India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

[Hellfire]

reacted back by doing what? sending there planes deep inside our airspace to target our radars.

Selective targeting of own AD sites in J&K. Could have been done, but that would have given India an excuse to expand the confrontation.

 

[Hellfire]

In sniper ops where you have to stay still..how will you eat and drink with that mask on?and you cannot change position for hours.

In Indian Context:

1. Drink : via a piping attached to the side of the respirator.
2. Eat: after exiting the 'contaminated' zone, you undertake field decontamination if you have decontamination units nearby, but practically, you use PDK (personal decontamination kit) made up of Feuller's Earth (our Multani Mitti) to decontaminate your mask, eat and then again put on your respirator,

 

[Holy Triad]

Friends,I created a OSINT thread

OSINT compilation thread

This thread is for monitoring fluidic situations related to our national security and strategic interests. Anyone interested in posting content based on OSINT/RUMINT sources can post here. Any indepth analysis relative to that particular event can be made in respective threads as this thread is...

defenceforumindia.com

All are welcome to contribute on this topic,

Regards,

 

[LurkerBaba]

Let's get back on topic

 

[Bhadra]

In Indian Context:

1. Drink : via a piping attached to the side of the respirator.
2. Eat: after exiting the 'contaminated' zone, you undertake field decontamination if you have decontamination units nearby, but practically, you use PDK (personal decontamination kit) made up of Feuller's Earth (our Multani Mitti) to decontaminate your mask, eat and then again put on your respirator,

One can jump into a canal or a water body with a mask on so that you are decontaminated forever... why take a shower in field decontaminator...

 

[ManhattanProject]

Let's get back on topic

yeah, but should have left it as an example.

 

[LurkerBaba]

OT

yeah, but should have left it as an example.

OSINT Community and their India conundrum

Wait what all i am saying is you are posting in the wrong thread and it give people the wrong ideas. What is juvenile about this i dont understand. Thanks for giving me the heads up.

defenceforumindia.com

 

[Hellfire]

One can jump into a canal or a water body with a mask on so that you are decontaminated forever... why take a shower in field decontaminator...

Merely laid out the practical process that is followed for the two activities.

PS: Don't go writing such things, people may actually believe that is the process.

On a side note: Don't go missing the LIDO.

 

[LurkerBaba]

FYI discussion also with reference to OSINT can continue on this thread. x-post from OSINT compilation thread made by @Assassin 2.0
--

Sad news. Terrorists fired upon J&K Police at Frisal Chowk in Kulgam of South Kashmir. J&K Police Head Constable Mohammad Amin Bagad of Pulwama killed in action. Search Ops launched in the area by security forces.

 

[Alfalfa]

Is baba barfing again... bunch of these "OSINT" handles peddling the same crap again and again, Wolfpack, Baba, FrontalFire bla bla... apart from these govt. mouthpieces any other sources to gauge whats actually happening?

 

[Hellfire]

Is baba barfing again... bunch of these "OSINT" handles peddling the same crap again and again, Wolfpack, Baba, FrontalFire bla bla... apart from these govt. mouthpieces any other sources to gauge whats actually happening?

Let me be the boring guy here.

1. LC is active, just like it was in 1970-2003 period. The only difference is that any firing is now reported as major confrontation thanks to mass media penetration and mobile phone generation.

2. Apart from the usual fire assaults on offending enemy posts/forward localities, there is not much being done in terms of targeting of Pakistani regular troops - army or paramilitary. Targets are specific to terrorists and their support infrastructure.

3. Precise and selective targeting of known terror concentration areas/points with real time surveillance and target acquisition being done by SATA through UAVs and in some cases, WLR for Counter Battery fire for offending Pakistan Artillery. It's not as frequent as being reported by OSINT - virtually every day.

4. No 'in-depth' targeting of Pakistani C2 infrastructure is being done for the apparent reason, they can also return the favor equally.

