforce lead theatre command. He is only talking about Western and Northern theatres.
 
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Knowitall

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The gist of interview is,

BiRa want to create command structure and tri-services cooperation. Sawant asking if it's actually happening on the groun. There are reports that IAF having serious reservations and insisting 'one nation - one theatre'.

BiRa then said - As I said as far as the Indian Air Force is concerned, yes, the entire air space of the nation will be looked after by one air defence command. We are creating one air defence command which will look after the entire nation's airspace. But what we are looking at is, because you have a western theatre and a northern theatre, one dealing with our northern adversary and one dealing with our western adversary and we are creating land based theatres for them. The reason is, air force is not just responsible for air defence. It has got other charters. It has got a charter of providing close air support to the land forces when they undertake operatons and for offensive airsupport in case you go into adversary's territory.

I actually typed what he said in response to the previous question.

We goes to next question by Sawant - Some of the reservations by IAF is that army looks at them perhaps as air artillery not the lead offensive force in future combat. Also they are accusing CDS of forcing impractical deadlines down their throats.

BiRa then responds - The issue of integration and jointness is not new. It started with Kargil review committee. How our army and airforce couldn't operate jointly. At that time, we realised the need for integration. That's why the CDS came in. Wars are done by theatre commands. Examples of 1971 war. How airforce assets moved from eastern theatre to western theatre after eastern pakis were dealt with. This kinda dynamic change does happen. Air force is required to provide support to the ground forces. Do not forget airforce continues to remain as supporting arm to the armed forces. Just as the artellery support. They will be supporting arm but they have a charter they have a air defence charter and supporting ground forces in times of operations. This is the basic charter they have to undestand.

/transcript

Now give your interpretation of it.
Did you even read my answer?

I typed the same thing that you did an then explained why he should not have said that thing.

Your entire answer literally reinforces the point I made and the point the IAF keeps talking about.

The last few lines from your own answer.

They will be supporting arm but they have a charter they have a air defence charter and supporting ground forces in times of operations. This is the basic charter they have to undestand.

This is exactly what the IAF is saying that you cannot confine us to to these roles as our primary roles are air Dominance and deep strike not air defence and army support.
 

DivineLight

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Did you even read my answer?

I typed the same thing that you did an then explained why he should not have said that thing.

Your entire answer literally reinforces the point I made and the point the IAF keeps talking about.

The last few lines from your own answer.

They will be supporting arm but they have a charter they have a air defence charter and supporting ground forces in times of operations. This is the basic charter they have to undestand.

This is exactly what the IAF is saying that you cannot confine us to to these roles as our primary roles are air Dominance and deep strike not air defence and army support.
Airforce can have different roles. BiRa talking about land based theatre commands. Do you even know how theatre commands work?

He talked about airforce charter. How they have ground support role also. Air force is not scrapped and fit into army if that is what you are worried about. Read about what he said about the charters and theatre commands.

Lol. He is not making airforce as extra wing of IA. He is deploying airforce as extra support arm in a land based theatre.
 

ezsasa

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Did you even read my answer?

I typed the same thing that you did an then explained why he should not have said that thing.

Your entire answer literally reinforces the point I made and the point the IAF keeps talking about.

The last few lines from your own answer.

They will be supporting arm but they have a charter they have a air defence charter and supporting ground forces in times of operations. This is the basic charter they have to undestand.

This is exactly what the IAF is saying that you cannot confine us to to these roles as our primary roles are air Dominance and deep strike not air defence and army support.
countries prep for full scale wars not surgical strikes alone.

even in the case of air dominance or deep strike, they don’t happen on their own. it will not be the case IAF is given an order to do a deep strike or enforce a no fly zone without IA having their own battle orders within the same theatre

In a theatre command scenario, IAF is a supporting role. isn’t it?

Outside of theatre level warfare during peace times, IAF have their own domain on CAPS & Air logistics anyways.
 

Knowitall

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Airforce can have different roles. BiRa talking about land based theatre commands. Do you even know how theatre commands work?

He talked about airforce charter. How they have ground support role also. Air force is not scrapped and fit into army if that is what you are worried about. Read about what he said about the charters and theatre commands.

Lol. He is not making airforce as extra wing of IA. He is deploying airforce as extra support arm in a land based theatre.
Please quote the para where I said that I was worried about airforce being scrapped or I was worried about the air force being an extra support arm.

If you have to lie and put words into my mouth then there is no point in having an argument in the first place.

The statement made by air cheif

Asked about CDS Rawat comment, ACM Bhadauria said, “It is not a supporting role alone. Air power has a huge role to play in any of the integrated battle areas. It is not an issue of support alone. And there is a whole lot of things that go into any air plan that is made…”

Which is literally what I said my whole argument has been that he could have framed his word better as IAF has more roles to play.
 
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