5. Few posts/forward localities were physically attacked, briefly occupied and then destroyed. These were merely to deny local tactical advantage to the enemy in supporting infiltration by dominating own MOST/Ambushes. No permanent occupancy of any territory across LC has taken place.

6. High PAF sorties are being seen in backdrop of routine changeover of own units as snow melts in forward LC zones and turnover is getting over of the respective units in backdrop of Handwara incident wherein we lost heavily. As these forward units are first relieved by troops of the relieving units moving in from peace stations, there is local increase in number of troops in the transition phase. Pakistan is cautious expecting a publicized IAF strike targeting camps in KPK zone again. The fact that there are more troops now as units changeover, adds a factor for them to cater to in their contingency planning. Theoretically, we can do anything we want.

7. No HVT has been targeted in Pakistan. Be it anyone. Reason is simple. It does not serve our purpose. The mere presence of these HVTs within Pakistani State buttress our moves to have them perpetually under financial crunch in terms of access to aid/monetary instruments to restructure their external debt and finance their activities. Nothing kills a nation as economic strangulation.

8. From point 7, it would do good to understand that Maj Gaurav Arya and others, when they claim support to BLA or whatever, are merely grandstanding. It is business at the end of the day. Grabs the eyeballs, maintains relevance and increases your 'value' in market. Truth is, only an idiot will support BLA, which is proscribed by US, when we are using US to have Pakistan remain perpetually in FATF Grey List if not actually Black List, based on their support of groups which are proscribed by US too. It does not make sense to shoot yourself in the foot. And to understand the dynamics there, just read about the Sunni oriented Baluch front operating in Sistan province of Iran. Iran has all the reasons to support BLA in retaliation to meet its own objectives in driving a wedge between the Baluchs as also remain at the forefront of 'avenging' Shias. Why should India not use the opportunity by sharing Intelligence inputs and providing data to Iran in this case and instead, be stupid enough to directly involve itself when things work perfectly fine without us 'showing' our hand?

 

[Freezer Dam]

Let me be the boring guy here.

1. LC is active, just like it was in 1970-2003 period. The only difference is that any firing is now reported as major confrontation thanks to mass media penetration and mobile phone generation.

2. Apart from the usual fire assaults on offending enemy posts/forward localities, there is not much being done in terms of targeting of Pakistani regular troops - army or paramilitary. Targets are specific to terrorists and their support infrastructure.

3. Precise and selective targeting of known terror concentration areas/points with real time surveillance and target acquisition being done by SATA through UAVs and in some cases, WLR for Counter Battery fire for offending Pakistan Artillery. It's not as frequent as being reported by OSINT - virtually every day.

4. No 'in-depth' targeting of Pakistani C2 infrastructure is being done for the apparent reason, they can also return the favor equally.

5. Few posts/forward localities were physically attacked, briefly occupied and then destroyed. These were merely to deny local tactical advantage to the enemy in supporting infiltration by dominating own MOST/Ambushes. No permanent occupancy of any territory across LC has taken place.

6. High PAF sorties are being seen in backdrop of routine changeover of own units as snow melts in forward LC zones and turnover is getting over of the respective units in backdrop of Handwara incident wherein we lost heavily. As these forward units are first relieved by troops of the relieving units moving in from peace stations, there is local increase in number of troops in the transition phase. Pakistan is cautious expecting a publicized IAF strike targeting camps in KPK zone again. The fact that there are more troops now as units changeover, adds a factor for them to cater to in their contingency planning. Theoretically, we can do anything we want.

7. No HVT has been targeted in Pakistan. Be it anyone. Reason is simple. It does not serve our purpose. The mere presence of these HVTs within Pakistani State buttress our moves to have them perpetually under financial crunch in terms of access to aid/monetary instruments to restructure their external debt and finance their activities. Nothing kills a nation as economic strangulation.

8. From point 7, it would do good to understand that Maj Gaurav Arya and others, when they claim support to BLA or whatever, are merely grandstanding. It is business at the end of the day. Grabs the eyeballs, maintains relevance and increases your 'value' in market. Truth is, only an idiot will support BLA, which is proscribed by US, when we are using US to have Pakistan remain perpetually in FATF Grey List if not actually Black List, based on their support of groups which are proscribed by US too. It does not make sense to shoot yourself in the foot. And to understand the dynamics there, just read about the Sunni oriented Baluch front operating in Sistan province of Iran. Iran has all the reasons to support BLA in retaliation to meet its own objectives in driving a wedge between the Baluchs as also remain at the forefront of 'avenging' Shias. Why should India not use the opportunity by sharing Intelligence inputs and providing data to Iran in this case and instead, be stupid enough to directly involve itself when things work perfectly fine without us 'showing' our hand?

Point no 07....In this case hvt means in local level those who operating or coordinating with the terrorists infiltration may be targeted....Agree with All others points..

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Let me be the boring guy here.

1. LC is active, just like it was in 1970-2003 period. The only difference is that any firing is now reported as major confrontation thanks to mass media penetration and mobile phone generation.

2. Apart from the usual fire assaults on offending enemy posts/forward localities, there is not much being done in terms of targeting of Pakistani regular troops - army or paramilitary. Targets are specific to terrorists and their support infrastructure.

3. Precise and selective targeting of known terror concentration areas/points with real time surveillance and target acquisition being done by SATA through UAVs and in some cases, WLR for Counter Battery fire for offending Pakistan Artillery. It's not as frequent as being reported by OSINT - virtually every day.

4. No 'in-depth' targeting of Pakistani C2 infrastructure is being done for the apparent reason, they can also return the favor equally.

5. Few posts/forward localities were physically attacked, briefly occupied and then destroyed. These were merely to deny local tactical advantage to the enemy in supporting infiltration by dominating own MOST/Ambushes. No permanent occupancy of any territory across LC has taken place.

6. High PAF sorties are being seen in backdrop of routine changeover of own units as snow melts in forward LC zones and turnover is getting over of the respective units in backdrop of Handwara incident wherein we lost heavily. As these forward units are first relieved by troops of the relieving units moving in from peace stations, there is local increase in number of troops in the transition phase. Pakistan is cautious expecting a publicized IAF strike targeting camps in KPK zone again. The fact that there are more troops now as units changeover, adds a factor for them to cater to in their contingency planning. Theoretically, we can do anything we want.

7. No HVT has been targeted in Pakistan. Be it anyone. Reason is simple. It does not serve our purpose. The mere presence of these HVTs within Pakistani State buttress our moves to have them perpetually under financial crunch in terms of access to aid/monetary instruments to restructure their external debt and finance their activities. Nothing kills a nation as economic strangulation.

8. From point 7, it would do good to understand that Maj Gaurav Arya and others, when they claim support to BLA or whatever, are merely grandstanding. It is business at the end of the day. Grabs the eyeballs, maintains relevance and increases your 'value' in market. Truth is, only an idiot will support BLA, which is proscribed by US, when we are using US to have Pakistan remain perpetually in FATF Grey List if not actually Black List, based on their support of groups which are proscribed by US too. It does not make sense to shoot yourself in the foot. And to understand the dynamics there, just read about the Sunni oriented Baluch front operating in Sistan province of Iran. Iran has all the reasons to support BLA in retaliation to meet its own objectives in driving a wedge between the Baluchs as also remain at the forefront of 'avenging' Shias. Why should India not use the opportunity by sharing Intelligence inputs and providing data to Iran in this case and instead, be stupid enough to directly involve itself when things work perfectly fine without us 'showing' our hand?

There was supposed to be an "official confirmation" i guess.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

FYI discussion also with reference to OSINT can continue on this thread. x-post from OSINT compilation thread made by @Assassin 2.0
--

Sad news. Terrorists fired upon J&K Police at Frisal Chowk in Kulgam of South Kashmir. J&K Police Head Constable Mohammad Amin Bagad of Pulwama killed in action. Search Ops launched in the area by security forces.

The Indian Army in the last tweet had protested about such handles.

High time we get a high court order passed.

Such news should only and only be coming from government sources.

Be it 26/11 or the recent matyrdom of 5 officers and soldiers..such accounts have only and only done a disservice to our national interests or made a fool out of themselves.

 

[Hellfire]

Point no 07....In this case hvt means in local level those who operating or coordinating with the terrorists infiltration may be targeted....Agree with All others points..

While you may call them as such, the term is incorrect for that subset if you want to classify them on a grading of value.

The typical launch has the following main players:

1. The Base Commander (of main concentration areas for terrorists & their cohorts)
2. The Tanzeem Commander
3. The Launch Commander
4. The Liaison (usually an ISI gofer) who coordinates with the local Pakistani military/paramilitary forces

And the whole launch 'sequence' has redundancies built into it. You eliminate one, it may merely result in deferment of the launch, not disrupt the launch.

So, no, they are not exactly HVTs for our perspective.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Let me be the boring guy here.

1. LC is active, just like it was in 1970-2003 period. The only difference is that any firing is now reported as major confrontation thanks to mass media penetration and mobile phone generation.

2. Apart from the usual fire assaults on offending enemy posts/forward localities, there is not much being done in terms of targeting of Pakistani regular troops - army or paramilitary. Targets are specific to terrorists and their support infrastructure.

3. Precise and selective targeting of known terror concentration areas/points with real time surveillance and target acquisition being done by SATA through UAVs and in some cases, WLR for Counter Battery fire for offending Pakistan Artillery. It's not as frequent as being reported by OSINT - virtually every day.

4. No 'in-depth' targeting of Pakistani C2 infrastructure is being done for the apparent reason, they can also return the favor equally.

5. Few posts/forward localities were physically attacked, briefly occupied and then destroyed. These were merely to deny local tactical advantage to the enemy in supporting infiltration by dominating own MOST/Ambushes. No permanent occupancy of any territory across LC has taken place.

6. High PAF sorties are being seen in backdrop of routine changeover of own units as snow melts in forward LC zones and turnover is getting over of the respective units in backdrop of Handwara incident wherein we lost heavily. As these forward units are first relieved by troops of the relieving units moving in from peace stations, there is local increase in number of troops in the transition phase. Pakistan is cautious expecting a publicized IAF strike targeting camps in KPK zone again. The fact that there are more troops now as units changeover, adds a factor for them to cater to in their contingency planning. Theoretically, we can do anything we want.

7. No HVT has been targeted in Pakistan. Be it anyone. Reason is simple. It does not serve our purpose. The mere presence of these HVTs within Pakistani State buttress our moves to have them perpetually under financial crunch in terms of access to aid/monetary instruments to restructure their external debt and finance their activities. Nothing kills a nation as economic strangulation.

8. From point 7, it would do good to understand that Maj Gaurav Arya and others, when they claim support to BLA or whatever, are merely grandstanding. It is business at the end of the day. Grabs the eyeballs, maintains relevance and increases your 'value' in market. Truth is, only an idiot will support BLA, which is proscribed by US, when we are using US to have Pakistan remain perpetually in FATF Grey List if not actually Black List, based on their support of groups which are proscribed by US too. It does not make sense to shoot yourself in the foot. And to understand the dynamics there, just read about the Sunni oriented Baluch front operating in Sistan province of Iran. Iran has all the reasons to support BLA in retaliation to meet its own objectives in driving a wedge between the Baluchs as also remain at the forefront of 'avenging' Shias. Why should India not use the opportunity by sharing Intelligence inputs and providing data to Iran in this case and instead, be stupid enough to directly involve itself when things work perfectly fine without us 'showing' our hand?

finally something sensible.

 

[ManhattanProject]

The Indian Army in the last tweet had protested about such handles.

High time we get a high court order passed.

Such news should only and only be coming from government sources.

Be it 26/11 or the recent matyrdom of 5 officers and soldiers..such accounts have only and only done a disservice to our national interests or made a fool out of themselves.

handles like these actually reported that all our soldiers were okay and out of danger, then i heard about their death next day from the army.

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

What s with the green name. Why is it highlighted...

He looks like a Highly-Wanted Target for Elimination.

 

[Freezer Dam]

While you may call them as such, the term is incorrect for that subset if you want to classify them on a grading of value.

The typical launch has the following main players:

1. The Base Commander (of main concentration areas for terrorists & their cohorts)
2. The Tanzeem Commander
3. The Launch Commander
4. The Liaison (usually an ISI gofer) who coordinates with the local Pakistani military/paramilitary forces

And the whole launch 'sequence' has redundancies built into it. You eliminate one, it may merely result in deferment of the launch, not disrupt the launch.

So, no, they are not exactly HVTs for our perspective.

In this time what what you are saying as HVTs, may be GOI call them as Decoy now. So,GOI is not stupid to eliminate such threat when it is purely beneficial for us...Kashmir is not a battleground now,it is like a playground for both the forces...some times they won or sometimes we....

In tactical level of ops,we choose the point no 04 for restrict the flow for sometimes....
Do you know about 'S' wing.....@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @rkhanna....

 

[Hellfire]

In this time what what you are saying as HVTs, may be GOI call them as Decoy now.

You may call it decoy, mirror, whatsoever it may please you.

What exactly is the core definition of a High Value Target in military terms?

Mind you, when we are talking of CI/CT operations involving military effort (as opposed to political), consideration has to be in military terms.

In a purely military sense, a High Value Target is a target, the elimination of which, will effectively disrupt the Command & Control of own/enemy forces, the ability to support it's combat operations and/or resupply the troops/cadres.

Any launch pad, which is there along LC, is a temporary arrangement.

As I mentioned earlier, the 04 broad C2 components of an infiltration effort have inherent redundancies, which means that elimination of 1 will not have major effect on the ability to launch the specific infiltrating team, merely may delay the same depending on their assessment of their 'security' and probability of a successful insertion as also their own Counter Intelligence effort if any.

Another unique aspect of any infiltration effort is that the team size may be as small as 3 to 5 and may be as big as 20 - 25 (although rare now).

In the process of eliminating any of the 04, you will exponentially increase your workload & risk to 'asset(s)', in terms of preparing a plan to eliminate these HVTs (as defined by you), then try and eliminate the redundancy (after identifying the target), then preparing & executing a plan for successful exfiltration of your asset(s), risk in identification of your HUMINT asset by the enemy Counter Intelligence teams, and catering to an unsuccessful attempt, trying to identify the next designated launch pad and repeating the process. All to delay the infiltrating team - not eliminate the fighters, who can be switched to alternate C2 grid quickly.

Now, if you leave these "HVTs" in-situ as is and you allow the launch to proceed, you have the option of eliminating the infiltrating team (whatever size it may be) as they concentrate at launch pad prior to infiltration, you have the option of allowing them to cross LC and ambushing them on own side, or you have the option of eliminating them on the other side of AIOS. All of this will allow you to, theoretically, eliminate all the terrorists of the actual infiltrating team, reducing the number of fighters available to the group, with bare minimum complications for your planning and execution.

So,GOI is not stupid to eliminate such threat when it is purely beneficial for us...Kashmir is not a battleground now,it is like a playground for both the forces...some times they won or sometimes we....

As an observer you may feel it is not a battleground, but for the soldiers, whose life is at risk every moment he/she is there, it is. It is playground only for those who sit comfortable in their chairs in their secure houses/offices/rooms.

In tactical level of ops,we choose the point no 04 for restrict the flow for sometimes....
Do you know about 'S' wing.....@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @rkhanna....

Tell me something, do you have any clue how an insertion across LC takes place? Or about the topography of the region, the limitation in axes of advance in mountains & constraints placed? Theory is quite different when discussed here, from the 'practical' application on the ground.

No, I do not know 'S' wing. What is this wing?